Your training methods (luring/free shaping/other)

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Fran101, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    Depends what I'm doing and what dog I'm working with.

    I lure a lot. Free shape some, but mostly luring. I don't use corrections when I teach - its all fun and upbeat. The corrections come in when I'm proofing.

    But I have come to the conclusion that I hate dogs that don't enjoy learning. I guess I was spoiled with Blackie and then Chloe, because both of them loved working and figuring out new things. Chloe understands how to follow a lure and knows that it is me guiding her to do the correct thing - and once she figures out what that correct thing is, the lure can be pretty much nullified and she's good to go. She also knows that when I'm shaping she should offer behaviors and just try things. When she gets a response, she builds on it. Mike's dogs drive me nuts because they have no desire to learn. They're well behaved and learn house manners well...but good Lord, trying to teach them to even sit is like pulling teeth because they have zero drive to figure anything out. Gracie won't even lure. Its so frustrating.
     
  2. Brattina88

    Brattina88 Active Member

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    This sounds JUST like Maddie and Bailey ;)
    Maddie's used to free shaping - she offers behaviors and usually catches on very quickly. She's spoiled me a bit, I am not used to dogs who don't offer any behaviors at all...
    Bailey sounds a bit like Meg, she'll shut down if she gets upset or frustrated, she can be easily discouraged on some things. She keeps me on my toes and has taught me a lot this past year <3

    I don't use corrections when training. With Maddie, I will occasionally use a NRM. I think it helps her differentiate if she's confused. But never with Bailey.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  3. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Personally, I lure for most things.. free shape for fun/tricks :) and capturing for general behavior.

    I just think luring is faster and easier for cues I want to get into practice lol pure laziness. but I think free shaping is fun and do enjoy doing that with games and tricks which aren't as "important" to me cue wise.

    Capturing I use for general good behavior. Laying down calmly in crates, ignoring food around, sitting before a doorway.. that kind of thing.
     
  4. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I lure a lot... especially for a clicker trainer. :) I find that free-shaping for too long, or for too specific a behavior can frustrate dogs. I do free-shape for fun & for brain work, but I seldom use it to teach a specific behavior.

    I capture as much as possible with fosters and puppies! I love it, because it teaches the behavior really quickly and easily, and makes dogs super eager to offer the behavior even without a command. I capture sit, down, wait, and other polite commands all the time when I start with a dog.

    I don't use corrections. Only verbal interruptions if needed. Then I quickly redirect the dog to do something that I want. As some one who used to use compulsive corrections, it makes the training process SO much more fun for me and for the dog, and it strengthens your bond and trust.
     
  5. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I forgot about NRM. I'll use them with Gusto, almost exclusively when he gets "stuck" and convinced he is offering the right behavior and I'm just too stupid to reward him. A "try again" is his cue to find a different behavior. I can usually "pull" him off his repetitive cycle by asking for a few hand touches and re-cuing, but sometimes he just gets it in his head that he's right.

    Meg, I can finally use them with a little bit, although I rarely have a need. She's really too soft to handle them well, and I've gotten used to not using them with her, so it really doesn't happen much even though she has toughened up a bit training wise.
     
  6. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    Me 5. My free shaping is very little. I have a dog that gets frustrated with free shaping and he ends up more confused than what he was when he started. So we do a lot of luring.
     
  7. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    With Luna I lure a lot because that's the way I taught her stuff for the first 3 or so years I had her, and it's pretty ingrained now so that she gets really frustrated when I try to free shape something. But she's also good at luring by now.

    Keegan I train through telepathy. I start shaping the behavior, get about three clicks in before he says, "Are you trying to get me to do this?" and proceeds to do the entire behavior perfectly. :rolleyes:

    Training service dogs at work we do NO luring. Easy behaviors - sit, down, eye contact, etc. - are captured, everything else is shaped. We use targets quite a bit and occasionally use other prompts, but mostly we stick to shaping. Our goal is to teach dogs to really think about their behavior and get creative in how they do things, which really helps when they are partnered with clients with physical limitations, and shaping is IMO the best way to teach this. Plus it's quite fun. ;)
     
  8. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    Me 6. I use a NRM and Knox is another one that gets frustrated. I've free shaped tricks and such, and his pivot into finish was entirely free shaped, but I tried to free shape his attention heel, didn't work so much. Luring worked much better.
     
  9. Hillside

    Hillside Original Twin

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    Me 7. I'm starting to notice a trend here...:rofl1: I will use a correction if it is a behavior that I KNOW the dog knows beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Edited because CD posted at the same time and beat me and I had to correct my number.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2012
  10. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    I was six! You're seven! :p
     
  11. Hillside

    Hillside Original Twin

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    You posted too quickly!
     
  12. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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  13. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Mostly free shaping, capturing, maybe 1 % luring but typically don't lure at all. Consequences without harsh corrections once a behaviour has been fully trained and proofed. And some NRM'ers, depends on the dog and what we are doing.
     
  14. Hillside

    Hillside Original Twin

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    *snicker*
    *chortle*
    *snerk*
     
  15. smeagle

    smeagle New Member

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    My training method of choice is training in drive. :)
     
  16. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    This thread reminds me of something a herding instructor told me once:

    Whichever training method you use all you are doing is teaching the dog how to learn, whether it's shaping, luring, leash pressure or corrections. They will all learn the rules of how to learn and will eventually understand what you are trying to make them do. Methods are for the trainer, not the dog.

    I teach luring in all of my classes, I have seen some very precise behaviors taught by luring and some very sloppy behaviors taught by luring. I have also seen some very precise behaviors (yes even those dang competition behaviors like heel!!) taught by shaping and targeting and some very sloppy behaviors taught by clickering. I don't believe it's the method that creates sloppy behaviors but the trainer's application of the method. I'm a sloppy lurer, I drop treats, I get frustated, I try to fade too quickly and I make a botchery of behaviors using that method. I'm a fantastic shaper, I can get extremely precise behaviors by shaping, and I enjoy the shaping process.

    Also, I have free shaped sphinx style downs in both Zuma and Zinga and a couple other student's dogs. ;)
     
  17. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    I must say you are a fantastic shaper(all around trainer, I love your skills). I would like to add though it can depend from dog to dog as well, Arnold loves to shape and he's quick too. Sloan is okay but can frustrate with being wrong too often and begins to abandon your game for her own. Backup either freezes up lending himself to an hourlong staring contest or he panics and spastically offers the wrong behavior 500 times over without a hint of change. However, lure or guide a few times and he's obsessive enough to own it. I do try to do some mild shaping with him and I'm constantly trying to teach him how but he's worlds away from a dog like Arnold and I think he always will be.
     
  18. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    I agree with you that some dogs are faster/more tolerant of it than others (hello Zuma!), however the thing I love about shaping is that you can adapt to fit the dog. Classic shuts down extremely easily and even if he's successful in shaping, I have to limit sessions to 2-3 minutes otherwise he will go into a fly-biting episode. So that's what I do! I click for a lot more with Classic, I make sure he's successful, and I keep sessions very short. It takes him a lot longer to learn behaviors than a dog like Zuma, but he's very capable of learning complex behaviors with shaping as long as I remember his limitations/preferences. Quick example, pivoting into heel position took Zuma one 5 minute session. It took 5-6 sessions for Classic. What I'm saying is that just because I train one way with the merle girls, doesn't mean I use those exact methods with Classic even though it can still be classified as shaping.
     
  19. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Eve hates shaping because I'm a shitty shaper, and because I'm a shitty shaper I spend less time shaping and more time luring when I'm training a dog that isn't mine. More time efficient.
     
  20. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    This for me, just swap shaper/lurer. I'm a shitty lurer, so I don't lure which means my dog doesn't learn how to learn by luring. However, I lure when I teach so my skillz are improving... maybe I just need to sit down and have a lure session with the Zoom.
     

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