Where to start?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Gena, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Gena

    Gena New Member

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    I'm seriously in love with the pap pup I've got in my lap. I'm toying with the idea of breeding (not him!) in 5 or so years. I'm pretty sure that emailing a breeder and saying "Hey, I want to be a breeder too!" is going to be met with :rolleyes: I've read a ton of information online, but really some of it seems written by whackadoos. Shows and trials around here are basically non existent...2 hour drives would be "close." Of course, the need for proving any dog I considered breeding would be met, along with patellas, eyes and such. And honestly, I'd probably start by proving/testing a male with and for another breeder to get my feet wet. So...even having a pretty good base of knowledge from reading here and elsewhere online...where do I go from here?
     
  2. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    If you're going to breed paps, showing is pretty much a must. You won't get any quality pups from good lines on a breeding contract without showing. Showing paps is pretty competitive these days, at least here. There's not that many as just pets, it seems a lot of people that own them really get into them and show them. We are usually one of the biggest entries in the toy group. Beau's 5 point majors were over 50 other dogs. So learning to groom properly is important, learning to handle, etc.

    One thing is join the PCA. Read everything there, especially the health and genetics sub-site. There are also breed mentors set up. I know Denzel is one, but I'd have to look for the list. If you email the PCA they could probably get you in touch with one that is relatively close to you. There are also smaller local breed clubs that might be close to you. (We're members of the papillon club of Tulsa for example) PCA has a good magazine called Pap Talk that is quarterly. I don't have a subscription but I steal the issues from my breeder once she's done with them.

    Here's the breed mentor list, hopefully someone on there is close to you:

    http://www.papillonclub.org/documents/Ringside_Mentor_List_6-29-2009.pdf

    Oh and also welcome to the breed! :D They're addicting, aren't they? :rofl1:

    ETA: Where are you located? I can't remember. I just wrote that assuming you were also in the US but I realized you might not be. Have you checked the show superintendents to see about conf shows in the area?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  3. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Oh and this is a good basic link if you're new to papillon conformation: Online Judging Seminar for the Papillon The photo section is nice and gives some good examples.

    ETA: Show grooming links (you can practice on your current pup even though he's not a show dog). Trimming the feet in a way that is breed appropriate is a skill I've yet to master and I've practiced a LOT, lol. My breeder has shown me so many times, but I still occasionally do a hack job.

    Braylor's Papillons: Papillon Grooming (the only think I disagree with is i would never use a slicker brush, but the rest is great with pictures)
    GROOMING & TRIMMING THE PAPILLON
    Papillon Show Grooming

    And here's the health and genetics site: Welcome to Papillon Club of America Inc ~ Health and Genetics website

    Sorry for the flood of links. I'm just trying to put up as much as I can think of that is applicable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  4. sammgirl

    sammgirl ACoops favorite

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    I'm not a pap person, but I can give you advice on my experiences with trying to get into a breed...

    What I did was send and email to the local breed club and ask if I could come to a meeting or speciality and meet some of the members and see if I really liked the atmosphere and to see if I got along with MOST people that I met.

    You won't like everyone, that's for sure, and you won't agree with everyone's breeding practices. BUT, there should be enough people that you are comfortable with to guide you along in this process.

    Then, you would want someone to mentor you through the process, so you would chose x people that you are comfortable with, and just start asking questions and getting to know them better.

    Plus, these people will be your peer group and your competition, so it's really important to know them well.

    Then, start looking for your show puppy. Through the contacts you've made, you could be able to get the puppy on co-ownership and maybe not have to spend $2,000 on a puppy. That didn't happen for me the first time around, but the more people you know the better you'll do.

    At that point, you may want to start taking handling classes from a professional handler. They may seem expensive, but if you ever get to the point that you want to special your dog, you'll see about $20,000 in savings if you just handle yourself.

    Maybe one of your mentors could teach you for free or a reduced cost. Again, this is why networking is sooooo important.

    This is something that I've really lucked into this time- I met the right person at the right time with the right breed who is willing to mentor. My "mentor" has about 5 mentors herself, LOL!

    And through out all of this, like Lauralin said, you're going to want to be researching breed issues and problems and then asking your mentors what their stances are. You'll get lots of different perspectives, but you'll learn alot and be able to form your own opinions on things that affect the breed.

    That's just my opinion and that's how I did things, but that's not the only way. There are as many ways to get into a breed as there are people in the breed. Good luck!!!!
     
  5. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Just some advice, but if you prove your current dog somehow, and it doesn't have to be in conformation, a breeder with high quality dogs will be a lot more likely to let you have one of their puppies. These folks generally don't breed often, they invest thousands in proving their dogs, and want their puppies to go to people who will work with them and keep up their kennel's image.

    If you do things with your current pap, like get his CGC, TDI and go do therapy work with him, agility, or something that gives the breeder some tangible proof that you are actually willing to do something with their puppy, instead of just sit on it at home.
     
  6. Gena

    Gena New Member

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    Laurelin...I've got more fun reading ahead :) Thank you for taking the time to link all that up for me! Braylors is one site I've spent quite a bit of time on already, but don't want to consider them "gospel" either...no one knows it all nor should they be expected to. Mom saw Buttons' feet the other day and said "Ooh, you're gonna have to learn about fuzzy slippers!" LOL! I may work up an email for one of the listed mentors on the PCA site though. I'm sure she's hours and hours away from me.

    Sammgirl...I hadn't thought of contacting the breed club(s) as none of them are even semi-local. The one for IL would be a day trip to attend a meeting. Dang living in podunk!! I thought there was a club in or around St. Louis, MO but I'm not finding it now. That would only be 2 hours away. I'm also still re-reading and processing all that you wrote. Thank you for taking all the time to do so!

    Romy...absolutely! I would love love love to get both the boys into agility, but the ONLY training classes around here are ones I won't set foot in again. I stupidly allowed them to bully me into putting a 16 week old min pin on a prong collar. I shouldn't leave a training class in tears and nauseated. So, I train alone for the most part. Mom helps and a friend of her's helps when I have major issues. Both of them use prongs and harshness in a lot of things though...I just can't get on board with that with 10lb dogs. My hope is to get both of them TDI certified. Even better would be being able to TDI certify them and earn some agility titles. I just don't know where to turn that is within a reasonable distance. Doing overnights to Chicago weekly just isn't quite in the budget at this time ;) I know there have to be things closer, I'm just not finding them. If I had more training and experience, I'd love to try to start something locally training wise. We have loads of dogs who have nowhere to go for any sort of training. Even Petsmart is almost 2 hours away. Most people won't or can't commit to that even for just 8 weeks. I'm considering it, but it is also a lot to ask of a pup to travel 3-4 hours PLUS participate in a class.

    I'm not trying to make excuses...just trying to explain my situation. I'm looking for solutions to my stumbling blocks and hoping someone out there in cyberland has some leads for me to follow. I may also email a semi-local breeder who appears to have her stuff together to find out where she trains and shows. But again, I'm looking at likely a 4 hour round trip.

    Again, thank you ALL for the time you've spent reading and answering me. The links and ideas are really heading me in the right direction I think.
     
  7. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    You could also look for mentors outside of the breed too. Maybe try at first for a similar breed but it could help to be close to a reputable breeder no matter what they breed. Then you could do more of the pap talking via long distance while learning about whelping, etc with a breeder that is closer to home.

    My mentors are almost 9 hours away now, though I've started talking with more local breeders a bit. The breed club I belong to is probably 9 hours away now (though I'm thinking of joining the houston breed club). I go to the breeder's house a few times a year, mostly to board my dogs and just visit. I live in podunk town too and traveling is part of the game. If you're serious about breeding, traveling a couple times a year to a specialty or something would probably be well worth your while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  8. YodelDogs

    YodelDogs New Member

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    I completely agree with Romy about this. A person who has titled a dog in some form will normally be taken more seriously by a breeder than one who has not.
     
  9. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Great advice so far.. let me add that you might want to start with a girl if you want to get into breeding. Its easy to find a good stud dog that compliments your girl.. its a lot harder to find someone who is willing to lease you a girl who is compatible with your male.
     

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