zoom, have you heard of this breeder?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by dobesgalore, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    If anyone else is familiar, please say! I was looking through the site of vinelake australian shepherds. I like the look of their dogs and puppies but unless I just overlooked it, I can't find anything on contracts and health testing. Do you know anything about this breeder? Thanks in advance!
     
  2. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    When you click to see the boys (for example) if you click on the picture of the dog, at the bottom of the page it shows OFA Hips and Elbows results, plus eyes and other information. Not sure if that is what you meant or not.
     
  3. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    Thanks, I was going sort of fast and missed it. I'll look again. Gonna look again for contracts as well.
     
  4. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    No problem! I do not see anything however about contracts, and I did go through the whole site (I am pretty bored and in class at the moment LOL)
     
  5. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    LOL!! school's fun, huh? (kidding). I may just call and talk to them. I few questions anyway. Alright, now get back to work! pay attention! LOL!!
     
  6. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    not looking at the website, but I know it's common for Breeders to not list their contract on their actual site. They'll talk to you about it once you contact them though.
     
  7. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    I haven't heard of them, mostly because they're straight up showlines. What are you wanting to do with your Aussie?

    It looks like they do mostly confo, with some agility tossed in. *shrugs* Heavy on coat and flash...not anyone I would get a puppy from but that's mostly because they aren't producing the types of dogs I want or like to see.

    They're not bad breeders, just completely breeding away from the original type of Aussie.
     
  8. Sapphire-Light

    Sapphire-Light woof!

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    Beautiful dogs :)

    Hey Zoom so the show lines of aussies have very different temperament?

    They are not as active as the working lines, like the case of the labs? :confused:
     
  9. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    Pretty much...they've been bred to look "showy" and "flashy", which means heavier bone, bigger coat and not as much emphasis on brains and little to none for working ability. And when you take away those traits, you're essentially left with a bob-tailed, merle Golden Retriever. Nothing against Goldens, but they aren't Aussies and Aussies shouldn't be Goldens.
     
  10. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Pretty much like the true, working Border Collie and show Border Collie split.
     
  11. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Though in Aussies it seems like it's more blurred and you can find people producing nice dogs that perhaps just show ASCA and not AKC. Their dogs look much different than those in that site.
     
  12. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    ASCA is the original parent club of the breed and those people who are strictly ASCA usually tend to keep working ability or at least use their dogs for quite a bit of performance and SAR. So yeah, if you're not wanting a dog that is from super hard working lines but isn't the big puffball of the AKC world, find someone who is more involved in the ASCA show ring. Being the original registry though, this is also where the working dogs register.
     
  13. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    Hey! I'm late responding, just had so much going on I havn't had time to think. All I want in another aussie is a pet, I plan on having it ride with me everywhere and be another family member. I LOVE all the heavy coat and flash. My husbands is like that and I have fallen in love with all the grooming and fluffiness. The big coat is georgeous to me. I don't mind paying more either for the "flash", I am just concerned about the under lying health issues. Or lack there of, actually! I want responsible breeding under all the fluff.
     
  14. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    ^^^ if you're just going for a "healthy pet" then a "fuffy show bred" dog would actually probably be better for you. The main complaint about them from people in the breed(whatever breed it may be) is their lack of drive.... but if it's just a pet, than having a less drivey dog can be a very good thing! LOL.
     
  15. dobesgalore

    dobesgalore New Member

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    Thats what I want. I am very "outdoorsy" and love to hike, and just spend time outside doing anything. I'm not going to do any drivey type stuff.
     
  16. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    I don't agree with this statement. Zoom would probably have more too add to this than me, since I don't know as much about Aussie lines/etc.
     
  17. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    I'm not an aussie person, and that statement is a general. The biggest complaint from people who have working dogs and are talking about "show" dogs is their lack of drive. You see it ALL over this forum when splits are mentioned. Most of the people here tend to be more *working* people, so they complain about that all the time. Having less drive makes them pretty much useless in terms of working ability.

    However, from someone who doesn't plan on working their dog at all, and is going at it from a strickly pet point of view, less drive isn't always a bad thing. And just because a dog has less drive doesn't mean it's not going to be healthy. Show breeder still health test and watch their lines. They may not be breeding for the looks or temperment that a *working* person may want, but she's not looking for a working dog. She's looking for a pet dog.

    I also never said that she should buy from this particular breeder(as I know nothing about them), just that going with a "show bred dog" may actually work out better for her situation. I know if I was just looking for a "pet" I wouldn't want a very drivey dog, but I would want a healthy one!
     
  18. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Lack of drive doesn't = lack of energy, though. It's also said all over the forum that working bred dogs = good off switch, which is something you definitely want in a herding breed.

    It is about the temperment that a working person would want, but it's also about trying to keep the breed to its original standard. The OP just has to decide if that is something of importance to her. Lots of working bred dogs go to pet homes, too.

    I'm sure Zoom will chime in and give info specifically for Aussies.
     
  19. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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    No, it doesn't equal lack of energy. But a low drive dog tends to be easier to keep as a pet.

    Also, a reputable show breeder is breeding for temperment as well as looks. But as I mention in my above post, it's a different type of temperment and look as compared to what a working breeder would want. They actually need lower energy lower drive dogs for the ring. This is again, a general.

    And if she's just looking for a pet, than you shouldn't just discount the show breeder because they don't produce good working dogs. That's not a concern for her, so why would she take that as a "selling point."

    She also already said that she likes the heavier boned, flashy look anyway.

    So at this point, she needs to pick breeders and visit them. If she decides she likes the breeder's dogs temperments than that person is the winner.

    And yes, I'm sure zoom will have more insight on Aussie specific things she needs to look out for.

    Who knows, she may find the perfect dog for her from working lines, but she shouldn't discount a show breed dog either. As again, a lot of times the temperment a show only breeder is looking for in their dog correlates very closely with what someone would want for a pet only dog.
     
  20. Zoom

    Zoom Twin 2.0

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    As with any breed or when choosing a breeder, try to go around and visit a number of different ones to really get a feel for the breed. If you do find a breeder you like that is close enough to visit, do so and check out their dogs in person. Most good breeders will also be more than happy to give you the contact information for all their previous puppy buyers, so you can talk to them, perhaps meet their dogs as well.

    If "all" you are wanting out of an Aussie is a wonderful companion and hiking buddy, I highly, HIGHLY recommend you look at your local chapter of ARPH (Aussie Rescue) first, or at least at some point in your searching. This is where I got Sawyer from and I couldn't have built a better dog if I tried. You can find many puppies in there, if that's what you're after, as many people get sucked in by the cute fluff and forget that they've got a herding dog on their hands. However, if this is your first Aussie, I'll go ahead and recommend that you look at a dog that's a year or so old.

    But if the breeder route is really the way you want to go, go visit their dogs if you can, or see if they are going to be at any dog shows near you. My big thing with show dogs is that not only do they lack the herding drive that the breed is intended to have, but that they also lack that all-important "off-switch". I used to work at a busy boarding resort and the pet-bred/showline Aussies that we got in were just...kind of dumb. They were like docked Golden retrievers...loved everyone, constantly bouncing and barking...this is a comical breed, don't get me wrong, it's one of the reasons I love them so much. But they should have a slight reserve to them in public, taking in everything they see, instead of blinding galloping around going 'HIIIIIIIII!!!!!!"

    Sawyer is a very friendly dog in most cases, but his was of showing it is to stand next to a person and leeeeean into them. He goes to work with my BF quite often, who runs a showroom for pool tables and arcade equipment, so Sawyer meets strangers on a daily basis. Everyone loves him and thinks he's just the sweetest dog ever (minus the barking when he's playing with the other staff dogs, lol) but they don't see the pogo-stick bouncing he saves for greeting me.

    I would look for a breeder that has a mix of working/show, or at least trials their dogs occasionally. For that, look more for ASCA breeders over AKC, or at least a dual-registered breeder. That way you're still going to get the bigger coat and flash you seem to want (though why is beyond me, Sawyer has a pretty moderate coat and he sheds enough as is, lol!) but you should still get a dog that has the brains this breed is meant to have. Otherwise, you've still got a very energetic dog, but with little going on up top to help control it.

    The main diseases to look out for in any Aussie or breeding program are hip dysplasia, Collie Eye Anomaly and epilepsy. Hips and elbows should be certified by either OFA or PennHip, they should have a CEA clearance yearly and the breeder should have records or at least be willing to talk about any incidences of epilepsy in their dogs. Not all epilepsy is inherited, some of it is idiopathic (unknown cause) but it is a heartbreaking problem and one that most breeders are working to eliminate. Well, most of the good ones. There are some shady breeders that cull the dogs and hide the evidence of the disease in their lines, mostly limited to BYB's or show line glory hound breeders.

    For this reason as well, assume your dog carries the MDR1 gene until tested otherwise and dont' give them any medication with ivermectin in it. Stick with Interceptor for your heartworm prevention. It's safer in general and covers more than any of the ivermectin based ones do.

    Ok, that's all I can think of for this cup of coffee. I'll add more as I think of it as the day goes on.
     

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