Your Opinions?

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by CrystalGSD, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. CrystalGSD

    CrystalGSD Member

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    I'm quite bored (and curious), at the moment, and this question just kind of bubbled up into my head. And I'm unsure of whether this is the right area to post this, but oh well.

    So, what are your guys' opinion about breeding dogs specifically for sport? Let's say, hypothetically, there is an Aussie breeder that breeds dogs for Flyball. These dogs have flyball titles only, and their purpose is to be a flyball dog. Assume that these dogs are health tested and all of them are cleared. What is your opinion on this?

    I'm sorry if that didn't make sense, ahaha. The question popped into my head out of nowhere... :)
     
  2. milos_mommy

    milos_mommy Active Member

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    I don't see a problem with it, if they are an otherwise ethical breeder. Preferably, even if I was looking for specifically a flyball or agility pup, I would want a more diverse breeder who's dog's were titled in multiple outlets, but that's a personal decision.
     
  3. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    As long as they've been health tested and such, why not? I mean, that's really all it ever is.... they are bred for a specific purpose. As long as they aren't doing anything that could cause harm to the puppies, there are certainly buyers out there.
     
  4. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    I'm perfectly ok with it. I mean, I don't think every sport breeder is ethical or someone I would go to but the idea of breeding for sport doesn't bother me in the least.

    I would say I prefer them to be structurally sound and have a solid temperament. But I also understand what someone that wants to be competitive sees as a solid temperament might vary from the person who wants a good all around pet.

    So pretty much, I have no issue with breeding for sport as long as the same care is given as breeding for anything else. I also don't have an issue with breeding crosses for sport.
     
  5. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    I have no problem with anyone breeding for sport - as long as they are honest about that, health tested the dogs, and have a clear goal in mind for not only what they want to produce, but the sort of homes the dogs should go to.

    I have issues with people mixing and muddling with things, and dressing it up as something special, though. Like many of the designer breeds out today. "Oh, they make great -insert whatever here-!" And then they go to crappy homes that just keep breeding them with no actual goal or anything in mind. THAT is what I have issues with.
     
  6. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    In order to breed to the breed standard an Aussie breeder MUST test their dog's on stock. Strong herding instinct is listed as part of our breed standard, as long as they are doing that and are keeping that instinct alive and are also being honest and upfront with people that they only breed dogs for flyball I have no problem with it.
     
  7. CrystalGSD

    CrystalGSD Member

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    I honestly know almost nothing about Aussies. This question was purely hypothetical and I just picked the first dog breed and dog sport that came to my head, although I do agree about keeping the dogs original purpose alive.
     
  8. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I don't mind it at all. If it's done responsibly and honestly (health testing etc.. and of course homes for puppies who DO NOT show potentials for that sport) then I don't see an issue.
    Showing is also "a game/activity"..yet people don't seem to have issue with breeding for that.

    I don't even mind if they are tested on stock or not. It's not possible for all breeders (cities, less and less places with sheep, time constraints, other interests etc..) and frankly, come on.. how much of a joke are most of those instinct tests anyway? Chasing sheep? YOU PASS! and how many homes these days are going to be working sheep?

    I wouldn't expect a dal breeder to test out their dogs carriage chasing instincts or a bulldog breeder to test out their bred-for instincts etc.. so it's not like it's just a herding dog thing for me lol

    While they are a herding breed and I would hope some effort is put forth to keep that instinct... personally, it's not really a thorn in my side if they don't and certainly wouldn't put me off the breeder completely.
    The fact that the breeder I chose now tests the puppies herding and herds with her adult dogs seriously had ZERO influence on the fact that I picked her honestly lol so who am I to tut-tut other breeder for not doing it?
    I was way more interested in her show career, obedience, agility, and general temperament than I was on sheep. And I wouldn't blame a breeder for deciding to fore-go it all together and focus their interests (and funds and time) on something their breeding program is actually working toward..

    but yes..honestly with the buyer is paramount. If you don't test your dogs on sheep don't claim they have herding instincts or would make good sheep dogs.
     
  9. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    They should make sure to make no claims that they are breeding "to better the breed" either cause they are not.

    Am I being snarky, yes. Preserving the use of this breed as dog that is able to work is a passion of mine and sometimes it gets to me when people say that the hard work I put into my dogs essentially is useless.
     
  10. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    This as well. I do not approve of claims of "bettering the breed" or breeding "purebred dogs" if they actually have NOTHING to do with breed at all.

    You can't claim to breed the best Siberians, for example, and then produce wooly's, conformation trainwrecks and poor temperament that is ONLY suitable for pet homes. Nope.

    Same with herding breeds. Don't claim to be breeding the best of the breed if you aren't actually interested in keeping the breed qualities.
     
  11. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    Frankly chasing sheep is all I would really expect from most young dogs, it's the ones who are afraid of the stock or lay down in a corner and go to sleep that need to be weeded out not the young dogs who are overly excited about seeing sheep. Does an instinct test mean they will make a perfect herding dog? No, but it is something.
     
  12. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Guess that would depend on your definition of bettering the breed. I would say breeding puppies that grow up to make excellent pets, service dogs, agility dogs, flyball dogs etc..with great temperaments and good health IS bettering the breed. But hey, that's just me.

    Lol I am by no means an expert.. I'm just saying I certainly wouldn't vilify a breeder just for not working their herding dogs on sheep. The world is changing.. as is the pet dog and what people are breeding for. Not everyone has access to sheep and I wouldn't expect every breeder to trek out to goodness knows where to find some.

    I am certainly not going to have some crazy BC Board type argument over this lol then again.. *GASP* I have no problem with show breeders either so I guess that says something.

    I am NOT saying that herding instincts and being able to herd is useless at all.
    I'm just saying that I don't see the need to vilify breeders that don't work their dogs on sheep. It's not possible to some and frankly, it just isn't on my list of things that make a breeder responsible.
     
  13. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    I just want to put this out there that in order to instinct test my dogs I have to drive 5 hours one way so it's definitely not easy or cheap for me to do what I do in case you were thinking I lived on a farm lol
     
  14. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I only look at health, temperament, and drive. If they have what I'm looking for, I don't care what they say they're breeding for I can pretty much train any dog that has the temp and drive I want to do whatever I want.
     
  15. PlottMom

    PlottMom The Littlest Hound

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    I won't vilify any breeder, but I certainly agree that if you claim to be bettering the breed, you're going to try to keep them true to what they were originally meant for. I would not buy a hound from a breeder who didn't hunt them at least enough to make sure they could. I would certainly buy pups out of parents who weren't titled in the woods, but I want to know that they have been in the woods, successfully. I am quite passionate about this subject because I feel like if we start moving away from all that, because "the pet world/market is changing", what's going to truly set them apart as breeds anymore?
     
  16. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    I've also thought "Bettering the breed" sounds good until you really think about it.

    When/if I breed I won't be thinking "I'm bettering the breed!". I'll be thinking about trying to create some awesome little puppies that will go on to fill the niche they were created for whether that be sport, pet, or work. I don't think I'm making it better or worse.

    I mean, breeds change. They were created to fill a need and that need changes as years go by. Some work becomes obsolete for most of the world and other needs emerge. And I'm ok with that. I thin it's sad that it happens and the nostalgic part of me does want them to always stay the same but I think that's naive in the long run. Times change and new voids pop up. Like sport.

    So to me it doesn't have anything to do with bettering or worsening the breed. It's just changing with times and breeding what you see as something that is wanted. Doesn't mean people can't still breed for the jobs the dog was created for. Though, it's getting harder and harder since most people don't use their herding dog for day to day life work on the ranch. And to me, herding trials are sport, no more, no less.
     
  17. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    because it's something that's important to you. And that's great.

    I'm just saying I wouldn't blame a breeder, who was more interested in flyball then he/she was herding, to go 5 hours to a flyball tournament instead of going to work their dogs on sheep.

    Don't get me wrong. I love the fact that my breeder works her dogs on sheep.. I love the versatility involved ..and I thought it was adorable seeing my puppy face the ducks. and I like the basic idea that they have the drive to do what they were bred to do originally.

    But, just saying.. of all the wonderful things I think make a responsible good breeder.. FOR ME, sheep aren't a huge part of that.
    I am much more interested in how the natural drive is molded towards other things and how it's versatility shines through in other aspects. Drive in flyball dogs and steady focus for obedience dogs etc..etc..

    Bettering the breed in your eyes or no..I was much more interested in how these puppies would fit different lives and homes and proving their versatility than I was of them being able to actually work sheep.

    again..just my 2 cents.
     
  18. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    Since a breed is defined by it's breed standard it stands to reason that breeding to that standard is part of it.

    Now that's not to say that a dog has to be a member of a "breed" to be bred, I am all for breeding sport mixes and landraces as long as the proper health testing is being done puppies placed in proper homes and breeders being clear about what they are attempting to produce.
     
  19. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    I bought my dogs from a sport breeder, so obviously I don't have issues with it. There are good sport breeders, there are lousy sport breeders.

    And I don't remotely care whether or not my puppies' parents can move sheep, though the breeder I chose does work her dogs on sheep. It is completely non-applicable to my life. I want a structurally sound, health-tested dog with temperament and drive that coincides with what I want/like and who is going to be interested in playing the games that I want to play.
     
  20. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    This, exactly.

    I don't necessarily mind moving away from the original intent. But do NOT call those dogs the same as the dogs bred for original intent. There should be clear lines dividing them, and those who move away from the original breed shouldn't be piggy backing on everyone else's hard work and screwing it up.

    Get your own circle to run your dogs in, and call them what they are. That's part of the honesty as well.
     

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