Who are you buying your puppy from?

Discussion in 'Puppy Forum' started by agilitydobemom, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. agilitydobemom

    agilitydobemom agilitydobemom

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    There has been alot of disscusion on this forum as to how are breeders classified and what makes them what they are anyways I found a website yesterday explaining how breeders are classified


    Hobby Breeder : A breed fancier who usually has only one breed but may have two follows a breeding plan in efforts to preserve and protect the breed they are raising produces from none to five litters per year breeds only when a litter will enchance the breed and breeding program raises the puppies with pleanty of enviromental and human contact has a contract that protects the breeder, dog, and buyer runs a small clean kennel screens breeding stock to eliminate heredity defects from the breed works with a breed club or kennel club to promote and protect the breed and cares that each and every puppy is placed in the best home possible

    Back Yard Breeder (BYB) : Dog owner whos pet either gets bred by accident or who breeds on purpose for a variety of reasons usually ingnorant of the breed standard, genetics, behavior, and good health practices byb's can easily become a commercial breeder or a puppymill

    Commercial Breeder : Usually has several breeds of dogs with profit as a primary motive dogs may be healty or not and kennel may be clean or not dogs probably not selected for resembalance to the breed standard or for good temperment most sell to pet shops or brokers who sell to pet stores

    Brooker : Buys puppies from a commercial kennel and sells to retail outlets ship pups by the crate load on arilines or by truckload throughout the country must be licensed by USDA and must abide by the shipping regulations in the animal welfare act even though they are required to be licensed some are not and that is against the law

    Bunchers : Collect dogs of unknown origin for sale to labratories or other buncers considered much lower on the evolutinary scale because of much suspiscion that they buy stolen pets, collect "free" pets, and adopt unwanted pets from animal shelters for research at veternarian colleges and industrial research labs

    Puppymill (pm) : Breeder who produces pups hand over fist with no breeding program little attention to puppy placement and poor health and socillization practices may or may not be dirty but is usually overcrowded and dogs may be neglected or abused because the breeder can't properly handle the amount of dogs they have often put down hobby breeders to make a sale

    This website would be helpful to prospective puppy owners in deciding who they should buy their puppy from and how to tell who they are buying there pup from I am also going to list the website it would be great to check it out and it has some great information on buying from petstores and why it is not a good idea ;)

    www.canismajor.com/dog/puppynil.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2004
  2. agilitydobemom

    agilitydobemom agilitydobemom

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    I agree and that is why I thought that it was important for other people to read this

    I also agree that commercial breeders and puppymills are the same thing but the kennel clubs will not diferentiate them because commercial breeders have to be licensed like the brokers and because they are required to be licensed that makes them o.k. in the kennel clubs eyes which I do not agree with but that is the way the world works unfortunately so that is why they were listed seperatly from puppymills;)
     
  3. agilitydobemom

    agilitydobemom agilitydobemom

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    Very nicely said
     
  4. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    No truly reputable breeder (or decent human being) breeds dogs (or any other living creature) with Profit as the objective.
     
  5. candy722

    candy722 New Member

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    There are so many breeders out there that only breed dogs just for the money. I know that they do take good care of their puppies but it bothers me that they breed them on purpose and they will lie to customer about their weight and traits just because they want to sell it and make money.
    I bought my dog from someone like this. He totally lied to me about the size of my yorkie. He told me that he was 10 weeks old but then I found out that he was only 6 weeks. He lied to me because he wanted me to think he was going to be a small yorkie and I would buy it because it's such a good deal. Anyways, so I went back to him pretending I was gonna buy another yorkie but it turns out that he doesn't even remember me at all so he was totally lying about everything that he told me the first time. He even confessed that people do lie about their age of puppies but he didn't know that i bought one from him. From that moment I have realized that he was doing it for the money. THank god he at least raise the dogs healthy before he sells them.
     
  6. AkashaO

    AkashaO Pap Pup

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    I researched different Papillon breeders every day for over 6 months before I found the puppy for me. I was disgusted at how many so-called "reputable" out-of-state breeders there were that didn't care to know who I was, where their puppies were going and how they were going to be treated. "JUST SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!"

    I found that going to true show-breeders and asking a lot of questions (and listening to the questions that they asked of me) made all the difference. I had to wait but my W/B papillon puppy, Domino, is not only of great tempernment and personality, but he also is a wonderful physical example of the breed standard.

    My only advice to anyone looking at purchasing a new puppy is this: Don't buy too cheap or too expensive; You have to find the right breeder before you can find the right puppy (small show breeders are the best!); and, Take your time - or you might end up with a 20lb yorki or a hyper min-pin!

    By the way, Puppymills and Commercial kennels are a travisty to the lives of our furry friends! NEVER BUY FROM A PET STORE!!!
     
  7. josephine

    josephine New Member

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    I remember once that i went to a pet shop to take a puppy...they didn't take good care of them...and its supposed that there was vet there that were taking care of them,they give the puppies for free so as to get money afterwards
    yeah sure...i took the two puppies and left without vacinating tem there...I don't remember myself buying a puppy,there are many puppies/dogs that people dump everyday i prefer adopting those
     
  8. AkashaO

    AkashaO Pap Pup

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    I have 4 dogs. 3 of them we have had in our family for over 5 yrs. They are larger mix breed dogs that we adopted from the local shelter. 1 of them, our boy Jake, was actually on death row. A three time loser and had only days left. I will be honest, he wasn't the dog that we were going to adopt. But after the animal tech told us his story, we couldn't leave him. We love all our animals (2 ferrets included) and Domino, the only purebred dog we have ever purchased from a breeder, is no more or less loved.

    I guess what I am trying to say is this - I believe that a mix breed puppy receives all the best tempernment/health benefits from each breed it has. Unlike a purebred puppy which can be overly/inbred with many bad traits both physically and personality - directly influenced by the breeder. If you love a specific breed and want a purebred puppy then please do not buy a puppy from a pet shop as you are then supporting the puppymill and commercial breeders. No reputable breeder will sell their puppies through a pet store.

    God love the people that adopt unwanted animals from the shelters!
     
  9. AkashaO

    AkashaO Pap Pup

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    I see and understand where Serena is coming from with selective line breeding. However, I never stated that the mixed puppy is healthier or sounder. I merely said that there is more control in breeding with pure lines. The more popular breeds do have significant hereditary problems. The more popular the breed, the more b/y/b, puppymills, commercial breeders have a handle in the "production" of the breed. Not for quality but for the $$$$$$. You will never see a mutt puppy in the pet shop selling for $1,100. Just be sure who you buy your pet from. Who wants to spend thousands on a yorki that grows to be 15lbs or a schnauzer that goes blind by age 3?

    Yes, mixed breeds are unpredictable in health and temperament because of the unknown element. That's why a lot of people prefer to buy more expensive purebreds because there should be a better knowledge of the puppy's hereditary background. By my own personal experience, I have had more friends/family/acquaintances complain about the physical and temperament problems with their purebred dogs directly linked to hereditary then with their mixed (most of those complaints are about temperament problems caused by abuse or neglect).

    What ever our beliefs, I think that we can all agree that our only concern is for the health and happiness of the animals we bring into our homes and hearts. Purebred or mixed.
     
  10. AkashaO

    AkashaO Pap Pup

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    I respect your thoughts and views. However, I see that you do not respect mine (which is fine).

    With every topic, there are always two sides. Factual data and expert opinions sit on both ends. I think that it is wiser to broaden our opinions with the opposite views of others than to convert those whose beliefs and/or experiences are different. I expressed my views as my own personal beliefs. Beliefs based on many years of daily experience with not only my own animals but those animals of family/close friends and friends who happen to breed.

    Lastly on this topic, I did not incorrectly word my statement. I do believe that "a mix breed puppy receives all the best temperament/health benefits from each breed it has". I did not state that "mixed breeds are more healthy or sound" inferring that I believe that they are sounder/healthier than purebred. There can be significant problems with both.

    I thought that this site would be a forum for which all can relay their thought, feelings and opinions without having to feel oppressed or rejected. It's too bad that sometimes people can't just agree to disagree with respect for one another - and move on.
     
  11. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    AkashaO I've never found a dog forum that was like that. The small pet forum I go to is great. Lots of great advice and friendly people. We all know eachother. :) I just got the Cheers theme song in my head.

    enough said
     
  12. AkashaO

    AkashaO Pap Pup

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    Saje,

    I look forward to meeting more interesting and friendly people in the small dog forum. I have made many new friends on this site and I know that I will have the enjoyment of making new friends along the way.

    I think that the original topic of this discussion was missed, as Serena proves in her last reply (#17). Again, I never implied that mixes were sounder than purebreds! And, I surely never stated anything about the purposeful breeding of mixes for the "cutesy designer mutts". I was just speaking about the many mix breed dogs which I have owned or had the privilege of knowing.

    I am so tired of this ranting. I will put Mr. Padgett's book on my list of must reads. I will get to that after I complete "Lucile" by Owen Meredith (copyright 1883). Serena, you might want to get a copy for yourself, if you can find one.

    I have nothing but respect and good wishes for ALL!

    I look forward to chatting with you more in the future Saje.
     
  13. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

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    Serena, very few people know how to linebreed or inbreed. There are so few good breeders and among those even fewer people that know enough about genetics to linebreed or inbreed and even when it is done it's not 100% accurate. I don't think it's a great tool to use in breeding (word play!) to the best of my knowledge the results are negative far more often then positive.
     
  14. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Line breeding is used by some of the very elite Fila breeders. The breed was almost lost in its native environs and so many of the dogs were in such weak health that it was difficult to find the dogs needed to save the breed in its proper configuration, temperament and working instincts. And now many of the Brazilian breeders are crossing in other breeds, like the Bull Mastiff, to soften the temperament and even to increase production (the Northern hemisphere doesn't have the market cornered on BYBs unfortunately).

    I don't know enough to line breed, so I'll be staying away from that technique and leave it to the Masters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2005
  15. AkashaO

    AkashaO Pap Pup

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    Last night a friend (who happens to be a breeder) called me. We were laughing about how fired up people can get over others who have conflicting beliefs or values. She happens to share some of my beliefs but she also has strong feelings about breeding practices in the purebred lines. She educated me (in a very smart, funny and to-the-point way) about some of the underlying misconceptions I had about mixes. But, she also agreed and understood that there are many specific mix types that do have a lot of "benefit" in structure and temperament. She was also very sad in explaining how the many popular purebred dogs are suffering from the "pedigree" breeders who care more about paper lines than true genetic links.

    She had me check out www.canine-genetics.com for more information on breeding and genetics. It was very informative. I am so thankful that there are people out there who are mature enough to understand the difference between educating an open mind and hard handedly screaming at a deaf heart. Then, she is an awesome person.
     
  16. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    Thanks for the link Akasha (you and I really MUST discuss books one day) ;) . I've bookmarked it to read when I can do so without guilt for not doing something else I'm supposed to be doing! I have a feeling it will be very useful in the future when it's time for Fila puppies.
     
  17. AkashaO

    AkashaO Pap Pup

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    Renee,

    I hope that you enjoy the read. Anytime you would like to discuss view on any topic, just touch base with me.

    By the way, your fila baby is beautiful! I had a friend who owned a beautiful Neopolitan Mastiff who was a doll!

    Chat with you later!
     
  18. caseyolee

    caseyolee Border Collies R' Us

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    Agilitydobemom: I hope EVERY SINGE PERSON on theis site reads that. I couldn't have said it better myself. That is why so many dogs/puppies are euthanized every year. Thank you for posting that!
     
  19. Love4Pits

    Love4Pits Playful Husky Pup

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    agree's i get so many mixed emotions from people when they find out that I am a breeder. The usually go with the whole why would you breed when theres so many dogs in the shelters? So then i go inot the whole speal saying how 6 of my dogs were in fact rescues from dog shelters and that I usually onely breed one or two bitches a year for the plane fact that it costs ALOT of money to breed responsibly. I also only breed if the ***** and dog are in perfect health and have the perfect temporment if not then their spayed or neutered and become just pets who pulls sleds.

    I just hate that there are so many "backyard" and "commercial" breeders out there who yes breed only for the profit and nothing else. I get labeled because of them and its pretty ridiculas that they have ruined it for the true reputable breeders out there who breed to better the breed. It just makes me so mad sometimes
     
  20. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    I love mixed breeds! All the dogs I have ever owned were mixed and they were all wonderful dogs. I don't think that they are any more unhealthy or unpredictable than a purebreed dog. I love mixed breeds and I don't think I would take my dogs any other way :)
     

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