Where are your puppies going?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Fran27, Sep 25, 2005.

  1. Fran27

    Fran27 New Member

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    Found this on another forum. It's mostly averages of course, but maybe some people will realize that the situation is pretty bad. It's a repost from the 10th page of another thread, but I think it deserves its own.

    DID YOU KNOW:
    That when your dog has 6 puppies...


    *** Chances of serious complications during delivery are 1 in 4....

    *** Chances of a bitch dying during the birthing process are 1 in 20...

    *** Chances of an Emergency C-Section are 1 in 10...

    *** Chances of loosing at LEAST 1 puppy during delivery are 1 in 3...

    *** Chances of loosing at least 1 puppy within the 1st week are 1 in 2...

    *** Chances of ALL your PURE-BRED puppies finding PERMANENT & FOREVER homes are about 6%

    *** 5 out of your 6 puppies are going to spend their lives with at least 4 DIFFERENT families throughout their lives...

    *** 4 out of your 6 puppies are going to bounce from home to home and in and out of Shelters, with the average time spent with one family being 1-2 years...

    *** 3 out of your 6 puppies (50%) are going to be euthanized in a shelter, or in an enviroment where there is no one who loves them near them to comfort them...

    *** At least 1 out of your 6 puppies is going to be abused, starved or beaten...

    *** At least 1 out of your 6 puppies is going to be hit by a car before it's 2nd birthday.

    *** At least 2 out of your 6 puppies are going to be dead before they reach 5 years of age...

    *** Chances of ONE of your 6 puppies going thru ANY obedience training whatsoever are about 50%...

    *** Chances of YOU, the person who planned for your PURE-BRED puppy to be born, being there for your puppy to comfort it, heal it, feed it, love it, and make sure it is safe and protected all it's life.... 0.00001%....
     
  2. gapeach

    gapeach Big Mutts

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    Wow thanks for posting that Fran, very good reasons why there should be no back yard breeding, leave it to the experts.
     
  3. Dakotah_2009

    Dakotah_2009 OOO YEA SHHHAKE IT!!

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    wow thats great info. I didn't know half or all of that stuff. thanks for sharing and I agree w/ all of it 100%
     
  4. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    If they could see this, I think a lot of miseducated novice/potential breeders would take breeding a lot more seriously.

    Those are definitely averages, though, from the entire 'breeding community' including many backyard breeders. Responsible breeders will screen homes more carefully (Hell I'm going to do background checks on every one of my potential puppy buyers.) and there is less of a chance of the dog being flopped around, starved, neglected, or dropped in a shelter. Not many people will go to a reputable breeder and walk away owning a puppy unless they know their stuff when it comes to dogs.

    It's another reason why breeders should be prepared to keep every single puppy that is born. I won't place a pup in an unsuitable home, just to get it out of my house. Ever. I will only place a puppy if it's going to a good, experienced home that will at the very least, send it back to me if they can't keep it any longer.
     
  5. Gallien Jacks

    Gallien Jacks New Member

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    Well said, My pups go with a contract that says if for whatever reason they can no longer keep the dog they have to return it to me.

    When we got our staffy we went to see the pups and the breeder just said right which one do you want, then we handed over the money and that was that, she didnt ask any questions, it was me asking all the questions
     
  6. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    Good post. I really thought about maybe in the future breeding (long future after I've decided on a breed and researched for a few years). I don't think I could handle the mom getting hurt or worse or the puppies being in shelters or PTS. Even with the contract that the puppies had to go back to you people move and they often times don't keep in contact with the breeder. If things happen they will just dump the dog and forget the contract and hope the breeder never finds out.
     
  7. yentna

    yentna New Member

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    The puppy stories are so horrible! My family, growing up, always had 3 -5 dogs, mostly adopted because our neighbors couldn't bear the responsibility. Granted, we were in rural Alaska so our neighbors weren't close and usually didn't have spayed / neutered dogs either, so were always trying to get rid of puppies. They would just give them away to anyone that wanted them. I know a lot of those puppies' lives ended badly. :( I'll only have fixed animals.
     
  8. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I think I answered this elsewhere ?????
     
  9. amymarley

    amymarley New Member

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    Again, the more and more I read from you people, you mostly agree..
    So for the 3rd time, I am posting this same thing again.......

    I see that most if not all of the people here are very passionate about their fids. I know I am brand new to the board and didn't really represent myself as I should have the first few posts, but I wish this whole breeding tread would disappear. It seems that the majority here may have purebreds (I do too, from a shelter). But the whole breeding thing gets my hackles up and I am seeing it's getting others hackles up as well. I understand freedom of speech, and respect that, but from what I can see here, most "animal people" don't respect the concept and are not in favor of it.

    I could see having a pure-bred section, (and discussing training, behavior and temperments of certain breeds) but "the breeding ground" sounds like a doggy orgy for profit. Just my 2 cents....
    Amy
     
  10. sylvia liebrechts

    sylvia liebrechts silronrays

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    dont mix good breeders with puppyfarms!
    do you really think that if you breed one littera year ... think about getting bitch tested hips, elbows, eyes;, shown, taking to field trails all needed here to "qualify" your bitch for breeding ... then the costs for studfee, not forgetting whelpingbox... all the food , vaccinations, both bitch and pups etc .... do you really think that at the end of the day .... they make "big profit",,
    and YES i am a breeder too, for more then 35 years now ..... with many of the "so-called puppybuyers i am still in touch: most of them are good friends ... and YES i have a contract that if something goes wrong the dog must be returned and YES ....
    i also CANNOT give a lifetime healthguarntee on the dog ...... but can anyone ? ...... the same with people ......!!! but try to breed as healthy animals as possible ... but still NO lifetime guarantee possible !!
    But i have set up a rescuecenter because ..... there are these breeders who dont take any responsability ... who are in it for the money .... but believe me it takes more then one or maybe two litters a year to get the sort of profit you believe we earn!
    If looking for a puppy, go and visit the breeder ... use the time, the money that it will take to visit her/him.
    Look around when visiting .... old boys, old girls around ? Those who aren't bred from anymore, not used as stud ... or are there just the "UP to 7" Year bitches ....
    real breeders are proud to show you the grandparents, the old boy who has produced the "so and so...... dogs", the old lady, maybe even with stiff legs, not so glossy coats anymore ... but still being grandma of her TOP winning bitch/dog .....
    those are the breeders who are in it because they love the breed ... and who have "made" the breed , so dont you mix them all together and think breeders are a sort of "secondgraded moneymakers!"
    maybe you have just met the wrong ones ..... time to meet some of mu USA friends then .... who just like me love their dogs .... even when ill ... having genetic problems .... because whatever happens .... it is still their dog ... was their choosen pup ..... Believe me some are really in it for the love of the breed!
    *
     
  11. g00ber

    g00ber Dirty Dawg...

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    sylvia liebrechts has said it all!!

    It is not fair to throw all breeders in the same basket. You may seem to think that everyone could just stop breeding and it would be "problem solved". Unfortunately, life just isn't that black and white. Breeders like Sylvia should be encouraged not put down for what they do, as from what I have read she is one of the breeders out there that is doing the right thing. If all these great breeders stopped what they were doing it would not help fix the problem but in fact make it worse. BYBers and Puppy Farmers would see a gap in the market and start producing more pups with no concern for where these pups would end up. Even if no one intended to breed either purebred or crossbred pups, there will still be those that are to irresponsible to keep their females in season either locked up or have them desexed... hence there will still be puppies.

    Most responsible breeder usually make no money (and more often than not) lose money by breeding dogs, it is certainly not the money making machine that some people believe it is.

    I am not saying that you don't have a right to your opinion Animalbiz, but breeders are not the only reason that dogs end up in shelters... irresponsible owners are just as much to blame. I have only been on this forum for one day and this not the first post that I have read by you that has put down breeders, yet I have not seen you encouraging people to be responsible pet owners. I believe that if more people were responsible pet owners, and to put some thought into buying a dog before they took it home this would be far more effective when it comes to keeping dogs out of shelters than stopping responsible breeders ever would be. I understand that the topic of breeding may get your "hackles up" Animalbiz but from what I have seen here so far, so is the fact that you are telling responsible breeders that they shouldn't be breeding.
     
  12. Ash47

    Ash47 Taco Dog

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    We know there are good breeders. But they are few and very far between. No one is placing them all in the same basket. Most of us own at least one purebred (look in the siggys), so of course we don't look down on ALL breeders. We just know you have to luck up on a good breeder with worthy dogs. Some of us have been duped by BYB.

    Animal Biz, is there nothing you are happy with on this forum? The Breeding Ground is just a little play on words. If you research our posts, you will find 99.9999% of us don't agree with BYB. So, in taking offense to the name of one of the forums, you are obviously not taking the time to get to know us very well before posting yet another 'rant' against us and our forum.
     
  13. g00ber

    g00ber Dirty Dawg...

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    Sorry Pro47, I think my post must have come across wrong. I didn't mean for it to sund like I thought that everyone on the forum was lumping every breeder in the same basket. I just felt that animalbiz was lumping all breeder in the same basket not only by what was said in this thread but also in others... sorry if I gave you the wrong idea. The post was directed at Animalbiz, not the forum members as a whole.
     
  14. Ash47

    Ash47 Taco Dog

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    g00ber,
    I knew who you were talking to hun. I was just posting it to anyone new who does not really know what most of us here at Chaz feel. ;)
     
  15. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    The Breeding Ground is an off shoot from Dog Breeds as a lot of people were posting breeding questions ... which made it very complicated. It's where people can learn...not to promote breeding.
     
  16. amymarley

    amymarley New Member

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    To be quite honest, I am most likely not talking to the "people" I want to reach. They are most likely not on this forum, and therefore are prob. unreachable anyway...

    The dog owners, breeders, and dog lovers here are here for a reason. That's why they post.

    I do know some dog breeders that I do respect....but I still hate the fact that there are so many dogs in shelters that need a loving home and when there is NO need for shelters, then yes breed. Some people just like certain breeds... that's fine. Again, most of you have not walked in my shoes, therefore, do not know what I am trying to say....

    Bottom line.... And I keep writing this, #1. Breeders breed to make money, give me a break. They may or may not make a lot, but it's their business. Because we live in America, it is their right.

    #2. Most of you have seen the post about breeding and what it can do to the bitches. (that was said perfectly)

    #3. The U.S. ALONE puts down over 7 million pets a year because they can't find homes for them.

    #4. My production company has saved over 300 animals ranging from rats, snakes, ferrets, dogs, cats, ducks, pigeons, mini horses, llamas, and a bunch of others...because people "can't deal with them." OR the best yet.... They are "untrainable," ............well they did a hell of a job perfoming in front of 5,000 people per day at my shows...doing what was natural, getting the BEST vet care, getting the best food, lots of treats, exercising their mind, finding ever-lasing homes, and having fun. Which I can't say for the average pet. One of my dogs who is part black lab and chow mix, was put into a shelter at the age of 3 years old. On the card, the owners stated that this dog was so untrainable...... Let me tell you, this dog knows more vocal, and hand commands, can do everything, has been on t.v., newspapers etc... Has even learned and tought how "bomb dogs" are trained and has done several shows in various states..... How sad he was "untrainable". He now lives in my home at a pet, but I know he misses being on stage.

    #5....****, I could keep going on.... #5, I would love to speak to any of you who breed... Maybe you really have the best intentions, it just sucks when you "sell" a dog/cat" to a person, (people are the ones who make you look bad)....because they want a cute, furry, pet-baby....until the problems start or the vet bills get to expensive. I am sorry, but there is no way in hell any of you can "bring" me to the other side. I have seen way too much abuse, neglect, abandonment...etc...

    Must edit this again...
    #6. This has nothing to do with puppy mills, puppy mills should not even be phrased in the same sentence with actual rep. breeders. They should be shot and/or treated the same way they treat their pups.

    #7. If I am not believed.... Not that I have the time, but I have had to keep folders on each animal, wether it be a tarantula or rat, or dog, cat, snake, pig etc...I have all the background and situations and the sorry ass reasons/excuses why people could not keep them.

    Please note that 90% of our animals were dogs and cats. We had a lot of different types of animals, but we had more dogs and cats than any other animals. This is the one reasone so many animal rescuse animal orgainizations loved us, we rescused older animals, trained them, exercised their minds, gave them medical treatment, payed up the a** in vet bills, gave them love, support and made them "stars." Then we found them FINAL homes to 'retire' and repeated the cycle.

    Again, I have done animal shows all over the country and have relationships with vets all over, with rescue organizations all over, including "exclusive rescue breeds," the USDA, which regulates animal shows....I have seen and heard about the massive waste, abuse and neglect...NOT always coming from breeders, but yes, some, but from the "humans" who want to aquire a dog, cat what ever.... so unless you walked in my shoes......say what you want. I respect what you have to say, it is your right. But, why don't you walk in my shoes for just a mile.

    There have been several posts made by me saying that I was angry and "took it out on this board." Since then, I have made some great friends... "friends" that at first blasted me until they pm'd me and we "talked." Now, we see each other as friends and now have fun. I have seen some of the above posts about me, but I have yet to see a "real" postive post or a "real" anything in reagards to breeding more animals. Not to start a fight, but more of a nice debate... How many of you, who posted have "saved" over 300 unwanted animals, or are even in the business of doing so???????

    We even "saved" 3 dogs that didn't make it through Customs Training. So at least 3 of our dogs, 2 German Shep. and one Collie, all of which came from "rep." breeders, U.S. Customs "got" them, the dumb ass trainers thought they were "untrainable," put them in the Atlanta Humane Society, and we were called and rescued all 3, and they were SOOOOOOOOOOOOO trainable, and did more than their share. All 3 could have easily gone through the training process. As a matter of fact, to prove u.s. cutoms wrong, we did that type of training and incorporated that into our shows, letting guests know the importance of bomb sniffing, police attack dogs, and cadver rescue.

    As for the above posters, if none of the above defines you, than I have nothing bad to say to any of you. But, yes, after all these years I want to scream from the roof tops, don't you? I know some of you must be in touch with your community and can't stand the ignorance and abuse. It comes to a point where anyone gets fustrated. Even if I came across harsh, I would seem to think that at least some of you were on my side. No matter, I will still continue to do what I do....

    So again, before you blast me, let me lend you my sneakers....
    Amy Baldwin
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2005
  17. Ash47

    Ash47 Taco Dog

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    AnimalBiz,
    You do make sense in saying that all breeders breed to make money. If you were well educated in this area, you would know that GOOD breeders never make money. If you are interested, there is a stickied post either in this forum or the Puppy Forum that is appropriately named 'So You Think You Know It All?' It explains how a good breeder operates. I, too, think that way too many dogs are bred. I think they should be licensed and few and far between. The breeds have to keep going because they have served a purpose for several years. There are people that make breeding "their business." Those are the bad breeders.
    No one looks down on you for disagreeing with too much breeding. We all do. Most of us think that breeders should be licensed and put out a spay/neuter contract with their puppies. The GOOD breeders on this board take back their puppies when the new owners decide that the puppy is too much for them, they take that puppy back.
    Also, that is great that you have taken in 'over 300 rescues.' A lot of us on here have taken in rescues. Rescue is wonderful! I myself have 4 rescues and one purebred. But, I don't think numbers matter really. I think everyone should be involved in rescue at least once. Just to see the reality of things. I think it's a good idea. But, as I have said before, you can't push what you believe on someone, because the more you push, the further away they get. I guess you can take what I say with a grain of salt. I know I can't 'bring you to the other side.' I am just explaining that you can agree with rescuing and breeding at the same time. Responsible breeding. None of us agree with irresponsible breeding. I hope this post makes a little more sense than my above posts.
    I know I feel better. ;)
     
  18. Manchesters

    Manchesters Guest

    ANYONE who says that educated, responsible breeders breed to make money is a horse's patu. Educated, dedicated, responsible breeders breed to improve upon their chosen breed. They very often will place puppies out on co-ownerships, with no money exchanging hands. Most breeders take at least 25 years to even BREAK EVEN. Again, I wish people would save their harrangues for those things they know about!!!!!!!
     
  19. Ash47

    Ash47 Taco Dog

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    That's another way to put it Manchesters :)
     

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