Why Does Western Medicine Make It Like Pregnancy Is A Disease??

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Baxter'smybaby

Baxter'smybaby

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#61
ACooper said:
I have never read that book, and I am in no way doubting what you are saying Jessie.........but I for one was hounding the Doctor to go home as soon as the baby was out & cleaned up :D Same with my Hysterectomy........as soon as I was coherent, my first words to the doc was, "when can I go home" LOL

I cannot STAND being in the hospital........I don't sleep, I have no appetite to eat, and I am just on edge the whole time. It is not FEAR of hospitals, just a restlessness that doesn't leave until I am home.

I think that many are the same way, and every mom that I know of was anxious to get out of there too.
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I was the same way Coop--went home the day after each of my kids was born. Hospitals are not the place to get rest! I'd rather deal with my crying baby thanks!! I don't fear hospitals--grew up visiting them (mom was a nurse)--then I volunteered and worked in them for awhile as an Occupational therapist. Worked in the NICU--with the premature babies. Have seen alot--guess that may be where my opinions are generated from!
 
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The issue isn't the lack of stay time in the hospital.. it's how fast they push your labor. They give you a short amount of time to give birth from the time you go into labor, and if you can't have your baby quickly enough they give you a c-section.
 
sparks19

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~Jessie~ said:
The issue isn't the lack of stay time in the hospital.. it's how fast they push your labor. They give you a short amount of time to give birth from the time you go into labor, and if you can't have your baby quickly enough they give you a c-section.
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I can't say I have ever heard of that happening. I have NEVER heard of them forcing a c section unless there is danger. and I have known women to be in labour for quite some time and never had a c section.
 
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About a third of all births are via c-section. In 1960, the rate was at around 5%.

I had to write a paper about this for one of my classes, so here are just some bits and pieces from it.

The main element missing from our birthing practices in the United States is care. In Europe, midwives and practitioners will use oil to massage the perineal area, to avoid having to perform an episiotomy. Cesarean sections are very uncommon, epidurals are hardly ever given, and women are taught how to manage pain. Time limits are not set on labor, and women are free to move around during labor as they please.

The medical community looks at childbirth as a way to make money, quickly. Hospitals have their own set of protocols on how they handle deliveries. On page 86, Wolf states: “The nursing staff laughs at birth plans at the nurses’ stations. The joke is that you would believe that you have any power in the hospital to change the outcome.” Hospitals give a time limit on how long you have before your labor is induced and before you are given a cesarean section. The faster a woman gives birth, the quicker they can be moved out of the hospital and another patient can be moved in.

Medical interventions are very commonly used in hospital birth settings. On page 89, Wolf says that it makes more economic sense for women to lie on their backs in agony until they get their expensive epidurals. Because hospitals want women moved out as quickly as possible, a time limit is set for how long they have to give birth. Episiotomies are present in almost every hospital birth. Hospitals also use medications to dilate women, and after a certain amount of time a c-section is performed.

Anyway, here are some articles with statistics on c-sections. I actually just moved here a couple of days ago so I have a ton of stuff that's not unpacked. Otherwise, I would grab that book and give some statistics from it.

http://www.startribune.com/484/story/535492.html

http://www.cds.edu/download_files/wp314.pdf
 
ACooper

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Episiotomies are present in almost every hospital birth. Hospitals also use medications to dilate women
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I can tell you for SURE that I appreciated my episiotomie :D With my first child I was cut end to end and he still couldn't come out........his head made it, then he was stuck and had to be pulled the rest of the way........his shoulders were 2 inches bigger than his head. A straight cut is much better and easier to repair than a jagged rip. Just think about that one ;)

Same goes for my next child........although he didn't get stuck. I much prefer to be cut than ripped.

I was never offered any meds to dialate.........and my last baby is 7. My sister walked the halls of the hospital for over 10 hours, and they never tried to make her take meds either. I guess it depends on the hospital, your insurance, and your doctor.
 
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Yes, but in European countries, women are hardly ever cut and they do not rip because of the care given.

In Europe, midwives and practitioners will use oil to massage the perineal area, to avoid having to perform an episiotomy.
 
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#67
~Jessie~ said:
The issue isn't the lack of stay time in the hospital.. it's how fast they push your labor. They give you a short amount of time to give birth from the time you go into labor, and if you can't have your baby quickly enough they give you a c-section.
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I read a good article about this not too long ago, I'll have to see if I can find it- it was very interesting and alarming at how much hospitals and doctors push the woman to give birth and get out.
 
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savethebulliedbreeds

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Yes and this is the problem I have.

The other day I was watching a show and the woman had been in labor for 7 hours and she was dilated to 6cm. They told her she wasn't dilating fast enough because they say that a "normal" rate is a cm per hour. They wanted to give her a c-section for no other reason than it was taking too long and she refused. An hour later she was fully dilated and had the baby. If she wouldn't have refused the c-section, she would have gone in for SURGERY, because she was taking too long to do something natural only to save an hour.

I was watching another one and a girl wanted to have a completely natural birth in the hospital. Same thing, they said it was too long of a labor (can't remember how long, but it wasn't actually that long) and they said her contractions weren't strong enough and so they said they had to give her meds to get the contractions stronger and closer together. She asked them if she would still be able to walk around while she was getting them to manage the pain. They told her no. She said she didn't even want them meds for two reasons....1, because she wouldn't be allowed to do any pain management on her own and 2, because she said that the contractions would go from what they were to really intense in a short period of time and not giving her any time to adjust to the increasing severity of them.
 
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I completely agree that western meds act like pregnancy is something that needs to be cured...its really sad.

That is why I will be giving birth in alternative birthing center....
 
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Wow..... I guess I am sheltered lol I have NEVER heard of that kind of thing happening.

My brother and his wife have four kids.... my sister in law was NEVER given an episiotimy.... in fact at my husbands daddy boot camp class the Dr stated that they don't WANT to give the episiotimies anymore (at least around here) He said that it doesn't make much sense because most of the time if they are going to rip.... they will rip with or without one.... but if they rip with one they will just have a bigger area to stitch up. So they don't give them around here unless it's an emergency.

As for the c section bit.... how many of those c sections in that stat are elective? They have given women the option to CHOOSE now. If they don't want to go with natural they can choose a c section....

I have more to add but I have to run to work lol
 
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whatszmatter

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There is A LOT of reading out there done by good people in the business of delivering babies. One thing that seems apparent any time I read one is how much of the norm in giving birth goes against what really should be done.

Most women tear because of pulling the baby out too quickly, not because they baby is "too big"

They use pitocin to start contractions or make them stronger. Pitocin is not natural and your body has NO feedback loops to shut it off like it does with its own hormones. So you end up with much more violent and painful contractions than you would normally, that you can't control whatsoever and then come in and ask if you'd like an epidural.

What does an epidural do?? It shuts everything down that the pitocin just got going so when the baby is finally ready to come, your numb and partially paralyzed "down there" and the Dr's need to either pull the baby out of you or get it cut out.

you can pull the head off of a newborn with about 115 lbs of pull, average pull strengths used in the old forcep deliveries was about 95 lbs, tell me that weren't doing major damage. C-sections of Today aren't much better. They reach in, grap and rip that baby out, it isn't a gentle process by any means.

Those that get epidurals often have babies that won't crawl up the mothers stomach to her breast to start feeding. They often have problems suckling, the seem to have a depressed reflex when it comes to the most basic and impt survival skill. In school it was amazing watching side by side comparisons of natural birth and deliveries thru c-section or induction. The difference in that reflex in the newborn was so apparent even if you didn't know what you were looking for you would be asking "what's wrong with that one"

4 out of the last 5 babies born to friends of mine were either induced early or c-section early. 2 were for vacation reasons (c-sections). One was to accomodate the DR, and the other so it wouldn't screw up the expecting parent's 4th of july weekend. Pretty pathetic reasons if you ask me, but I guess its their choice. The other 2 were induced early, one so she could have a few more weeks to get her "shape" back for their wedding that was after the birth, and the other one cause her BP was getting high. 130/88??? I just asked her what they thought her BP was going to do when they gave her the drip of pitocin??? and your body can't control that at all?? what do you think happend to her BP then?

These things they do have a place sometimes, in some circumstances, but they treat every birth like it needs to be timed, controlled by drugs and according to their personal schedules, that's what bothers me the most.
 
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whatszmatter

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sparks you're right about the epistiotomy, but its kind of like the vaccine protocols with vets. All the major vet colleges have been recomending 3 year vaccines, but many vets are resistent to the change and still recommend yearly. Med schools and the people that set up protocols for hospitals have been recomending NOT doing the cutting, and some places are following that, but not everyone, although it is getting better.
 
sparks19

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whatszmatter said:
sparks you're right about the epistiotomy, but its kind of like the vaccine protocols with vets. All the major vet colleges have been recomending 3 year vaccines, but many vets are resistent to the change and still recommend yearly. Med schools and the people that set up protocols for hospitals have been recomending NOT doing the cutting, and some places are following that, but not everyone, although it is getting better.
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Well Like any business (and being a Dr is truly a business.) you are going to have those that are truly great at their jobs and those that just want a quick buck. It's up to YOU to look for a Dr that has the same beliefs you do. Like my OBGYN office is GREAT. They do not EVER push tests on you if you say no. They don't force anyone to go early or to have a c section.... actually as far as I know this office refuses to do scheduled c sections unless it is in the best interest of the mother. for example, a friend of ours is having a scheduled c section because she has a hip problem and just cannot push out a normal sized baby without doing some major damage to herself but she does not have the same Dr I do. I travel over a half an hour to this Dr because they came so highly recommended and they do things the way I like it.

As for epidural..... I don't care what anyone says or what they think.... as unnatural as it may be... I AM HAVING ONE lol. BUT again... as far as I know epidural is a CHOICE and it is never forced by a dr.... especially not mine. It's an extra $400 but it is worth it to me. if it makes the labour a little longer I am ok with that but I just know I wll be a raving lunatic through that pain.... especially if my baby is the size I was lol.... I was 9lb 14 oz. I don't need to feel that thanks.

But a lot of these things we are bringing up as unnatural and say are being forced on women and treated like a disease are in fact the mothers CHOICE to have done.
 
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whatszmatter

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Back when they used to allow video cameras in hospital rooms for births you used to be able to see what actually happened. Lots of cases where they give the drip of pitocin, then when it kicks in and the pain is so great and the woman can't control any of it, they have a soothing dr come in and ask as many times as it take if they need an epidural. Yes its a choice, but I wouldnt' really call it a free choice, they tend to try and direct and steer you to the answer they want.

and they DO force things one you. A very good friend of mine had a birthing plan, discussed the plan with the DR multiple times and was very clear that NO drugs were to be given. Guess what they found out weeks later when they got the bill from the hospital??? She recieved and was charged for a slow drip of pitocin in an IV after the birth.

This has nothing to do with births, but I was in an ER for stitches under my eye a couple years ago from a game of flag football. Never hurt other than sprained ankles in all my years of football, baseball and wrestling, but one game of flag football sends me to the er with a split open face, go figure. anyway, they kept telling me that I needed a tetnus shot, I refused. I didn't need one. the BacT that causes it is found in dirt, is anaerobic and would not live on the face of another human being. That's what caused my open wound. we hit head to head. There was no punture of the skin by something buried in the ground, and usually that bacT is found around horse and cow crap, I was in a city park. Anyway, I was educated and new my rights and as they put the towel over my face and the Dr started stitching, he stopped and told the nurse to "give him that before I get going anymore" and BAM, nailed me with a tetanus shot. So things aren't always a choice, that and most of america feels intimidated questioning their Dr's, especially the older generation cause they were brought up not too, right or wrong, its how it is.
 
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Well.... to be honest.... if you can't make your own decisions because they put you on a guilt trip then how are you going to handle parenthood where the whole thing is a guilt trip? I am sorry but having the Dr's ask repeatedly is not enough reason to just give in if you are really true in your convictions. To be honest.... if I knew everyone would give me what I want if I asked enough I would keep asking too.

As for your friend who received the drip unknown.... what did she do about it afterward? I certainly wouldn't have let it slide. and what did you do after you received the unwanted shot?

But again.... we seem to have brought all this on ourselves. As a Dr I would rather give the tetanus than not and risk you getting an infection and coming back to sue the Dr saying they didn't give you the shot. Either that or they are going to have to start giving a waiver for everything you decide to not have and then everyone will complain about all the paper work.

But I for one am having the epidural as soon as they will give it to me. It will be prepaid for lol. I want it and I am going to get it.
 
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whatszmatter

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it doesn't matter what the dr wanted, its my body, and I told them NO repeatedly, they waited till I had a towel over my face and an needle in my face with stitches hanging out to jab me when I was vulnerable. I filed complaint and the nurse and dr were "repremanded". All they did for my friend was take the charge off the bill.

Do you get a tetanus shot everytime you cut yourself??? Hell NO, why cause there isn't that great of a risk, and those shots aren't that safe. the overall risk of tetanus has gone way down, not because of vaccines, but because we don't have the horses and cows all over like we once did.

as a Dr he should know that and respect my decision. Just cause he has one fear, doesn't override his duty to treat me or a pregnant woman with respect for their decisions. as for epidurals, they have no place but to to take pain away, and in the end make birth more difficult, they do not make it easier.
 
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sparks19

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whatszmatter said:
it doesn't matter what the dr wanted, its my body, and I told them NO repeatedly, they waited till I had a towel over my face and an needle in my face with stitches hanging out to jab me when I was vulnerable. I filed complaint and the nurse and dr were "repremanded". All they did for my friend was take the charge off the bill.

Do you get a tetanus shot everytime you cut yourself??? Hell NO, why cause there isn't that great of a risk, and those shots aren't that safe. the overall risk of tetanus has gone way down, not because of vaccines, but because we don't have the horses and cows all over like we once did.

as a Dr he should know that and respect my decision. Just cause he has one fear, doesn't override his duty to treat me or a pregnant woman with respect for their decisions. as for epidurals, they have no place to to take pain away, and in the end make birth more difficult, they do not make it easier.[/QUOTE]


I'm Ok with that. You see it is MY choice.... just as it would be my choice NOT to have it and no matter how much "pressure" I feel from anyone it will be my choice in the end. I know me.... I'm not worried about "difficulty"... in fact THAT is a funny word to use in regards to pregnancy. Is any delivery "easy" ? As far as I know it all SUCKS. and what do you mean they have no place to take pain away? If delivery is longer I can handle that.... it's the excruciating pain I can't take. Some women can do it.... and I commend them for being able to do so. I cannot. and I will not if I don't have to. Therefore I have made the choice to have it and no one is going to make the decision for me. I know what it is.... I know what it does..... unlike too many people I have informed MYSELF on the pros and cons of all my options and have made an educated decision on what I want. I will not rely on someone else to educate me about it (IE the Doctor or the nurse. they may certainly give their input but unless my life or the baby's life is in danger the decision to have the epidural is MINE)

As for what happened to you and your friend.... yes that is very unfortunate and no there is no excuse for it and fortunately not all Dr's are this way. But we are all free to "shop around" as far as Dr's go. In your case it was likely an emerg Dr and you got to see whoever was available first, in the future I would refuse any service from this Dr if he ever comes in to treat you for anything else. But I definately have a choice as for my OBGYN or if I want a midwife or whatever else. I made my decision based on what I wanted and what I felt was best for me and my child and I found a WONDERFUL office that shares my feelings. Of course, since I am paying cash for my delivery I also feel I have more control as to what I want because it is not being automatically billed to insurance. Everything is pre paid (unless an emergency c section is required) so it definitely gives me a feeling of more control over what kind of care I receive and don't receive.
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savethebulliedbreeds

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Wow, whatszmatter.....you really know your crap lol.

I think what he/she? was saying about an epidural not having a place in pain management is the fact that if natural births (no drips, hooked up to IV etc.,) were more common the need for epidurals would be reduced dramatically. There are a ton of great ways of managing pain by yourself, without drugs, unfortunately you can't do these things if you are stuck in a hospital bed, strapped to things, laying flat on your back. Being flat on your back during labor will make contractions excrutiating. Where as with natural pain management, you can get up and walk around, use different positions, use the birthing ball, massage, sit in a warm tub, etc. All these things will make contractions actually quite manageable. Also the other benefit is natural pain management is that the labor tend to go more quickly thanks to gravity.

I am not saying sparks, that you shouldn't have an epidural because that is completely your choice. It sounds like you have a great team of doctors so you are lucky. Unfortunately not everyone ends up with great doctors.

I live in Canada, Saskatchewan to be exact. I live in the province that started the whole don't pay for healthcare thing. We don't pay to have babies, or have surgery, or go for a checkup or an emergency visit. So why do they pressure us to do things? Because everything they do they get paid from the government.

I was actually talking to a midwife a while ago and the doula she was training to be a midwife lived just 5 minutes from my town. She was also trying to find a doctor that would not do a million tests, not put her on iv etc and she was also having trouble finding one. (I should say that she was 6 weeks from her due date when she moved here). I am not sure if she did find one that would work with her or not but if she did I am going to go to the doctor she used for sure.
 
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I completely agree, Jaclyn. It is completely unnatural to give birth while laying on your back... even the laws of gravity tell us this.

Technology is becoming too big a part of childbirth, and women are being rushed through childbirth become of medical intervention.

So many people believe that c-sections are very rare and almost never occur. Many healthy women who end up having c-sections believe that their situation was unique and it happened because they needed it.
 
sparks19

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But again Jaclyn, having the epidural or being able to move around and do your own pain management is really your choice.... it is not forced on you.

If more women took classes that teach how to manage their pain and their alternative options they might not feel so "forced" into technology. I however, very much doubt my ability to "manage my pain" lol. it's never really been a strong suit of mine ;)
 
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