14 month lab, stealing problem

[KyleH186]

I have a 14 month old lab that I have raised since 6 weeks old. He lives with my me, my parents and my brother. He spends half the year at college with me also. Since I have been home for the summer, he has increased his stealing tendencies. He is a pretty well behaved dog other than his stealing. He will take shoes, glasses, plates, pictures, wallets, phones, anything he can get his mouth on. He used to steal things occasionally but never this bad. Let me give you a picture of the situation:

He takes the item and goes somewhere to chew on it, or brings it to us to flaunt it. We chase him around the living room in circles, until we take the item from him and scold him. We then make him lay down, and he will put his head down and act like hes sorry. Sometimes thats the end of it. Other times 5 minutes later he has something new.

This happens about 5 times a day, and for some reason tends to happen right after he comes in from being outside for a walk or going to the bathroom, but not always.

If the item is soft like a sandal or a paper plate sometimes i will hit him on the rear end with it softly but enough to make a noise or let him know we arent happy. I don't know if that is making things worse, but yelling at him is not helping at all. Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Charliesmommy]

Yelling, chasing and hitting are not going to get you anywhere - all of these things will just make him run from you and increase the problem.

First, you need to dog-proof the house. Don't leave things lying around that you don't want him to have.

Second, you need to teach the "leave-it" command and the "drop-it" command. I am not a trainer so I will leave it to those more qualified than I to chime in here and give you some instruction on those. But most imporantly, please don't hit your dog with anything - even a paper plate, as it will just make him hand shy.

 

[KyleH186]

I can assure you my dog is anything but hand shy but I will stop hitting him with paper plates just because it hasnt seemed to help anyways. He absolutely already knows the drop it command, along with a ton of other useful commands. The problem is he only obeys them when he wants to obey them, and no amount of positive reinforcement training with treats and praise has been able to change that. My dog is extremely stubborn and strong willed when it comes to a few things such as stealing. My dog wears a prong collar most of the time, and i give him a stern yank on that when he misbehaves. However, I think my dog actually enjoys the thrill of stealing the item and the chase, despite whatever punishment comes down. Hes a pretty big dog so dog proofing the house can only go so far, he can reach just about every counter, desk and table in the house.

 

[Charliesmommy]

Oh my. Doberluv! Otch! Help!

 

[Christin Luvs Dogs]

I think it's important to remember that dogs only do what works for them, so obviously the pay off for "stealing" stuff is greater than the displeasure you show him. I agree that any type of spanking is going to be unproductive. Also, I have to disagree with the yanking on the prong collar since all that does is teach him to wait for the yank. (if it helps at all)

It is very good that he knows drop it etc, but my greatest concern is why he is doing the behavior so frequently in the first place. I suggest you start by evaluating how much exercise your dog is getting. Also evaluate the boredom factor. In my experience, the type of stealing behavior is usually directly related to the amount of exercise and mental stimulation a dog is receiving. Even if you feel that what you are providing is sufficient, it may not be working for him at this time.

I also agree about "puppy proofing" as much as possible. Any time you are scolding a dog more than you are praising him, we need to evaluate what changes in the schedule, exercise and training need to be made in order to have a happy stress-free life with the dog!

I know it's frustrating...hope this helps.

 

[Herschel]

He absolutely already knows the drop it command, along with a ton of other useful commands. The problem is he only obeys them when he wants to obey them

He doesn't know the commands. Start over and re-train.

If you can't supervise him directly, keep him crated (with chew toys, treats, etc.) to prevent him from stealing things.

 

[otch1]

Hi Kyle... a 14 month old Retriever is a lot of work! If this problem seems to be much worse in your parents home than it was when he's with you at college, evaluate why. Did you confine him while you were in classes but now give him run of the house at your parents? Did you have roomates and others who'd interact with him, exercise or take him out in your absence, verses a quieter less active environment at your parents? Is he being given an appropriate amount of exercise at your parents? Christin is absolutely right, increasing exercise and hands-on time often makes a big difference when addressing behavioral problems. He's also going from one home to another and while you may not see signs of stress, for some dogs any change in environment can cause a bit of anxiety. Also, note the things he's taking. Small items that have a strong scent of his people on them. Phones, (oils from your hands) wallets, shoes, ect. He's not taking up the carpet or chewing base boards. He's doing things to get your attention and it works. (You chase him) Increase his exercise by throwing a tennis ball, bringing out treats and working on sits, downs, his recalls and "leave it" command. Have some fun with him, wear him out a bit, 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening. Really wear him out, not just a potty break. Then when he comes in, hand him a chew toy of his own and let him go lay down and relax. It's easier to teach him what he should do, verses creating a dog whose rather unresponsive due to swatting, chasing, raised voices. After awhile, these things really mean nothing to him and he'll become very unmotivated to please you. (The stubborn behavior you described.) Try the 20 min. am and pm of really working with your dog, exercising him and fine tuning obedience commands and you should see a difference in a week! Good luck.

 

[Doberluv]

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43023

Read that link. It's very important. You need to put away the things you don't want him to steal. You can spoil his retrieving behavior if you constantly take things away from him. Like the others said, more exercise, more mental exercise too. Obedience training, retrieving games with appropritate objects, prevention of getting the things you don't want him to have. I have a Doberman Pinscher who is taller than average and he too, can reach counter tops and all kinds of places. I have to keep things tidy and put away or he too will be reinforced for taking things. The more that happens, the stronger the behavior will become. It's fun to take things. He's not being stubborn or naughty. He's doing what dogs do. Like it was said, if it works for him, he does it. There's no alterior motive like defiance going on. It's simply fun. You need to redirect him to something else which is MORE fun. Make sure what you have for him to do as an alternative is better than taking your things. And taking your things isn't going to work for him because he isn't going to able to reach them. So, the behavior of getting his own stuff IS what is going to work for him. That behavior will become stronger and stronger while the stealing will extinguish. Like the others said, boredom and pent up energy is what causes dogs to be grabbing and stealing stuff. They're frantic for something to do. I know. My Doberman was a particularly rambunctious puppy. No need for scolding harshly. That will make him shut down and not want to pick up much of anything, so later when you might want him to retrieve a stick or ball or a duck, he will not have developed much interest. Then that wonderful drive that Labs have will be squelched. JMO.

 

[Charliesmommy]

Oh my. Doberluv! Otch! Help!

See, I knew you two could say what I couldn't!

 

[KyleH186]

Sorry I need to give more information.

My dog gets more excerice than everyone in my family except myself. He gets at least one 30 minute walk per day, sometimes 2, and even 3. Every night at around 7:30 p.m. I take him out on the golf course behind my house and throw a kong ball about 100 yards, 20-30 times, along with a kong frisbee. This gets him real good and tired and he will pant for about an hour afterwards. My mom hasn't worked since I was born and gives my dog almost as much attention as I do. My little brother is also home all day. If for some reason all 4 of the people living in the house need to be away from the house we put him in his crate, which he has no problem with as long as we aren't home. (He can't stand it if we are home.) He is ALWAYS under direct supervision or in his crate. He has no shame about the stealing and will do it right in front of us. He will do it in the middle of a play session. Just now my brother was tossing one of his toys around with him in the living room, the ball rolled into the kitchen and he came out with my sandal instead.

If anything my dog gets more attention than he deserves, and maybe that is the problem? I mean i don't know if this even makes sense, but is it possible he is so oversaturated with attention that the moment we aren't playing with him or talking to him he tries to get our attention back?

As far as the change in scenery goes, he stole stuff in college also, but because I have a busier schedule there, and don't have family members to share the responsibility with, I often had to confine him to my room, which meant he had less access to things he could steal (I kept my room like a monk because of him.) We don't keep anything on the floor except for one or 2 pairs of sandals in the kitchen, which are there for convenience purposes. When he steals things from counters/tables it usually happens when someone goes to the bathroom for 30 seconds, or has to answer the telephone.



As far as the commands go, he definitely "knows" them. He is a very intelligent dog, but has a will of his own. He will sit....as long as he hasn't just stolen something. He will drop it....as long as you have some sort of incentive (i.e. a different item, or a treat). However if it is something he has stolen...he won't drop it for anything but a treat, and I am not about to reward his stealing with a treat. He knows come, he knows lay down, he knows shake. As far as re-training "drop it", if you have any suggestions I am absolutely willing to try it.




I don't mean to sound stubborn at all, I have done my homework as far as dog training. I have had a professional trainer when he was 10 weeks old. I have read books, internet sites, watched cesars show, and I browsed these forums a lot when he was a pup.




EDIT: Post took a long time to write, so i will adress doberluvs post also. My dog has a toy box with easy access, and about 30 different chew toys, balls, tug of war toys, bones, etc in it. He uses them all the time, he will bring them to us to throw, or tug, or just ram them into our thigh if we don't feel like doing either (which is rarer than you might think.) As i mentioned earlier, sometimes he will be in the middle of playing with us when he steals something. He is too stubborn/tempted by anything that he knows he shouldnt have.

I dunno maybe it seems like hiding everything that he could possibly fit in his mouth is a) a band-aid solution, b) a huge inconvenience that we should't have with a lab that is starting to become old enough not to be considered a puppy, c) not actually training him to be a better dog, which is all I really want.

 

[squirtsmom]

That dog sounds like a handful, LOL, but a fun one. Hope you get some good advice, like that y ou have already gotten.

 

[Doberluv]

You're right about the possibility of him getting too much attention.....at least for free. Give him some of the responsibility. Have him go through a few "exercises;" sit, down, shake hands, whatever before he gets some of the attention. He's very young still. This is normal puppy behavior...this stealing, especially with mouthy dogs who like to carry things in their mouths, like Labs. Put your sandals away if you don't want him to take them. Don't leave him for 30 seconds unattended if he is able to steal something. Bring him with you or pop him in his crate, whether he likes it or not. Let him out only when he isn't carrying on. I forget (without going back through the posts) if you have him enrolled in a puppy class. (make sure, if you do that it is a reputable trainer who uses gentle methods) It sounds like he's getting a few good, hard runs every day. That is good. What are you doing as far as working on basic obedience?

Nothing changes over night. Like I said, he is a young puppy. Sometimes people envision a well mannered, calm adult dog and that is the goal. But just like humans, babies take time to grow up, go through the various developmental stages to maturity. Your puppy is acting his age. He needs guidance, alternatives, education and maturity. The obnoxious behaviors aren't going to disappear completely anytime soon. My Doberman is really very nicely behaved and well mannered....for the most part. But he, at almost 4 years old still adores getting into bathroom waste paper baskets. Those Kleenexes are impossible for him to resist. I have to still keep mine put under the cabinet. When I'm at someone else's house, it's really embarrassing. I forget. And I wonder...."Where is Lyric? He's awfully quiet." And lo and behold, he's in my daughter's bathroom, knocking over the waste paper basket. Yesterday, there was a big wad of lint from the dryer in there, along with q-tips, kleenexes and thankfully, no unmentionables. LOL. I finally got wise and put it up on the back of the toilet tank. FOUR YEARS OLD. Even adult dogs are something like paedomorphs of their wolf cousins, meaning.....they never completely grow up. LOL. So, brace yourself and try to have a sense of humor. It's the only thing that will save you through this 3-5 year puppy stage. (optimism at it's best)

 

[Tami'n'Charly]

Not alone

KyleH- I can't sympathize with you more!! Your story is mine also. We have a 1.5 year old English Springer that sounds IDENTICLE to your lab. I work form home so she gets A TON of attention, more exercise than 99% than most pets and our house is as puppy proofed as humanly possible. Yet- she steals things at every oppurtunity. And like yours, she has the audacity to to it right in front of us! Grrr...

We also have been diligent about obedience classes. We found a terrific school that only uses positive reinforcement techniques. They are great! We've taken Puppy Kindergarten, Family Dog 1, Famly Dog 2 and are currently enrolled in a Pre-agility Class. She adores those classes and has always been the top of her class Still... no matter how much she knows (which is a huge amount for a pup her age) or how "trainable" she is... she's a force of destruction.

I too think that maybe she gets too much attention and therefore stealing things is just her way to occupy herself in the few moments we don't spend with her. I've been stearching high and low for toys that will keep her busy for an extended time (she's the only dog I've ever met that doesn't love a kong) and I just found one that keeps her occupied for a few hours (just got it last week so hopefully the novelty won't wear off). Here's the link: http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=378&ParentCat=53

So- although I don't have any real advise for you, do know that you aren't the only one going through this. However, if you find something that works... PLEASE let me know! I'd be forever grateful!!

Best of luck,
Tami

P.S. Just in the time it took to write this post- Charly managed to tip over her water bowl (which is WEIGHTED DOWN BY A BRICK) and splash water all over the kitchen. Good grief! All I can say is thank goodess she is so cute, otherwise....

 

[savethebulliedbreeds]

My dog will steal anything in site. He stole a cordless drill, a full length 2 X 4, the couch cushion (not the pillow, the actually couch cushion that you sit on), a hockey skate, the whole hockey bag. You name it and he's taken it.

The thing that I have found that worked the best to keep him from stealing is giving him other things he CAN chew on. Things that he knows he is allowed to have in his mouth. He loves bones, so I got him some of those, and a kong, and another toy (not sure what it is), that he can't destroy. I have not had any stealing behaviour since I gave him things that were HIS.

My other bully, knows the leave it command. She will take things and all I have to do is tell her to leave it. Your dog will not respond to the leave it command if there is no reward for it all the time.

Sit down with her on the floor (put a leash on her if you have to). Take off the prong collar. I do not have a problem with prongs but they are not made to be worn all the time or yanked on. Anyways, give her a toy and let her play with it for a while right in front of you. Then grab the toy, but don't pull it away from her. Just hold it and tell her to leave it. Keep telling her until she lets go. Again. Don't pull on it or it will turn into a game of tug o war. Once SHE lets go, praise her and give her a treat. Do this a bunch more times.

This is what I did for Maisey and if she grabs something she shouldn't have I can tell her leave it from inside the house and she will drop it and walk away.

 

[Dekka]

hmm sounds like he has found out that people will interact even more if he does this. (Dekka gets on the kitchen table if I am on the phone too long. I yell off and bad dog..she gets all excited and wiggly. Its reinforcing to her..she wanted my attention, and she got it. It is a behaviour that works for her (and I am bad and find it funny so I keep doing it )

My dogs when young stole stuff all the time. I just traded them (for a cookie if needed) It got to the point they will steal stuff and then bring it to me to see what they can get for it. (incentive to keep stuff picked up) This actually saved Dekka's life! The following is a true story on why you should teach your dog to trade and that giving up strange exciting things is good..

My mother in law, in some misguided idea that I bake, gave me some bakers chocolate in a glass jar. After it sat in my cupboard for a year or two, I decided to toss it. We live in the country and used to keep our garbage, before road side pick up came about (horray!!), in the back of an old truck. The glass jar must have broke in the garbage, and Dekka being the wall scalling climbing fiend that she is, must have hopped up in the back. I was puttering around the yard, and here she comes (all 12 pounds of her) with 2 oz of bakers chocolate in her mouth, wiggling as if to say 'want to trade?' H3LL YA! I grabbed the chocolate and we ran in the house. If I had had steak thawed I would have given her one. As it was I fed her half of my hubby's lunch meat.

The ones that are older seem to be past this phase.