Working bred, Performance Bred

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by HayleyMarie, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    Whats the difference?

    If you were getting into agility would you look into a working bred dog at all? or would you stick stricktly with performance?

    What is considered Performance and whats considered working?

    Reason I am asking these questions is because If I look more in the Cane Corso I don't want a dog sticktly from show lines, but I finding it hard to find a breeder that has a happy medium. I have found some breeders that do Schultzhund and or agility, but alot of their dogs I dont find attractive.

    Finding a breeder is hard work lol
     
  2. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I've found that working breeders tend to breed for a driven but more even temperament. They are bred to work, and do their work well and for a while and have an "off switch" so to speak. Stability, health, drive, workability, reliability.. that kind of thing.

    while sport breeders are a bit more about the GO GO GO.. the extra push, the speed, the agility. For sports that are fast paced, timed, and not as frequent as say, a dog who was responsible for moving sheep everyday. The dogs are bred to have that OMG YES fun energy drive, the super fast speed, the energy and the temperament to easily get hyped for a fun game. in my experience.

    I like to think of it as sprinters vs. marathon runners lol

    In my experience, I prefer working bred temperaments. It's a little easier to live with because I DO NOT compete seriously in sports. and that kind of energy with no sport/high energy outlet.. well.. that's a recipe for disaster I think lol
     
  3. Equinox

    Equinox Active Member

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    I know of a lot of breeders in Schutzhund with performance/sport bred dogs, and others breeding for working dogs. I cannot usually tell that from a simple glance at a website or a few titles.

    Depending on your own priorities, you could go either way. I know of MACH working bred German Shepherds, and even if I wanted to get into agility, I would still look for a working bred dog. Like Fran, I'm not going to be seriously competing in anything, and I know I can count on a working bred dog to dabble with me in virtually any sport.
     
  4. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    Personally I wouldn't consider breeding for agility or schutzhund as breeding for real work. A corso is a gripping and guard dog, if I were looking for a working dog of that type I'd be looking for someone who kept them for hog hunting and had maybe tested his dogs with a helper. (and if I were getting a dog of that type I'd get one bred for work)

    There was a guy on another forum that bred presas, same kind of deal. He was a bullrider and bred bucking bulls on his ranch, and he hog hunted, and he was a contractor. He used his dogs for guarding stuff, catching cattle, catching hogs, killing varmints, the whole shebang. They lived free range together with little terriers and kids and seemed to do just fine. He took his favorite dog with him when he traveled, he said the dog had been in 40 states or something. He wasn't a breeder per se but he did have a litter every few years and if I were getting a presa or similar dog, I would plead and beg and try and convince him to let me have one of his pups lol.
     
  5. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    Thats pretty much what I am looking for, unfortunalty I have not been able to find a breeder of coros yet, that actually work their dogs.
     
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Semantics.
     
  7. Xandra

    Xandra Active Member

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    Yeah I know what you mean, they aren't exactly in abundance are they :/

    I would say though that someone who raises dogs like that probably isn't going to have a website. Maybe try calling the corso club and ask if they know of anyone hunts pigs with them or owns a cattle ranch. Next I'd try posting on some pig hunting forums and classifieds and see if anyone there has some or knows of some. Of course you'd be shipping a long ways but if htat's what you're looking for it may be worth it.

    Have you ruled out Ambulls? It may be easier to find a farm that has American Bulldogs that do actual farm activities and maybe does some PP as well.
     
  8. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    you just need to go out and look at dogs, make note of the ones you like and find out where they get them from.

    Most of the dogs we're talking about in this thread are not a breed I'd recommend for anybody other than those needing an estate guard dog and in a pack. The majority have been nervy beasts and not of much use for me. But for someone willing to take on that responsibility, go ahead.

    but people get way to caught up in what words mean to other people, go see the dogs. who cares if they're "sport" bred and what the hell does it mean anyway? and what is working bred? and how is it going to pertain to what you want, unless you see the dogs.

    http://kennelbyonics.com/current-dogs/byonics-viggo/

    this is a corso that I've met that was actually decent. If it were me looking for one of these dogs I would start there.

    if I was looking for a bulldog i'd look here

    Home - COBBLESTONE KENNEL

    i've actually seen some from here that have good temperment and miles ahead of most that i've met. I must say, until i got to work some dogs from this place, i would have steered anyone looking for one to another breed completely, between soft temps with crappy builds and the neurotic messes that kept showing up, I was wondering why people even bred them.

    i'm rambing i guess, but ask yourself why do you want this type of dog? Then go find them. You can only read so much, because take it from someone that has worked a lot of breeds and heard a lot of stories, what you read about a dog, and what it is in front of you are often a million miles apart.
     
  9. Michiyo-Fir

    Michiyo-Fir New Member

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    I would definitely consider working bred (in Border Collies) for agility! Actually I prefer working bred for agility in BCs.

    Working bred dogs are bred with work in mind so for Border Collies, managing sheep and cattle. The dogs are only bred after being able to work at a high standard whether in a trial setting or on the farm.

    Performance bred is based on breeding animals that have been successfully trialed agility/flyball, titled in agility but without regards of things like ability to herd. Agility, obedience, flyball, rally, disc etc. doesn't count as work.

    I think working dogs are more level headed with better impulse control while a lot of performance dogs are bred for speed and sometimes they are really fast but forget to think. Really depends on the breed and lines though.

    I've heard from people that obedience bred dogs think more but don't have much herding instinct (something about the way that they retrieve in a curved line when they have working instinct?? no idea if it's true). Flyball bred tend to be very fast and excitable dogs. Agility is somewhere in between I guess.

    Depending on the lines, some performance dogs are bred to be on all the time while working dogs tend to be able to relax more because there isn't always work to be done on a farm and the dogs need to relax at home.

    I suggest meeting some from both types of breedings, you may find yourself more drawn towards one than the other. They can be quite different dogs to be honest.

    Edit: I agree with that often times actual working breeders don't bother to make a website. They're not there to supply puppies to the general public, they have dogs for themselves that they breed for their own use in the next few years and perhaps for friends they know that work in the same way that need new puppies.
     
  10. AllieMackie

    AllieMackie Wookie Collie

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    As far as herding breeds go, I'm completely sold on working bred dogs, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at the right "combo" breeder who may breed for performance (agility/obed/flyball), but also make sure the dogs have experience with herding and health tests.
     
  11. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    Thats for the advice, I will look into it. Oh maybe I should talk to Pops. He might have an idea.

    I have looked into AmBulls, but have pretty much tossed them out because of their softness issues they have in the breed. Soft breeds and I dont go well together.
     
  12. Equinox

    Equinox Active Member

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    To clarify, I think I often think in terms of extremes when I think of "sport breeders" - I don't think every (or even most) breeders could or should be labeled with either, and there certainly is no exact "criteria". I just happen to think of a very specified, sport oriented type of breeder when I hear the term "sport breeder".

    When I get a German Shepherd, that's all I will be looking for. A good German Shepherd Dog :)
     
  13. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    I agree completely... perhaps it's a little unfair but the kind of breeder Fran is talking about is what comes to mind when I hear "sport breeder." More to the point, somebody who is breeding a dog JUST for success in a sport rather than breeding so somebody can own an enjoyable dog...

    Beyond that I generally agree with Adrienne - semantics.
     
  14. mrose_s

    mrose_s BusterLove

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    In BC's I'd take either but would prefer a good combination breeder. There are a few of them I like in Australia, the woman I am going to approach about my next dog (whenever that is) has just started breeding but I really like her dogs and the lines they come from. I think she balances performance and working skills well.

    I don't have a problem breeding for performance but if I was taking on a BC I'd want them to be able to atleast dabble in sheepwork and a good BC breeder of any sort should be breeding to maintain offswitch and other good working dog traits.
     
  15. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Yep that.

    For me 'working' dogs are dogs that are used for a function in a real world setting. Performance/sport dogs are competition dogs. There can be some overlap.

    If anything the BC world has taught me that the two terms are not well defined and are open to interpretation.
     
  16. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Some of it depends on the breed. In GSDs and Mals "working bred" generally means the dogs are tested through some sort of protection sport. There just aren't enough police, military, truly tested personal protection dogs to support a healthy breeding population for working dogs. Most good police GSDs come from a pedigree with SchH dogs. That was actually the reason SchH was created - as a temperament test for breeding GSDs who were not being used for real work. But not all breeders who do protection sports are breeding for true working temperament, some really are breeding more for an outstanding sport dog.

    In breds like BCs or Aussies though, working bred often means that the dogs are bred by people who actually use and need them on a daily basis for moving livestock. In hunting dogs, there is often a three way split - show, field trial and hinting lines because the field trials tend to select for extremes of what is needed in an actual bird dog.

    For me, performance bred means the dogs are coming from a performance minded breeder, someone who actively trains their dogs for performance and competes with them. They may or may not also compete in conformation as well but they make breeding choices based on improving traits that make the dogs easier to train, motivate, etc. Just having performance dogs to one's credit doesn't IMO make a performance breeder if all the breeder shows in is conformation.
     
  17. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    That. Totally.

    Working bred in one breed might be completely different in another breed.
     
  18. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    This.

    Stockdogs are, IMO, going the same way you describe bird dogs. There are your immensely talented trial dogs who would not do a lick of good on a farm, and there are terrific farm dogs who wouldn't be spectacular in trials. There's a spllit even in the stockdog breeds between performance/trial dogs and just working farm dogs.
     
  19. SpicyBulldog

    SpicyBulldog New Member

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    There are very few working Cane Corso as in police k9, hog hunting actual work but there are a few. Though a performance bred dog can still suit your needs which is performance sport or whatever you want to call it.

    Basically they can be bred for one but do the other.

    My CC is from show and sport dogs (like SCH). Great with stock which I no longer have however. If you checked out Byonics the black dog top left is her grand sire Noe.
     
  20. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    :hail:

    I've known amped up "sport" bred dogs who couldn't possibly be more sweet and polite in the house, and dogs with herding bloodlines that would make working people weep with joy who I want to kick over a fence because they can't settle.

    Dogs are dogs. Find the one that works for you. Don't worry about what the rest of the world thinks or what they call it.
     

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