Is it DANGEROUS? Owning "intact" males

Red_ACD_for_me

Ruled by a RED boy!
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
2,922
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts, Boston
#1
What do you think? Is owning an un-neutered male asking for trouble are they really more aggressive? I have read some statistics before that stated that intact males are the cause of most human attacks as well as dog. I'm going to open another can of worms by asking, is it more dangerous to leave a more guarding "aggressive by nature" dog intact? Ex. Fila, rottweiler, pitbull (more dog aggressive than human), GSD, Cane Corso, etc. etc. as opposed to a golden or a lab which tend to be more layed back by nature. Here in Boston a few years ago we had a summer of pitbull attacks on humans and all were done by "intact males". What is your opinion on this subject. I posted an article that has the statistics:

Male dogs are more aggressive than females, and most of the aggression is by intact males. Male dogs accounted for 70% - 87% of the attacks studied, and 60% were unneutered males. Readings in Companion Animal Behavior. Victoria L. Voith & Peter Borchelt. (1996: Trenton: Veterinary Learning Systems) pp. 226, 235
Public Health Reports: The Ethology of the Dog Bite. A. M. Beck, H. Loring, & R. Lockwood. (1975)
A Study of Animal-to-Human Bites by Breed in Palm Beach County, Florida. D. L. Moore. 1987.
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
1,106
Likes
0
Points
0
#2
I can't answer based on Statistics b/c i have never looked at any research on the subject.
Going on personal experience.......Bailey is "Intact" and isn't aggresive at all.
 

Boemy

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
2,481
Likes
0
Points
0
#3
There is definitely a higher possibility of aggression, IMO. That's not to say that EVERY intact male is aggressive, but it is definitely more of a risk. I would definitely neuter a male unless he's a show dog . . .
 

Red_ACD_for_me

Ruled by a RED boy!
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
2,922
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts, Boston
#4
I can't answer based on Statistics b/c i have never looked at any research on the subject.
Going on personal experience.......Bailey is "Intact" and isn't aggresive at all.
Caren, Cai isn't neutered yet either but he is getting done by 18 months. I have noticed him having more of an edge to him as he is getting older and starting to feel his oats so to speak.
 

BostonBanker

Active Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
8,854
Likes
1
Points
36
Location
Vermont
#5
Obviously, my own experiences color my opinion on this, but I think it is taking a serious risk to keep any male dog intact into adulthood. I think they do have more aggression issues. A acquantence, who really should have known better, kept her large-breed dog intact until it was a year for a couple of reasons; this dog is supposed to be bred to be very mellow and gentle, and it has multiple bites on record (and a few that weren't ever reported).

You also have to take into account the dog issues that result. Even if your intact/late neutred male is wonderful with other dogs, that vibe can set off many other male dogs. Another friend has a late-neutered male who will fight intact males.

I know there are some health concerns related to neutering at traditional ages, but I will never have a male dog intact after six months.
 

Wiggle Butt

Love my Labs
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
171
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Florida
#6
I think aggression has nothing to do with if the dog is intact and everything to do with the owner and how s/he trains the dog.
 

dogstarsleddogs

The dog is never wrong!
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
605
Likes
0
Points
0
#7
I've had my share of fights with 2 intact males. We recently have gotten one neutered, and that has calmed him down a bit. But on the other hand, those 2 males are very dog dominate, so thats basically asking for serious trouble.
But, females can be just as aggressive as males. Aurora is quite dog aggressive (sweetest thing to humans though), and she has to be introduced to new dogs quite slowly. Once she has been introduced, they're friends for life.
Really, it all depends on the dog though.
 

RD

Are you dead yet?
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
15,572
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Ohio
#8
I have a 2 year old intact male. I have only seen aggression from him once, and I feel it was somewhat justifiable as he was threatened by another dog.

He is wonderful with people and has never shown aggression to a friendly dog. He will defend himself if he is threatened but he is not the least bit aggressive.

I don't feel that aggression towards humans has anything to do with whether or not the dog is intact. Dog-dog aggression, particularly male-male aggression, is more common with intact males but I would never say that keeping a male intact makes him more aggressive to humans than he would be if he was altered.
 

elegy

overdogged
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
7,720
Likes
1
Points
0
#9
Male dogs are more aggressive than females, and most of the aggression is by intact males. Male dogs accounted for 70% - 87% of the attacks studied, and 60% were unneutered males. Readings in Companion Animal Behavior. Victoria L. Voith & Peter Borchelt. (1996: Trenton: Veterinary Learning Systems) pp. 226, 235
Public Health Reports: The Ethology of the Dog Bite. A. M. Beck, H. Loring, & R. Lockwood. (1975)
A Study of Animal-to-Human Bites by Breed in Palm Beach County, Florida. D. L. Moore. 1987.
i personally think it has less to do with testicles and more to do with the types of owners who choose to neuter and not neuter their dogs. people who are looking to own tough "mean" dogs generally don't neuter. they also don't train, and they encourage aggressive behavior. stuff like that.

it's too simplistic to look at just one aspect of dogs who attack.

i do think that neutering can help with certain aggression issues, but there are plenty of aggressive neutered dogs, and plenty of aggressive females, just as there are plenty of intact males who aren't at all aggressive.
 

bubbatd

Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
64,812
Likes
1
Points
0
Age
91
#10
I really think it depends on the breed and socialization . I had both males and females ... ( Goldens ) .... neither were aggressive , but the females could be more " bitchy ". Personally , if I had either male or female of what could be an aggressive breed ,,, I'd spay or neuter.
 

Zoom

Twin 2.0
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
40,739
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
41
Location
Denver, CO
#11
I believe it has a lot to do with upbringing and the particular dog. Sawyer was a late neuter (around 18-20 months old) and he's never shown any aggression of any sort beyond what is expected of an Aussie...which is probably more work attitude and less aggression.
 

bubbatd

Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
64,812
Likes
1
Points
0
Age
91
#12
My neighbor ... down 4 doors, has a beautiful male Rottie ... as a pup he played with Chip ... then could kill !! I've talked to the owner about neutering , but he wonders about breeding ! He walks the dog with a stick in his hand to correct ....The dog is now almost 3 . He's never been to obedience ... thankfully an inside dog . but chained out occasionally . It's so sad , as this would be such a wonderful companion dog had he been lead towards it .
 

Ashlea

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
962
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
42
Location
South Africa
#13
I agree that it has more to do with an owner. If I had an intact male I would not allow aggression. Full stop. I am Alpha and will not tolerate any sort of upstarting. Unfortunately, allot of people, men especially, do not neuter their males because of the macho factor. They are also more likely to tolerate aggression in their dog, thinking it is cool and therefore allowing the dog to become above his station.
 

Red_ACD_for_me

Ruled by a RED boy!
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
2,922
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts, Boston
#14
Male dogs are more aggressive than females, and most of the aggression is by intact males. Male dogs accounted for 70% - 87% of the attacks studied, and 60% were unneutered males. Readings in Companion Animal Behavior. Victoria L. Voith & Peter Borchelt. (1996: Trenton: Veterinary Learning Systems) pp. 226, 235

Obviously, if these statistics exist then ALOT more people own "intact males" who shouldn't because 60% is high. I know a couple of years ago with the 6 pitbull attacks in Boston one summer that the statstics showed then that it was 74 % who had been intact cause attacks. Not sure if that was the case statistic for just Boston alone though.
 

weylyn

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
150
Likes
0
Points
0
#15
i personally think it has less to do with testicles and more to do with the types of owners who choose to neuter and not neuter their dogs. people who are looking to own tough "mean" dogs generally don't neuter. they also don't train, and they encourage aggressive behavior. stuff like that.

it's too simplistic to look at just one aspect of dogs who attack.

i do think that neutering can help with certain aggression issues, but there are plenty of aggressive neutered dogs, and plenty of aggressive females, just as there are plenty of intact males who aren't at all aggressive.
I couldn't agree more. I have an intact male dog and he is as mellow, if not more mellow, then my spayed females.
 

Amstaffer

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
3,276
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Milwaukee WI
#16
I do think intact males have a tendency to be more aggressive but I think that is only a small part of aggression. The "intactness" of a dog aggression can be raised by a nearby female dog in heat. Interestly that can have two affects in both directions.

The male can be more Dog aggressive towards other males (competition) but complete absences of aggression toward female dogs even if they are not in heat. I saw a female (spayed) attack and draw blood on a male dog who was all "Horned" up because there was a female in heat and he didn't even care. He was so worried about finding his soul mate, that he didn't even growl.

Male dogs that smell a female in heat will also (sometimes) ignore their guard duties towards strange humans. Male dogs all seem to handle this differently.

Personally, I have owned three male dogs in my adult life. 2 Rotties and 1 AmStaff (Sal) and none of them were aggressive. The Rotties were good watch dogs but they like other dogs and loved strange people.

I also keep the two male Rotties together from puppyhood and they wouldn't even fight over a female in heat that was right in front of them. Moose the oldest was interested in the girl dog and Bear the younger one was interest in where the girl dog had recently been.

FYI...I never let them mate, they only ran accross my father's female dog in heat once or twice and we were right there to keep them moving and seperated.

In the end I think (like others have said here) that how you raise and socialize you dogs will matter the most with regards to aggression.
 

Saintgirl

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
941
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
47
#17
Nature and nurture both have a role to play in intact male aggression. Uncountable studies have been done with all species of animals including dogs to study the behavior of aggression especially in males. Aggression serves as an important function of both individual survival as well as procreation potential. Procreation potential only is a driving force in the intact males. We all know what would happen if you put a pack of the sweetest intact males in a room with a bitch in season, and it wouldn't be pretty.

Of course responsible dog owners would never allow their beloved intact male into an environment like that. We would also put the time and energy into training our dogs acceptable behavior, so this is where the nurture comes in. Our furbabies are animals, born with canine behaviors, not human ones. We have to teach them.

But if an intact male is not around other intact males or a bitch in season do they potentially have more of a risk factor for aggression? I believe that they do, again because of nature. There is a definate correlation between the outward expression of aggression and the hormonal effects of testosterone. Altered males do not have the surge of testosterone that intact males have. A study sited by Katherine Simpson in her article The role of Aggression for the Mcgill Journal of Medicine talks about intact male dogs and altered males. The castrated dogs showed a lower tendancy for aggression, however when they recieved hormone replacement therapy to bring their levels of testosterone back up the tendencies for aggression also raised.

Testosterone is not a reason that the aggression occurs, but it is a trigger for it to become more likely. We all know that some dogs are more dominant by nature than other breeds. These dominant breeds are also going to react more dominantly when they feel aggression.

So in short, yes, I do believe that an intact male is going to have higher tendencies for aggression than an altered male. The way to control it is to have educated and knowledgable owners of intact males. Unfortuantaley most, not all, cases of owners of intact males are not educated on the pros and cons of having their male altered.
 
W

whatszmatter

Guest
#18
I haven't read all the responses, but I think it has as much to do with who owns them as if they're intact or not. Most people that have intact males used for stud service and are working dogs or in quality show programs, I rarely hear of a problem with them. Most un-altered dogs that aren't working or quality studs, are owned by macho wanna be's that want a tough dog, treat the dog poorly and leave them intact cause they want a tough dog, or they are still intact cause they're too lazy to do anything with the dog, let alone spend any money on it to get fixed. In most cases I think it's still lazy, or inept owners that are causing this problem, not the fact that they are altered or not.
 

Buddy'sParents

*Finding My Inner Fila*
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
25,377
Likes
0
Points
36
#19
I think it's a combination of not being fixed and having poor owners.

Taking our recent incident at the dog park as an example...goldens are "supposed" to be so gentle and loving dogs (this is what everyone said after the **** dog attacked Buddy). This dog was not fixed, nor was it trained..at least not very well.

On the other hand, I know an owner of a Cane Corso. The CC is very well trained (the most obedient dog I have ever come across) and he is intact. He doesn't cause a problem...ever. But, I firmly believe that is because his owner cares a great deal and trained his dog very well. If only everyone could be as responsible as that.
 

BlackPuppy

Owned by Belgians
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
674
Likes
0
Points
0
#20
I have an intact 4 yo mixed dog. He's very sweet, loves people. People think he's a GSD because of his pointy ears. He's definitely not. He could easily be a Canaan Dog mix. He doesn't bark, but howls. Anyway, I just don't know. Well, after two years he just got into his only fight with another dog.

My dog was on a leash and another male dog came up and harrassed (doggy style). Well, the warning snarls turned into a fight. At one point I got my very obedient dog to walk away, but the other dog bit his tail - fighting continued. The owner of the loose dog came running over and blamed me for having an intact male. Intact or not, my dog was just trying to protect himself from a loose aggressive dog.

Being intact, he does want to sniff everything and every dog he encounters. He is well trained and obeys me very well.

Why isn't he neutered? He was at the vets a week after I got him for that very purpose. The vet called and said they couldn't neuter him that day because his white blood count was very high. Then he got chronic colitus, and then he was lame for 4 months. So far, his health has been improving and before the end of the year he'll have another appointment at the vet to be "tutored"? :)
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top