When It's Bloat

Discussion in 'Dog Health Care' started by shadowfacedanes, Mar 25, 2007.

  1. Spiritus

    Spiritus New Member

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    I agree with Saintgirl. I don't believe eating from floor level causes neck and back strain. Dogs were created to eat this way and if it truly was a problem, they would have evolved to have necks like horses. And, when it comes down to it, even if there was neck and back strain, what's worse, a sore neck or death from bloat. The threat of bloat is just too much of a threat. It almost always means death.... :(
     
  2. carlar

    carlar Dog Lover Boutique

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    I know almost nothing about this, never really heard of it before. Is it just large dogs that get it? What causes it.
     
  3. killerz298

    killerz298 New Member

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    I put a large rock in his bown and that has seemed to slow him down greatly. I am going to look into the issues about the raised feeder and maybe I will lower it to the medium setting instead of high as a compromise.
     
  4. SummerRiot

    SummerRiot Dog Show Addict

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    Such a fabulous post!! Thankyou!
     
  5. midnightbirdgirl

    midnightbirdgirl New Member

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    Boy, this gives us all cause for pause. I am glad you baby is doing well. I have vet insurance so I never second guess.
    This just reassured me I am doing the right think by having it.
    MBG
     
  6. snorzzz

    snorzzz New Member

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    My Belle, because of bad hips and old age, has begun eating while laying down. Is it dangerous for a dog to lay down and eat? She lays on her stomach, with the food bowl between her front legs.

    Now I am concerned about this. :(
     
  7. shadowfacedanes

    shadowfacedanes *Biter*

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    Wow, sorry I haven't replied to these. (Blush)

    Carlar, no it's not just large dogs that bloat. Primarly deep chested, larger breeds such as Great Danes, Irish Setters, Wolfhounds, Shepherds, etc are at the highest risk, but smaller dogs such as pugs, doxies, and beagles have been known to bloat as well.

    The cause is still unknown. Some signs point to genetics, but no one knows for sure.

    Snorzzz, I wouldn't be too concerned. Hannah now eats laying down on occasion. Honestly, in my experience, it's not the heighth that they eat from that is a contributing factor. Hannah bloated nearly 10 hours after her meal, so I don't really feel that how she ate played too much a part in her bloating. Gulping, and eating while stressed, however are big risk factors in my opinion.
     
  8. K9Obedience.com

    K9Obedience.com New Member

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    I have written an article about Bloat should anyone want to know more about this life threatening condition.
    http://www.k9obedience.co.uk/dogtrainingforum/viewtopic.php?t=88

    My daughters GSD developed Bloat whilst in boarding kennels, not from exercising too soon after a meal but simply from drinking too much water as the day was very warm. This combined with the stress of being in kennels caused him to bloat. I raced to the vets and arrived as the dog was being lifted into the surgery. I cannot describe just how awful it was to see my daughters great big GSD in such pain and distress. His mouth and muzzle was covered with frothy white mucus, his sides were heaving and his heart was racing. As the dog collapsed on the floor he was rushed into emergency surgery. He had full gastric torsion, in other words his stomach had totally twisted cutting off the blood supply to various organs. The first thing the vet had to do was stabilise the dog by putting him on a drip to get vital fluids into him. Then he was cut open, his stomach was emptied and sewn onto the abdomen to prevent it twisting again. His spleen had to be removed. We were told that he did not have much chance of surviving as at 12 years old there was a real danger of him suffering heart failure.

    Thankfully his heart wasd strong and he is now fit and well. Were it not for the quick thinking of the kennel maid the old dog would not be with us now. If anyone suspects that their dog may be bloating seek veterinary advice immediately as every second counts if the the animal is to be saved.

    dog lover
     
  9. Jessiep

    Jessiep New Member

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    Thanks for the very important information.

    I work at a doggie daycare/kennel and we require that ALL dogs are rested for 1.5 hours after a meal to prevent bloat and that no dogs are fed an hour before visiting us.

    The studies I have read have all showed that raised feeders don't make a difference.

    I guess some dogs are just pre-disposed to it, but there are certainly ways to reduce the risk.
     
  10. shadowfacedanes

    shadowfacedanes *Biter*

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    My opinion of the purdue bloat study (where the insinuation that raised feeders contribute to bloat originated) is the same as Linda Arndt's...

    About Elevated Dishes

    Anyone that has owned these dogs, knows that every single book written about Great Dane or giants, regardless of how old the book is, states we need to elevate the dishes. That means, the majority of giant breeds in this country are fed from elevated dishes and in fact, it was Vet schools such as Purdue that taught us to elevate the dishes years ago. Even without that information from breeders, books or veterinarians, it is obvious to an owner, the dogs are more comfortable with their dishes elevated so they do not have to strain to eat. This information about elevated dishes is taught by breeders to buyers, by vets to clients, by books on the breed to the new puppy buyer who is trying to educate themselves.

    The majority of dogs involved in this study, were owned by Great Dane breeders or dogs purchased from Dane breeders, and that is where the owners received the information about the bloat study. With that information in mind, it is logical that the majority, if not ALL of the dogs that came in to Dr. Glickman's survey, have been fed with an elevated dish. This is simply how he came to his "opinion" that elevated dishes cause bloat. Also you need to know most of the dogs that were viewed in this study were seen-chest measured, while they were at a Great Dane Specialty show or at the Great Dane week long National Specialty which means all the dogs tested were actually owned by professional breeders. Virtually 99% all the dogs measured would have been raised with elevated dishes, hence the high numbers in the study.


    (in my opinion, that is the same logic as if you see a pregnant woman with pierced ears, that means every woman with pierced ears is pregnant ).


    There is, as of now, only correlative speculation, not causative as to what causes bloat. I know there is some research being done at the present to try to identify a genetic marker. One can only hope this is successful!
     
  11. mrose_s

    mrose_s BusterLove

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    Thanks for posting this. I get pretty paranoid about Sophie bloating, she's fed on top of a milk crate now,.
     
  12. Saintgirl

    Saintgirl New Member

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    I have to disagree with the majority of the dogs involved in the purdue study being Danes. The original study looked at 1920 different dogs of which only 216 were great Danes. The number one breed at 298 was Newfoundlands and then 264 Irish Setters. Interestingly enough the #2 breed behind Danes to suffer from bloat in the purdue study were Akitas followed by Bloodhounds and then Weimaraners. Although large breeds and not giants Akitas and Weimaraners are not noted breeds for needing raised feeders for the 'comfort factor'.

    Although I am not familiar with Danes and the percentages of owners who choose to use raised feeders, I do not think that the purdue study soley reached its conclusions based on Danes and raised feeders when other smaller breeds rated on the top of the scale as breeds at risk who were also extensively studied. Although I could be wrong, and the second study could have looked almost exclusively at Danes and their feeding habits to determine that there was indeed a correlation.

    As an owner of a giant breed, a 190lb 34" at the shoulder Saint Bernard, I do not think he looks any more uncomfortable than my beagle when they are eating. Physiologically he does not exert any more effort bending his neck to the floor than my beagle does. Although my beagle is closer to the floor, his neck is proportionate to the rest of his body just as my Saints is. If I broke their body sizes down to the same size on a scale they are both bending the same distance proportionate to their own bodies. Albeit a Dane does have a longer neck than a Saint.

    I think it is important to let owners concerned about bloat and gastric torsion aware that there is a very high correlation between bloating and elevated food dishes. In the end owners should choose what they think is best for their dogs and what they are comfortable with. It is also important to point out that it is only a correlation and the reasons behind it are unknown. I like you believe there is a genetic factor and am mostley concerned about stress and the correlation between that and bloating.

    I would be very interested in seeing a study based soley on 50% of the dogs studied using raised dishes. With the last purdue study released concluding on such a high correlation I am sure that we will see more tests and results on these findings.

    In the end, bloat is terrifying. I am so sorry that you had to go through it.
     
  13. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    i just wanted to show this as well just in case it could be of any help because yoshi didn't show each phase. red is what yoshi showed

    PHASE1
    SYMPTOMS:
    1. Pacing, restlessness, panting and salivating.
    2. Unproductive attempts to vomit (every 10-20 minutes).
    3. Abdomen exhibits fullness and beginning to enlarge.

    ACTIONS:
    Call Veterinarian to advise of bloat case enroute. Transport dog to Veterinarian immediately.

    PHASE 2
    SYMPTOMS:
    1. Very restless, whining, panting continuously, heavy salivating.
    2. Unproductive attempts to vomit (every 2-3 minutes).
    3. Dark red gums.
    4. High heart rate (80 to 100 BPM).
    5. Abdomen is enlarged and tight, emits hollow sound when thumped.

    ACTIONS:
    Apply first aid if Veterinarian care is more than 10 minutes away.
    Then, transport dog to Veterinarian immediately.

    PHASE 3
    SYMPTOMS:
    1. Gums are white or blue (Could not tell on Hannah-dark gums)
    2. Dog unable to stand or has a spread-legged, shaky stance.
    3. Abdomen is very enlarged.
    4. Extremely high heart rate (100 BPM or greater)and weak pulse.
     
  14. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Please keep us posted !!!
     
  15. K9Obedience.com

    K9Obedience.com New Member

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    Our 10 year old GSD has just suffered with bloat whilst in kennels. It was the most traumatic experience ever and thanks only to the sharp eyes of a 14 year old kennel maid, our dog was saved by emergency surgery. He isn't himself though afterwards and i don't think he will ever be the same dog again, but he is still with us and still loves life so thats the main thing.

    Bloat happens SO fast and without someone who can spot the signs, it can so easily kill a dog in no time at all. We are counting our lucky stars.
     
  16. Kayota

    Kayota New Member

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    Oh God... I hope to God Padfoot never gets bloat, because guess what...? my mom would not pay the bill. She would not find an E-Vet if it were the middle of the night. She would not believe me even if I screamed at her that it was bloat.
     
  17. youhavenoidea

    youhavenoidea I love my Weimaheiny!

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    I didn't read this whole thread, but being as I own the breed currently listed as #3 on the list of breeds who most commonly bloat, I have made it my business to inform myself as much as possible.

    Although not the be all and end all factor that will likely cause or prevent bloating, I just wanted to mention, that although at one time, it was thought that elevated feeding could PREVENT bloating, it is now NOT recommended for bloat-prone breeds.

    Just an FYI.
     
  18. K9Obedience.com

    K9Obedience.com New Member

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    Exactly Right

    Totally TRUE! Yes, we are in the process of updating our breed profile on large and bloat-prone breeds to reflect this new research which suggests not only that elevated water and food bowls doesn't help prevent bloat, but that it CAN make it MORE LIKELY. I am not sure of the reason, but i had a communication from a woman involved in the research herself, and she explained how it is a myth, and i can well believe it too, how unnatural is a raised food bowl anyway? Dogs eat from the floor, and generally, large breeds tend to eat slower due to the increased stress on their internal passages from eating further away from the food (i.e. on the floor). By raising the bowls, it is suggested that MORE food can be ingested and at a faster rate, which as we all know is a sure cause of bloat.
     
  19. borzoimom

    borzoimom Couch Pototoe City

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    I lost a shepherd to bloat years ago. While we took her right into the vet, the vet that saw her diagnosed it as " gastic upset" medicated her and said to take her home. Being slightly sedated, she died in her sleep as not having the operation. It was horrid.. ( needless to say I never used that vet again..)
     
  20. K9Obedience.com

    K9Obedience.com New Member

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    Tragic, so sorry for you.
     

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