"What's done is done."

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Babyblue5290, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    How many of you guys agree with that sentiment? what does it mean to you?

    Does it mean:

    -1) "you got a puppy and it's cute, now that you got it then we will just show you how to raise it and say nothing about getting the puppy. Now that it's here talking about how you got it is wrong and useless. No one should say anything about why/how/etc you got this puppy! It doesn't matter anymore."

    or

    -2) "you got a puppy and it's cute, now that you got it then we will show you how to raise this puppy, but you should also realize what you did wasn't necessarily right. And discuss your decision and why you probably shouldn't have gotten the puppy {insert: the way you got it; time you got it; thinking of the future; who you got it from; where you got it; the breed; ect.)."

    or

    -3) "you have a puppy, what's done is done it's very cute."

    or

    -4) "{Add your own}"

    or

    Do you not agree with the sentiment that "what's done is done"? why?


    ***PART TWO***

    Also, what do you think will make a person learn from their past mistakes? As we all (I think) think people should learn and not make another mistake, what do you think is *enough* to make people see their past mistakes.

    Do you think you should:

    1) just briefly mention why what they did was wrong and why, before telling them how to work on their possible future problems.

    2) Briefly say what they did was wrong, before telling them how to work on future problems.

    3) Tell them in length, with examples or not, why what they did was wrong. Then go on to tell them possible consequences of their actions. Then tell them how to help now.

    4) Tell them in great length how they messed up, why, the consequences that will likely happen due to their actions, how they have added to the problems of dogs now, dogs in shelters, etc.

    5) Don't say anything, not like they will change anyways! People are hopeless.

    6) Add your own.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  2. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    I don't agree.

    Too often people try to keep it all happy as it is already bought and home. Which often entails not talking about where it came from to prevent a future 2nd what's done is done. Lot of people on other forums I've seen bring home 2 and 3 badly bred mill, byb dogs cause people were too nice about where they came from to educate.
     
  3. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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    Well, of course what's done is done unless you have a time machine that you've not informed the world about.

    We should educate and that means;

    1. informing the person that getting a dog from a puppymill/supply store/irresponsible breeder/guy in walmart parking is not okay and here's why...


    2. letting them know that they've got a long road ahead of them and offering them books to read, threads to read and people who can be of assistance.

    3. being a forum in which we discuss things and not berate people for past mistakes... allowing them to make one and learn from it.. you know, much like life, because we have ALL made mistakes and we have- hopefully- learned from them.
     
  4. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

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    I think it lies somewhere between #1 and #2.

    The first order of business is to get the pup taken care of properly, THEN tackle the ethical issues. After all, you've got a lot more ethical issues if that pup isn't taken care of - and if we run people off when they need help, then WE have some responsibility for the outcome if it's bad. We could have helped, but we harmed.

    Once we help someone get the situation squared away, and they realize we aren't attacking them out of self-righteousness, THEN is the time to delve more deeply into why it wasn't such a great idea to get into the situation.
     
  5. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    How 'bout a second question. :D

    ***My feelings****

    I don't agree with the general statement "what's done is done." Not because what's done is not done and you can change it, because it seems to go along with a "can't change it so don't even think about it" sentiment. Like you shouldn't even worry about your actions, it doesn't matter.

    And the second part I'm a mix between 3 and 5. Mostly 3, but sometimes I feel like some people will never learn because they just don't care.
     
  6. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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    I wonder how effective this notion of educating, "in great length how they messed up, why, the consequences that will likely happen due to their actions, how they have added to the problems of dogs now, dogs in shelters, etc." is going to really help a person who is in such a defensive state by the number of posts made attacking his/her person. I wonder how one will really listen when all they hear is how wrong they are and how they've contributed to the problems of dogs. I wonder how we can phrase things so that we are educating and not attacking...
     
  7. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    I don't believe anyone (so far) has agreed with that one. ;)
     
  8. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    I agree with what's done is done, to an extent. If someone goes out and gets a puppy from a BYB, chances are they aren't going to take that puppy back just because Chazhound.com forum members say it was wrong. As a forum I feel it is then our responsibility not to chase this person away with scolding, but to offer advice for raising a puppy that might not have the best genetics and socialization behind it.

    My opinion lies somewhere between 1 and 2. While I think it's important to bring up the fact that what the individual did wasn't necessarily ethical, repeating it OVER and OVER and ragging on them about it isn't going to be any help. Say what needs to be said and move on, if you (generic you by the way, BB) have something helpful to contribute then say it. Otherwise leave the person alone. Yelling at them isn't going to solve a **** thing.
     
  9. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    As for part 2, I think it depends on the person. If someone else has said what they are doing is wrong, then I don't need to throw in another post just to say what a previous poster said, in my own words. If I have advice to offer I'd post it and add a few words of agreement with a post that summarizes my view, if there is one already. Otherwise I'll throw in my view.

    I think it's important to realize that often times people feel that they're doing the right thing when they go and get a dog from a bad situation, so they're going to be shocked and defensive when they're told it's unethical.
     
  10. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    You know, you shouldn't do that again, due to XYZ. Furthermore, you may have problems due to that... since you now have a puppy however, this is how to keep it in one piece physically and mentally....

    While I don't agree with byb or puppymilling I have better things to do than berate the puppy buyer.... like berating the breeder that should know better...
     
  11. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    But many of the breeders don't care, the buyers (most) do because they are dealing with the fallout.
     
  12. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    Yes, so the buyers aren't likely to do it again after come gentle prodding to petfinder or good breeders. No need for long lectures on ethics or berating (as has happened a couple times...).
     
  13. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    What if said person has done the same things multiple times, despite gentle prodding? What would you do then? More gentle prodding, hoping one day, after all the past puppies, they wake up to realize that just might not be the best way to go about things? (not being sarcastic here, I'm seriously asking waht you (personally) would do then.)
     
  14. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    Apples and... watermelons

    In that case, its much different than someone who did it out of ignorance... at some point nothing you say is going to work, but then I doubt they'd follow training/health advice either, so I'd stop worrying about scaring them off.

    Luckily, they seem to be the minority on here.
     
  15. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    Both apples and watermelons are semi-round fruits. ;) Some apples green, some apples red, and some yellow. Watermelons are red, green, and yellow(ish). heheh. Not necessarily completely different things.

    What if both did it out of ignorance. One did it over and over again because they where ignorant to their true harm, and the other well....did it once but for the same reason even if both had resources available to them that it was wrong for them if they so looked. Not that they would if they really didn't know better.

    Or if both where here on chaz for a long time. Read about puppymills/byb's and such, yet still claimed ignorance. Or did the same things over again?

    One thing doesn't mean they won't listen to another. They may agree with training, or up front agree, but justify themselves for doing the same thing (that most) believe is morally wrong over and over again.
     
  16. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I do not agree with the statement; "What's done is done." HOWEVER, I am willing to move on if and when I feel that the person understands the moral conflicts involved, and are sympathetic and regretful about mistakes. I would never scold a person who is truly remorseful for supporting a BYB/PM/whatever, and truly understands the problem with doing so. Everyone makes mistakes, and there is shockingly little knowledge in the general public regarding how to spot bad breeders.

    I definitely feel that it isn't what you say, it's how you say it. If you attack some one who has done something that you don't agree with, they are instinctively going to become defensive. You're most likely just wasting your time and energy, because your advice will probably be ignored, completely. If you offer supportive, gentle advice and information, you will usually get a much more receptive response... and your advice will usually make a MUCH bigger impact.

    I don't agree with turning the other cheek, and ignoring wrong-doings, at all. Apathy is useless. But I find personal attacks, on a dog forum, very childish and rude.
     
  17. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    I agree for the most part. Though with the internet, not only is the way you say it important, but the mindset of the person reading it is important too. If they anticipate aggression, all they will hear is agression and start defensive in the first place.

    But also, if you're too passive, what are the chances someone will "hear" your message?

    And then agian, what's too passive and what's childish and an attack? Those are so subjective. What one person thinks of as an attack, may have not been seen as such by another.
     
  18. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I agree, with not being too passive... I have been too passive with giving friends & relatives advice in the past, and they have ended up with BYB/PM puppies... a few of which turned into absolute horror stories. But, then again, you cannot force people to listen to you. All you can do, is give them as much good advice as you can. Some people just DON'T listen, no matter how good your advice is, and that isn't your fault, and it isn't anything you can control.

    To me... name-calling, personal judgement, and blatant rudeness is childish, and what most would consider an attack. There are hyper-sensitive people who consider almost any kind of criticism an attack; but there are generally obvious differences between constructive criticism and personal attacks.
     
  19. Buddy'sParents

    Buddy'sParents *Finding My Inner Fila*

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    If it's even questionable at all- it should not be said. We should all read and re-read our posts before hitting submit, too easy to get caught up in the "educating" moment.
     
  20. Babyblue5290

    Babyblue5290 Happy Meal. Yum.

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    Questionable to one isn't questionable to another though. It may not sound bad to you yet someone else takes it as offensive.

    I agree, everyone should re-read their posts before submitting it.

    We are off subject. Back to the original subject please.

    Original Subject: Do you agree with "what's done is done" and the sentiments that go along with it. etc.
     

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