Would you buy from a breeder who uses kennels?

[MyHorseMyRules]

It's not that there's any real reason NOT to do it. Myself and a few others are just saying that it makes little difference, in the end. In other words, there's no reason TO do it, either. We're all just saying that a stable dog won't flip if it wasn't exposed to a vacuum from birth onwards, and sees one at 8 weeks. That's all. So for me, finding a breeder that is producing the kind of dog I want is more important than house/kennel/chain spot, as long as the dogs are well-cared for.

I dunno, my Cardi was raised in a home and VERY well socialized. And yep, she has a great temp, is a great performance prospect, and a god awful housepet. Too much energy, too much drive, no offswitch. Luckily I don't care, LOL, and I think it's kind of funny. Her breeder did some things early on that I SUPER appreciate, like encouraging her to retrieve and nurturing her prey drive, that I do feel helped shape her into a better performance dog.

BUT, I know lots of breeders of working dogs (Mals, Dutchies, GSDs, the like) that do all those things, and the pups live in kennels. Some people involved in bite sports will actually tell you that kennels are better for pups, because too many house rules will squash drive (not saying I agree, just pointing out a their way of thinking).

I mean, you have to understand that Lindsey and I have the shared experience of having a woman with a skittish rescue Dobe watch Traveler playing as a 9 week old puppy. She remarked, "What a confident little puppy! He must have been socialized early." And both of us just sat there and thought, "He didn't leave the ranch he was born on until he flew across the world to come here..." Watching a kennel raised pup from parents that are not pets but dogs that have to work to eat (and will be leaving if they don't work) adapt to life as a housepet and sport dog with no problem has strongly influenced both our opinions (if I may speak for you, Linds. )

Like I said, no one's saying there's any reason NOT to raise them in the house, just that we've not found any particular benefit either.

Yeah. What she said. :lol-sign:

 

[sillysally]

It's not that there's any real reason NOT to do it. Myself and a few others are just saying that it makes little difference, in the end. In other words, there's no reason TO do it, either. We're all just saying that a stable dog won't flip if it wasn't exposed to a vacuum from birth onwards, and sees one at 8 weeks. That's all. So for me, finding a breeder that is producing the kind of dog I want is more important than house/kennel/chain spot, as long as the dogs are well-cared for.

I dunno, my Cardi was raised in a home and VERY well socialized. And yep, she has a great temp, is a great performance prospect, and a god awful housepet. Too much energy, too much drive, no offswitch. Luckily I don't care, LOL, and I think it's kind of funny. Her breeder did some things early on that I SUPER appreciate, like encouraging her to retrieve and nurturing her prey drive, that I do feel helped shape her into a better performance dog.

BUT, I know lots of breeders of working dogs (Mals, Dutchies, GSDs, the like) that do all those things, and the pups live in kennels. Some people involved in bite sports will actually tell you that kennels are better for pups, because too many house rules will squash drive (not saying I agree, just pointing out a their way of thinking).

I mean, you have to understand that Lindsey and I have the shared experience of having a woman with a skittish rescue Dobe watch Traveler playing as a 9 week old puppy. She remarked, "What a confident little puppy! He must have been socialized early." And both of us just sat there and thought, "He didn't leave the ranch he was born on until he flew across the world to come here..." Watching a kennel raised pup from parents that are not pets but dogs that have to work to eat (and will be leaving if they don't work) adapt to life as a housepet and sport dog with no problem has strongly influenced both our opinions (if I may speak for you, Linds. )

Like I said, no one's saying there's any reason NOT to raise them in the house, just that we've not found any particular benefit either.

Well, when I am in the market for a bite work prospect lab or whippet, I'll keep that in mind :lol-sign:

Seriously though, if you are fine with a pup raised in a kennel, knock yourself out. However, I prefer a pup I am going to buy be a house pup. It just makes sense to me to have a pup exposed to house stuff early on. We all have things we want in a breeder, and that's one of mine.

 

[Xandra]

Justt popping in to say I'm totally on board with Linds, Jess, Emily et al... I believe that a stable pup should take the crazy new experience of living indoors in stride lol in addition to everything else. Roman was born at a kennel in BFE Alaska, was shipped at 8 weeks... went from AK to Houston TX for a stopover and then to Vancouver, and popped out of the crate a happy camper He adjusted just fine. That's the kind of attitude I like to see when the pup is faced with a novel situation.

Not to say that socializing a pup can do anything but improve it, but, well, if your dog hasn't been well socialized and it's got rock solid nerves you can be reasonably confident that what you're seeing is the dog's genetic "stability."

Another way of putting it is if you have two pups, one that's been heavily socialized and one that's grown up with a hermit, and you stick them through a series of new, somewhat stressful situations, and they both do great, well the dog that hasn't been socialized is at somewhat of a disadvantage- so it's performance is more impressive IMO. Not to say that they couldn't both be equally good genetically, but socialization can cover up genetic insecurity to an extent, and with the hermit dog there is no cover up.

I guess when looking for a pet it doesn't matter so much which way you go, but if I were selecting a dog for breeding I would prefer the pup that is at a disadvantage and that we know is operating more from nature than from nurture. JMO!

 

[sillysally]

Well, I suppose I'm looking at it from a pet owner's point of view. I'm not looking for a breeding prospect. I'm looking for a dog that can happily be a house dog, do well with kids, hang out with the other animals in the house, hang out with us in the yard, go with us on a huge variety of outings, get along well with other dogs, be biddable enough to do some classes and dabble in a dog sport here and there. That's pretty much it. I'm not looking to breed do actual "money earning" work, etc. Since I am looking for a dog that is going to be a family pet, I'd prefer one raised in a family environment. IMHO,the more exposure to a variety of stimuli the better.

 

[Xandra]

Well, I suppose I'm looking at it from a pet owner's point of view. I'm not looking for a breeding prospect. I'm looking for a dog that can happily be a house dog, do well with kids, hang out with the other animals in the house, hang out with us in the yard, go with us on a huge variety of outings, get along well with other dogs, be biddable enough to do some classes and dabble in a dog sport here and there. That's pretty much it. I'm not looking to breed do actual "money earning" work, etc. Since I am looking for a dog that is going to be a family pet, I'd prefer one raised in a family environment. IMHO,the more exposure to a variety of stimuli the better.

Yeah a person can't go wrong with good socialization. Unless it's done improperly, it's only going to improve upon what the pup started out with.

 

[Dekka]

While I agree raised in a house is ideal, if you have no moral objections to dogs being raised in a kennel then I wouldn't write them off. Being raised in a house doesn't always mean well socialized. I know a few breeders who raise their puppies in the house. Away from everything in a room where the pups doing get to see and hear as much as some I know living outside.

I would say if you are getting a pup at 8 weeks its not going to make a lick of difference. If you are getting one at 12 weeks it might make a tiny difference, (if the kennel dogs get to go out and explore and meet new people) if you are getting an older dog it might make some differences.

Seren had never met a non terrier, she gets along great with other dogs. Twist (Dekka's mom) was a kennel dog for 7 years before she came here. She learnt to get long with our cat and was fantastic with Darien (and he was only 4 at that time). If the dog you are getting isn't as stable or has a few issues then it will make more of a difference. If the dog is solid then its not likely going to be an issue.

IME the dogs who have been kennel dogs are the ones who seem to appreciate the comforts of house living much more than those who have always had it.

ETA Twist never had an issue with vacuum cleaners or such. Neither does Seren. I think socializing to people and other dogs is crucial. I don't think the types of noises are that important as long as the pup learns that noise happens and life goes on. That could be a stomping kid, barking dogs, a tractor, or a vacuum.

 

[cliffdog]

It's not that there's any real reason NOT to do it. Myself and a few others are just saying that it makes little difference, in the end. In other words, there's no reason TO do it, either. We're all just saying that a stable dog won't flip if it wasn't exposed to a vacuum from birth onwards, and sees one at 8 weeks. That's all. So for me, finding a breeder that is producing the kind of dog I want is more important than house/kennel/chain spot, as long as the dogs are well-cared for.

I dunno, my Cardi was raised in a home and VERY well socialized. And yep, she has a great temp, is a great performance prospect, and a god awful housepet. Too much energy, too much drive, no offswitch. Luckily I don't care, LOL, and I think it's kind of funny. Her breeder did some things early on that I SUPER appreciate, like encouraging her to retrieve and nurturing her prey drive, that I do feel helped shape her into a better performance dog.

BUT, I know lots of breeders of working dogs (Mals, Dutchies, GSDs, the like) that do all those things, and the pups live in kennels. Some people involved in bite sports will actually tell you that kennels are better for pups, because too many house rules will squash drive (not saying I agree, just pointing out a their way of thinking).

I mean, you have to understand that Lindsey and I have the shared experience of having a woman with a skittish rescue Dobe watch Traveler playing as a 9 week old puppy. She remarked, "What a confident little puppy! He must have been socialized early." And both of us just sat there and thought, "He didn't leave the ranch he was born on until he flew across the world to come here..." Watching a kennel raised pup from parents that are not pets but dogs that have to work to eat (and will be leaving if they don't work) adapt to life as a housepet and sport dog with no problem has strongly influenced both our opinions (if I may speak for you, Linds. )

Like I said, no one's saying there's any reason NOT to raise them in the house, just that we've not found any particular benefit either.

That was a great post.

 

[Southpaw]

It doesn't bother me from a socialization standpoint. Whether the pups are inside or outside, IMO if it is a reputable breeder they will expose those pups to sights smells and sounds outside of their cement kennel. And even if a pup has never heard a vacuum by the time it is 8 weeks old, doesn't mean it hasn't heard enough things to know it doesn't have to be traumatized by a vacuum. And even if it is scared of the vacuum--hey, it's only 8 weeks old, we can overcome that.

My issue comes from the fact that I do not want to buy from someone who keeps their dogs outdoors. When I'm looking for breeders, I want those dogs to be loved, family pets FIRST. And regardless of the billion ways that breeder might interact with those dogs during the day, if they are kept outside my impression will always lean toward the negative. Regardless of what activities I might pursue with my dogs in the future, they are always my companions first and foremost, and I want my breeder to feel the same.

It would not necessarily be an immediate deal breaker, depending on their other practices and what other breeders I have to choose from. But it would make me cautious, yes.

 

[Dekka]

Oh I get that. My puppies are all raised inside. Just saying that inside vs outside isn't a good example of how socialized they will be IME. I know too many breeders who stick puppies in the basement and don't do much with them.

With JRTs its pretty hard to have them all as house dogs. 3 or 4 JRTs is about my limit in the house. Whippets could all live as a huge pack in my house though lol. I might wonder at someone raising whippets outside, but not at JRTs. Though to be fair I met a lot of really delightful whippets on my trip that lived in kennels. Not ideal but they were bouncy happy whippets who would make wonderful house pets.

 

[PlottMom]

Well, I suppose I'm looking at it from a pet owner's point of view. I'm not looking for a breeding prospect. I'm looking for a dog that can happily be a house dog, do well with kids, hang out with the other animals in the house, hang out with us in the yard, go with us on a huge variety of outings, get along well with other dogs, be biddable enough to do some classes and dabble in a dog sport here and there. That's pretty much it. I'm not looking to breed do actual "money earning" work, etc. Since I am looking for a dog that is going to be a family pet, I'd prefer one raised in a family environment. IMHO,the more exposure to a variety of stimuli the better.

Liz does all of that and more, and absolutely nothing useful as far as competition/hunting/whatever and never stepped foot in a house in the four years she lived before I owned her, and that included whelping a litter.

Coonhound people just don't (usually) keep hounds in the house, period. She's a good house dog, rarely needs a leash, goes to work with me (I work with kids) all the time, and loves littler kids too. She flew through beginners & int obe, and beginners & int agility. I still show her on occasion for fun, but she'll never be bred again or be really competitive. Mostly she just goes everywhere with me.

Were I a breeder, I'd probably want to raise my pups in the house, and obviously I already keep all of my dogs in the house... but I don't think it makes a whit of a difference if your dogs have stable temperaments and good socialization...

 

[Maxy24]

Ok, so I am down with people buying from whatever breeder they want so don't take this as an attack as it's not meant that way. But I honestly am curious about this.

If the puppies that are coming out of the breeder aren't phased in the least by being brought into the home after being raised in kennels outside why does it matter? If they aren't afraid of things, bomb proof, stable dogs then why does if they are socialized in the homes make any difference?

Well when getting my puppy I wouldn't know how he has been affected by being raised in a kennel until he's home, so I'd rather not risk it. I'm not saying these people are bad breeders, I just don't want a dog from them. I just personally feel being raised in a house socializes the dog to living in a house with hustle and bustle of house life (assuming they are raised properly in the house, not shoved in the basement), and I feel for a house pet that's important. Others don't think the specific type of socialization matters they just feel a wide variety of experiences is important and that will allow the dog to take on any new experience, and that's fine, different opinions. Others feel genetics trump all, also a different opinion. I don't know which is most right, but I feel that the specific type of socialization is important. I think genetics and a wide range of experiences are important as well, but I think achieving a wide enough range for generalization before 8 weeks is going to be hard, so I'd rather see the types of experiences that are going to be important for my dog's life as a housedog be the most prevalent experiences in the dog's life. but these are feelings and personal thoughts, I'm not saying they are right and you are wrong.

I also agree with those who don't understand why the breeder chooses the kennel over the house, what are the possible benefits? Are there any to the puppies in their opinions? Or do they just not see any benefit to keeping them in the house so choose the kennel so as to not deal with the mess and loudness in their house?

Again I wouldn't consider these breeders bad assuming they do all of the things I like to see good breeders do, I just feel wary getting a dog from them.


However I do also dislike dogs living in kennels/outdoors in general. The reason I would still get a dog from someone who puts their adults in kennels is because they are not my dogs so how they are cared for is not my major concern (just like I would buy from a breeder who used training methods I disagreed with, I assume most people aren't doing punishment training on 8 week old puppies no matter what they do to the adults so if it's not going to be affecting my puppy I don't care too much), they are still being competed with and cared for, and it's gotta be hard to have a bunch of large breed dogs in the house at once, especially when they're all intact and may be of a breed where DA or same sex DA is common. So kennels (or some sort of outdoor containment) are sort of necessary for some breeders. but I don't think they are necessary for litters of puppies.

 

[Kat09Tails]

I also agree with those who don't understand why the breeder chooses the kennel over the house, what are the possible benefits? Are there any to the puppies in their opinions? Or do they just not see any benefit to keeping them in the house so choose the kennel so as to not deal with the mess and loudness in their house?

Space to start with is a major benefit with most kennels being at minimum 6x10 although most people I know with medium size dogs raising litters go 10x10 or 12x12vs the space allowed for an X pen or two in the house. Puppies from the start of solid foods to 8 or 12 weeks are pretty messy. More space allows them to stay cleaner and build healthier social structures - and start to build that grand association for easier crate training, house breaking, etc.

There is also the health component to consider both human and dog. 8 lab puppies in a house can produce an environment within a couple hours that's pretty horrific for air quality. I remember one time with my own 4 pups at about 6 or 7 weeks I left for 3 hrs to go to the grocery store and came home to an odor that would have gagged Oscar the grouch. There was nothing abnormal about it. They just need to be cleaned up.

 

[elegy]

My issue comes from the fact that I do not want to buy from someone who keeps their dogs outdoors. When I'm looking for breeders, I want those dogs to be loved, family pets FIRST. And regardless of the billion ways that breeder might interact with those dogs during the day, if they are kept outside my impression will always lean toward the negative. Regardless of what activities I might pursue with my dogs in the future, they are always my companions first and foremost, and I want my breeder to feel the same.

It would not necessarily be an immediate deal breaker, depending on their other practices and what other breeders I have to choose from. But it would make me cautious, yes.

This is pretty much where it falls for me, too.

 

[Romy]

Space to start with is a major benefit with most kennels being at minimum 6x10 although most people I know with medium size dogs raising litters go 10x10 or 12x12vs the space allowed for an X pen or two in the house. Puppies from the start of solid foods to 8 or 12 weeks are pretty messy. More space allows them to stay cleaner and build healthier social structures - and start to build that grand association for easier crate training, house breaking, etc.

There is also the health component to consider both human and dog. 8 lab puppies in a house can produce an environment within a couple hours that's pretty horrific for air quality. I remember one time with my own 4 pups at about 6 or 7 weeks I left for 3 hrs to go to the grocery store and came home to an odor that would have gagged Oscar the grouch. There was nothing abnormal about it. They just need to be cleaned up.

Pretty much this.

Logan's breeder uses kennels, but her dogs are basically house dogs. She just needs to be able to rotate them through and keep them separated when someone comes into season, etc. She does more with her dogs than most people I know. They go out on daily outings, go with her to work, go herding several times a week. I know a lot of breeders who's dogs are also pets that don't get nearly as much socialization, training, and interaction as her dogs do. Logan is a testament to how well her dogs are raised.

And yeah, the hygiene thing is huge.
There isn't much constructive work you can do with 9 collie puppies trapped in a house. You have to follow them around with a poop scoop just to keep things bearable.

Logan's breeder whelps them in the house. Then the mom and puppies get their own bedroom until the puppies are on solids. After that, they are moved outside to a special "puppy house". She built them their own freaking house! lol. It's heated, has windows, a dutch door so she can open it from the outside and check on them without everyone swarming out, and it has a doggie door that opens into a large roofed run where they have tons of room for free play.

There's no way those puppies could get the quality of exercise they do in their puppy house/pen in a human house. They can't get on-demand access to the outdoors from a human house either. It's FAR easier to potty train them when they're in that setup. She has expens inside the house and rotates a few puppies at a time throughout the day so that mom can get a break and the puppies can be socialized and trained more individually, instead of it becoming a writhing mass of shredded newspaper and feces.

 

[Laurelin]

I often wonder how much is nature versus nurture for my own dogs (Mia versus the other 4). 2 different bloodlines, 2 different breeders, but both raised in the house.

One thing I know is that Summer's breeder's dogs are more friendly by quite a bit and less reactive. Mia is a great, sweet dog with much more drive than any of summer's breeder's dogs but as far as confidence and friendliness is not nearly as well rounded.

How much of that is the fact that Summer's breeder has grandkids that come over all the time and the fact that she's taken the pups on road trips when they're young or that they're taken to the nursing home with her therapy dogs? How much or Mia's aversion to strangers comes from her dam who is also a one person dog? I don't know as much about Mia's breeder's socialization process. I just know that Summer's breeder does as much socialization as possible and her dogs are also the most well tempered, bombproof papillons I've ever met and I've met a lot of them. Then again her dogs are also all therapy dogs so it could also be nurture...Maybe a combination of the two? But her consistency in producing great dogs makes me think at the least.

You get papillons at an older age generally so it makes a bigger difference in them. 11-16 weeks in general so you could be playing a lot of catch up.

 

[Aleron]

I agree with whoever said it depends somewhat on the age of your puppy. If you're getting a puppy at 7-10 weeks or so, you aren't going to see a lot of difference between a kennel raised pup and a house raised pup. Once the puppy is 12-16 weeks though, you can start seeing issues associated with socialization/lack of training if (a big if) the puppies spend nearly all of their time in the kennel with little to no interaction. If the breeder is socializing the puppies, working with the puppies, etc then you aren't likely to see much difference even then. But the less human interaction puppies get, the more issues it can potentially cause. Just being in the house doesn't really guarantee they're getting tons of human interaction though, so you could easily end up with a 16 week old house raised puppy who has socialization issues as a 16 week old kennel raised pup.

I have gotten puppies that were basically kennel raised - they were kept in the basement at night and days the weather was bad and in kennel runs during the day. I didn't really notice any issues in them compared to my house raised pups. I have gotten house raised puppies too and haven't noticed any real differences.

When I have had puppies, they are in the house but they aren't kept as house dogs because well...they're a gang of young puppies. They have a room set up with toys, bedding and potty area that they are in while in the house and an outside pen they ideally will spend most of the day. They are only allowed loose in the house if they can be totally supervised or for one on one work with older puppies. Once they hit a certain age, they are outdoors or crated when they aren't at work with me, out and about with me, being worked with or strictly supervised in the house.

For anyone who has never had the experience of raising a group of puppies in your home, I can tell you I say they are "ideally spend most of the day" in their outdoor pen for good reason. The outdoor pen gives them a much better chance to exercise and explore than their area in the house, especially once they are older than 5 or 6 weeks. It is also drastically easier to keep everything and everyone clean. I think being outdoors for a portion of every day helps to encourage good potty habits, since the puppies become acclimated to pottying outside vs. inside. The puppies are also much, much quieter at night and in the morning if they are able to be outside a good part of the day. And in the house, puppies can get into trouble very quickly. I had a cupboard in the puppy room with my first litter (winter litter) that the puppies figured out how to open and proceed to chew up quite a bit of Fimo clay. Puppies had clay smooshed into their fur, in their poop and it took a couple months to get all the clay off the floor finally. I have seen litters of bored puppies destroy walls, floors and furniture. Not exactly great for your future house dog to learn that tearing walls apart is great fun

I don't really have "kennels". I have a yard divided into three parts - the grassy, open "big yard" (where the agility equipment is set up), the gravel covered, shady "little yard" (where the dogs go to potty and hang out when no one is out with them) and the "puppy pen" which is a fenced off portion of the little yard. My puppies are not stuck outdoors and ignored by any means. But a perfect day with them usually involves them being mostly outside from the morning until it gets dark. They stay in their pen when no one is out with them and when people are out they get run of the small dog yard plus several romps every day in the big yard either with me only or me and Whimsy (the bestest puppy play dog every) plus some work on low agility equipment and some flirt pole chasing. In their pen, they have new things added every few days, open crates, a wading pool that goes from shallow to "deep", usually with some floaty toys in it, chew toys, boards of various widths and heights to walk on, one tippy board and hanging tug toys. Their inside room has a similar set up with toy rotation and all but due to space, much less stuff at any given time and no wading pool - which is such a favorite! They hear cars and people all day in the neighbor's driveway which is right against the wooden fence that makes up one of the long sides of their rectangular pen, as well as the sounds of nice weather in the suburbs (ice cream trucks, birds, other dogs, kids playing, etc). They see and hear cars and people all day from across the yard at our other neighbor's house. At least twice a week people meet at my house for agility training, so they get visitors of all sorts that they can choose to interact with or not over the fence and they usually end up getting treats just for being cute. They also see strange dogs in coming and going without any pressure to interact with them. What do they see and hear in the house? The AC, the TV, the computer, music, a few family members, a few known dogs and sometimes my cat. Not likely to hear a vacuum here - we have hardwood floors And of course, once they've had vaccines they are coming to work with me in a rotation until they go to their new homes.

Wanting a breeder to keep 5+ puppies in the main part of their house from birth until you bring your's home is a bit unreasonable. Puppies are messy, puppies are noisy, puppies are destructive and it's not safe to have them exposed to the other household dogs. And sometimes puppies even escape! While some breeders have a set up that allows the puppies to be kept in the living room or kitchen or bedroom for 8-12 weeks, many do not and that doesn't make them a bad breeder and it doesn't mean that their puppies are going to have issues due to lack of socialization.

That doesn't mean I think it's great for breeders to have kennel dogs that get next to no attention, which in turn have puppies that get next to no attention. I just think there's good reasons for puppies spending time, sometimes a lot of time outside providing the weather is appropriate

 

[Gypsydals]

Depends on the breeder and the breed. Some dogs/breeds do great in a kennel type set up, other do horribly.
Would I pass on that "perfect" pup, just because it was in a kennel set up? Nope, in someways I think after them being in the house for so long, moving them into a kennel set up(with continued socialization) but yet not constant human interaction, may not be a bad thing. Ivan is absolutly clueless when it comes to being outside in the kennel by himself. The only time he was outside in the kennel area at his breeders house is when they where out there with them. So when hes outside he barks, he whines, he cries.
I'm pretty sure Chloe was in some sort of kennel set up at her breeders house. When I went and got her, I did not see NOR hear any of the puppies. And yet she was able to be outside without me.
So I think its a fine line between being ok and not ok, being done right and being done wrong.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I honestly think both are important. We whelp and raise the puppies inside but they also get outside time in the runs and with the adults (supervised as the adults can get rough sometimes) so that they are exposed to everything possible. It makes no difference to me whether they are going to be strictly indoor dogs or not. We find this gets them used to so many more experiences and allows for a much less reactive dog when something new comes along.

Inside they get the personal attention from the family and visitors that come as well as exposed to anything in the house that might be day to day and a start on their house manners. Outside they get used to neighbours coming and going, different cars showing up, seeing how my adults react to situations, other dogs barking, etc. Making them I hope pretty stable dogs going to their new homes.

I won't rule out a breeder simply because the dogs live in kennels ( most breeders have more then a couple of dogs at various ages and like most people not everyone gets along) so instead of crating they have kennel put outside but I also don't lean towards breeders that only raise and keep dogs in a house setting as the first bit in our house would put them into shell shock, having the new experiences that staying outside would bring. I like a happy medium that is raising them as close to what I will be requiring of them I guess is the easiest thing to say I look for.

 

[PitBullLove]

Yes, I would. For me it depends on the breed, and the breeder. But this is a heated subject for me because a few years ago I started working with a few breeders in order to get more experience with the show world and handling and training dogs. I saw a LOT of kenneled dogs. I knew a breeder who kept all 15 of his dogs in crates in his garage, closet...in a one bedroom house. Sometimes 2-3 litters on the ground, puppies waiting to be shipped. They couldn't be out together due to aggression issues. This breeder had a good reputation, sold his puppies for $2500 each. These dogs provided him with his morgage, his food. They were beautiful, incredibly stable and true dogs that everyone loved and would pay that much money for. But they lived in crates 23 hours of the day. They used to be able to come out and play, but city laws limited the number of dogs he could have, and neighbors prevented them from being able to come out and play, to bark, to work the flirt pole. After this breeder's reputation got brought up enough to where he no longer had to show off his dogs, their life went to ****. The puppies didn't get socialized or worked with, they just got sold. The last litter I saw was hand shy, I didn't like the dogs at all. The dogs were no longer in good shape, and the older puppies were afraid of the hardwood floor. Another was terrified of other dogs. And everyone looks at this breeder like he is all high and mighty. It's really heartbreaking. I don't understand sometimes how some breeders claim to LOVE the breed, and then treat the dogs this way. Or how some breeders will say, "Well it's different to you, they're brood stock to me". SO? They should be treated WONDERFULLY and RESPECTFULLY. I hate how it turns into a business for some, the money gets to their head. It's brought a whole new image to me.

After seeing these things I'll be incredibly picky. It comes down to the breeder. It's not the kennels for me, it's the person breeding the dogs, their goals, what they do with their dogs, the dogs themselves. I want to see the setup, the dogs, see them work. I don't want a dog shipped to me, because one can put up any kind of image they want. I agree with what GypsyDals said, "I think its a fine line between being ok and not ok, being done right and being done wrong".

I apologize for going off, this has been weighing heavily on my heart for the past year.

 

[JennSLK]

Solo was almost 2 when I brought her home. She had spent her entire life in a kennel except when at shows. Had I know exactly how much time she spent in a kennel I wouldnt have bought her. I agree that getting a puppy from a kennel is different from getting a adult or older dog from a kennel.

Solo has a great temperment. However, she is still NOT house broken, and had no basic life skills. She is timid with new people. Once she gets over it she is fine but is not the typical loves everyone beagle.

It was like starting with a puppy except everything look way longer to train or desensitisde to. Since she had little stimulation as a puppy she is hard to train. It is almost like a child who was starved for attention, she is slower than her peers in picking things up. She is just "off"