Wolf at the dog park?

Discussion in 'Dog Pictures and Pet Photos' started by 4dogs3cats, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Depends on where they are from. Even the same spieces of wolf can vary between 60-125 depending on their 'family' And if you add a little dog in there...

    He certainly doesn't look ANYTHING like the coyotes I see (we have loads of those around here.. I have seen them running up the centre of the road in broad daylight) But maybe down there you have wolfy coyotes. around here they are all leg.

    [​IMG]

    That 'dog' in the park is much to 'built' to look like a coyote.

    As I said.. it would be neat to get a DNA sample......
     
  2. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    Well how an animal ends up depends on two parents. If the other were stockier or had less leg...there ya go.

    I don't think the dog is PURE anything LOL. But a mix of likely several northern breeds or even crosses of those with a wild canid of some sort...

    Okla. Coyotes in full coat look very like that dog above...sure lighter in bone...but a wolf is at least as leggy as a yote for it's size...so probably a GSD or Husky took that down a notch or two.

    But by anyone estimation it is a mixed breed dog...probably with some wild canid someplace...but if the other breeds are "northern" type the wild canid need not even be that high in percentage or close up.

    eta: esp if that northern breed looks like this to start with.

    LINK
     
  3. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    See many wolves I see.. aren't all that leggy.. Leggier than northern breeds generally (or at least the KC version of them) But the coyotes around here look like they are on stilts.

    Hmm wonder if the owner was wanting to do a DNA test ... I might be able to hook them up with people who have huge databases of wolf and coyote DNA...
     
  4. 4dogs3cats

    4dogs3cats Aroooooo!

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    He left before I could ask any more questions. If I see him again, it seems like he goes a lot, I will ask if he has ever thought about it.
     
  5. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Being from AZ though, I really don't think he's a coyote mix. We had a few coyote mixes come into rescue from the res and they looked nothing like this dog, and nothing like wolves. AZ coyotes are very leggy, scrawny, have very short fur and huge ears. They look almost like long legged fennec foxes. Plus they were tiny, the pure coyotes and mixes were rarely over 40 lbs. I wish we had pictures of them still, but most of them looked like these coyotes except they were solid fawn colored with black masks (pics taken in Pima county where the coyote mixes were found):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And as for wolf hybrids being aggressive with dogs, my mom's old neighbors had a pair of 50/50 akita wolf hybrids (sisters). These were definitely not mal mixes, they behaved like wolves. Anyway, they were pretty indifferent to strange humans. One sister, who was blind, was reactive to everything and pretty guardy, the guardiness probably coming from the akita. The other sister *loved* other dogs. She and Strider used to race each other up and down the fence play bowing the whole time. They also lived with several boston/jack russel mixes and tolerated those just fine (most of the time, sometimes the terriers got on their nerves, lol).
     
  6. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    LOL to me...the dogs legs look a whole lot more like the coyotes than the wolves...right down to those dainty feet!
     
  7. xpaeanx

    xpaeanx Active Member

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  8. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    lol, it's all kind of silly anyway, I have an article that talks about how DNA testing has shown that red wolves are the ancestors of grey wolves and coyotes, and if you really want to be picky about it the researchers felt it would be more accurate to classify them all as the same species. Come to think of it, I still need to type it up and pm it to a few people here who asked for it. :eek:

    It might be a few days since we are in the middle of moving, but does anybody else want me to send them a copy?
     
  9. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    Some classify dogs a simply canis lupus I understand...it's all jumbled up because none of them ever want to agree that anyone else could be right LOL.
     
  10. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    LOL

    There are places east of me where there has been a lot of mixing of coyote and wolf in the wild.

    Then there is the dilemma.. at what point do you say 'this dna is wolf dna' animals are constantly evolving and changing.

    But historically there is significant genetic difference between new world wolves and old world wolves (seen the printouts my self lol)
     
  11. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

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    Those DNA things...I always am suspicious LOL. Are they at least more precise than the ones they have for dog breeds?
     
  12. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    They are and they aren't. You are looking at isolated populations (for the most part) And you tend to compare much larger portions of the genome. Both are much more likely to give you accuracy. Most breeds of dogs are not that isolated genetically. Some of the rarer ancient breeds.. yes. So good DNA tests (which I have yet to see one off) would likely be more accurate with them.

    There are very easily (even to me lol) large differences between old and new world wolves.
     
  13. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Some interesting articles...

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n24_v139/ai_10948571

    http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2006/articles04/eastern_coyotes_are_becoming_coy.htm

    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17173030

    Wolves vs dogs vs (I think coyotes) have some very distinct structural characteristics. There are some physical structures of the skull that are common to ALL dogs no matter what breed... but are not the same as those of wolves or coyotes. So with DNA testing we are looking at comparing animals that are much more differentiated than dog to dog.. even if its a chi to a fila.
     
  14. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Yeah, people like to put things in organized little boxes...and that's not how the real world works when it comes to species differentiation. Many of the species we have classified, if you were to DNA profile them, would actually be the same species but with different social behaviors or geographical distribution which prevents crossbreeding without human interferance.

    There has been a huge deal about this in the cornsnake community. Cornsnakes, and all other new world rat snakes hybridize very readily in captivity, have fertile offspring, and after a few generations of crossing it's impossible to tell whether an animal is a hybrid or not. A few hybrids happen in the wild, but due to differencea in breeding seasons and courtship rituals it's not terribly common.

    Then you have kingsnakes (lampropeltis), a totally different genus with totally different behaviors, most notable being cannibalism. They also produce fertile and hardy offspring with rat snakes in captivity. It would never happen in the wild, because they would normally eat a rat snake. In captivity you have to "bait and switch" lol, and even then it's a bit risky. People still do it often though, and after a couple of generations it's visually impossible to tell a hybrid from a pure animal (which is bad when you have a snake that you expect to cohabit peacefully with others, and then starts eating them for no apparent reason).

    All of this applies to different species of trout, salmon, grouse, deer.

    Let's not even get into plants. lol!

    If it weren't for all the political/ethical ramifications, scientists would have different races of human all classed as different species. When you look at the phenotypical difference between a norseman and a member of the hottentot tribe...there is a greater difference than between a wolf and a coyote. :) In fact "back in the day" people were classified as different species (which a lot of jerks used as an excuse to treat people badly) :mad:
     
  15. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

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    personally i see coyote in the face, the muzzle seems too dainty to be wolf and i think sizewise is deciving, i definatly get the image form thos pics that hes smaller than first seems.

    he looks ALOT like a dog i met about 2 yrs ago that came through the shelter i worked at and was put to sleep. his mother was someones illegal "pet" coyote, the father the guys Husky/mal mix. he looked axactly like that dog down to a T. beutiful boy. but even low content hybrids are illegal in the state and he was imediatly put to sleep
    very sweet boy though and such a shame, he was very "quiet" ignored most of the other dogs (though couldnt be trusted around cats or small breeds cause he got realy excited) and he was such a howler, not in the sad im in a kennel kind of way, hed go out for his nightime run and just HOWL for the heck of it.

    that dog is pretty no matter what it is, but id definatly not say pure wolf...i definatly see more coy in the face, i think the color and "floof" make him look a little more wolfie.
     
  16. LauraLeigh

    LauraLeigh New Member

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    Just found this thread, showed my hubby who has seen far more coyotes than me and he also agrees with you & Ado, thought of coyote right away.
     
  17. Paige

    Paige Let it be

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    Wow! What striking animal.
     
  18. 4dogs3cats

    4dogs3cats Aroooooo!

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    He was very small. kody (my black and tan beagle in those pics) is 35 pounds. The golden he was standing by when they were checking out the aussie is his owners friends golden and shes about 45-50 pounds if that. Very small for a golden. The aussie is still a puppy, so yeah he was pretty small. I def think coyote.
     

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