What is the right breeder worth?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by AliciaD, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. AliciaD

    AliciaD On second thought...

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    I found a great breeder I really like. Even though I'm not in a position to get another dog (in school) I'm still browsing, finding ones I like, ones I don't, etc.

    This breeder is... interesting. Intense, haha, but in a way I like. There's no one in my family/friends I can talk to about this because they would stop listening after hearing the price!

    What is the right breeder worth? Did you have to jump through hoops with a breeder? Did the breeder you went through have special requirements (the one I'm looking at requires a 3 day visit when you pick up the pup, which I have not heard of with other breeders, but isn't exactly a bad thing)? Were they far way (I'm in NH, they're in California, feels like the other side of the world!)? What would you be willing to do?

    I haven't seen their contract yet, and I know that will impact a LOT. I already know I won't sign a contract stating I MUST neuter (but I may sign a no breeding contract). I won't sign a contract saying that they can take back the dog at any time, for any reason, etc.

    What did you go through? Or if you are a breeder, what do you require of potential buyers?
     
  2. momto8

    momto8 New Member

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    The right breeder is worth everything to me! I met my breeder last yr, and do not plan to get a pup from her till 2013. I would not say she made me jump through hoops, but she did request alot of info and it is very important to her that we build a relationship before her dog is even bred. This is very important to me as well, and we have started building a wonderful friendship! This person will be in my life for the life of my dog...most likely much much longer. She is there for me to support me, offer me advice ect, she is family now. So..to me a great breeder is the whole world!!
     
  3. AliciaD

    AliciaD On second thought...

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    That is definitely a beautiful way of putting it!
     
  4. -bogart-

    -bogart- Member of WHODAT Nation.

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    all depends really , for me a great breeder will health test and do a basic background to make sure the pup and i are a right match. beyond that , if i never hear from them again its cool and if they want to informally chat a couple times a year , that is cool also.


    But the crazy contracts , turn me off completly , like the rescue thread going , there are some breeders are just ridculas.
    i will never sign an agreement about fences , crates , food , reproductive rights , or even rehoming. once i pay for that dog it is mine. there will be no one else to have a say in any way.

    Contracts are the debil and i hate them. i know in todays world they are a necessary evil .
     
  5. Kat09Tails

    Kat09Tails *Now with Snark*

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    Right breeder, right puppy/dog, right pedigree, right contract, sane price. It is really like the stars aligning.

    I can't tell you how many deals I had fall apart on a detail or three on the purchase of my last dog. Cute puppy-exceptional sire - too high of a COI - walked away, nice dog/exceptional pedigree - insane terms on the contract - walked away, good contract terms, young puppy, too high of a price for the risk taken - walked away. The list goes on... and on.

    I came to terms with awhile ago with what I would and would not put up with in a contract, what a reasonable price would be depending on a pedigree and age of the dog (uncommon desirable pedigree and older age to age six being worth more than a 8 week old puppy from very commonly used lines). I also came to terms with what I would and would not put up with in a pedigree (I will not linebreed or purchase heavily linebred purebred dogs) and lines and line combos I avoid. I decided what titles were important to me, and what made no difference to my decision at all.

    Price to me does matter but only in the sense of how much risk to gain there is for a potential puppy/dog. Personally my preferance is a green dog about 8-18 months old for my purposes. Less risk and more understanding of what exactly you are buying into. These dogs should cost more - because they are less crapshoot than an 8 week old. But again, this is for my purposes which isn't exactly the same as a normal pet buyer.
     
  6. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Basic terms of my contracts:

    Spay/Neuter by 6 months. Although if a responsible dog savvy person came up to me and laid out the reasons they did not want to alter at that age and wanted to wait until the dog was mature, I would be more than happy to work something out.

    Limited registration on pet puppies. Non negotiable.

    Non Breeding contract with most show puppies. If someone I knew was a breeder and a good one, I would be happy to not sign a non breeding contract. Contract could/would be lifted upon Ch title (or Working), and health testing passed.

    Dogs come back to me if they need to be re homed. No exceptions.

    I reserve the right for 2nd pick puppy (from first or second litter) should a bitch I bred ever be bred.

    If the dog is not fed a premium kibble or proper raw diet then the health guarantee is void.

    If the dog is neglected or miss treated I WILL repossess the dog. Period.

    I dont like tie outs as a dogs only form of containment, but I realise that sometimes they have to be. No fence is not a reason someone won't get a puppy from me. I dont feal a clause saying the dog can not be tied up ever is enforceable or reasonable. What if the family goes camping, ect... I do say that a dog should not be left outside tied up unattended.

    I will not be responsible for temperament problems that arise. I will do my best to breed sound individuals but I can not control the socialisation (or lack there of) after a puppy leaves me.

    Owners MUST inform me if/when they move and their new address, phone numbers and email (If changed)


    Every contract is slightly different and everything is some what negotiable depending on the person/dog. Also if you do not have similar ideas on dogs as a breeder you should probably not be getting a dog from them, as it will only cause potential problems down the road.


    I do not sell pet/show potential pups at 8 weeks old for different prices. Dobes are cropped/docked the only exceptions is if the health/size of the pup does not support cropping.

    I sell my puppies for around the same price as every one else in the area
     
  7. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    What do you mean by "right breeder"? Or rather, what's "right" about them? Their personality? Their ethics? The dogs they produce?

    I would never sign the typical contract you see coming out of show breeders. Def no spueter contract, no feeding instructions, must give the dog back/breeder can come take the dog, etc. I would agree to first buy back rights and few other minimal terms, but that's it.

    Now, if they were producing dogs I really couldn't find anywhere else, I might be willing to bend on certain things (though not on others). There's a breeder of Beaucerons who produces some of the only Beaucerons that actually work (some of them) in ringsport in the US. If I ever get a Beauc, it will be from her. Don't like her contract but as it doesn't hit my "absolutely non-negotiable" spots, I'd probably still do it.

    As for the breeder's personality, of course I want to buy from somebody who's upright and honest, and has a reputation of being helpful and professional. But honestly, my #1 priority is that the dogs are what I want/need, not whether the breeder and I agree on specifics of feeding/care or whatever.

    What I am always and will always be willing to give is my time. I am always more than happy to sit down and have a real conversation with the breeder about their dogs and myself, and how we would work. IMO that's the best way to get a dog - not a puppy application followed by some excessive contract.

    I dunno... I think I'm a **** good home for a dog. I do dog sports, I work with dogs professionally, I do tons of outdoors stuff. I don't think I should have to beg for a dog. I approach it as, "Hey, you've got a good dog and I've got a good home, let's talk." There's no reason I should have to do backflips into a headstand to get a pup.
     
  8. AliciaD

    AliciaD On second thought...

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    Is the spay/neuter contract for pet quality puppies only? Who determines if the dog is pet quality? (like, say you think the dog is pet quality or will never be a great show dog, but the owner differs and wants to show him) What if they wanted to keep the dog intact for its entire life, but never breed it?

    Who defines what is neglect or mistreated? You or the law? What if I break my leg or am on bed rest for a month or two for whatever reason and my dog is getting minimal exercise for the time, is that neglect? What if you sell a pup (or do you?) to someone across the country, who pays for it to get back to you?

    I have similar ideas as this breeder, but the pool of potential breeders is exceptionally small with a rarer breed, so I'm sure it's hard to find a perfect match.

    I'm not trying to pick apart your contract, or say it isn't good. I'm just asking because I'm still trying to decide for myself what I'm willing to sign and what I'm not. :)

    Ah. This breeder starts at more than I thought I was willing to spend. But I mean, if this dog lives to about 12 years, it's still only $15 a month.
     
  9. AliciaD

    AliciaD On second thought...

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    Of the four I contacted with just general questions about the breed, they were the only ones that responded with more than 2 sentences. They have continued to answer my questions, and have been extremely helpful. They share my views on training (Most of the breeders I found talked about dominance theory and suggested alpha rollovers). They carefully match their dogs to working and pet homes. They breed dogs capable of work and true to temperament/nature. They ask thorough questions and care about where they place their dogs. They do health testing.

    I just really like them.

    The price is more than I thought I was willing to spend though, and they are far away so there won't be many reunions.
     
  10. NicoleLJ

    NicoleLJ PSD Partner

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    This. It can be very hard to have everything mesh just right. I want a breeder that works & shows their dogs, who can show me how puppies in their lines have turned out. For example you all know my goal is to breed for pups from WGSD's that will be Service Dog prospects to donate. Well the breeder we are getting a pup from next fall shows and works her dogs and she has proven this not just by titles(which she had no problem showing me) but also videos. She also sent me info, pictures and so on of many of her pups that went on to show and do well or work. One of the pups is now an adult and is showing and doing well but the amazing thing is the dog is also a Guide dog and shown by her handler.

    I am very particular on what I am looking for temperment wise so I want a breeder that doesn't suffer from kennel blindness and can match up temperments with the right homes. I also want a breeder that knows her own stock inside and out for health issues and has no problem sharing any issues from back in the lines and such. I also want a breeder who will ask questions not just give a price and ask if I will pay it. Who wants to know what the goals are for that puppy, what it;s diet will be, what it's living conditions will be and so forth.

    Price for me is only important in that I will not pay exhorbant prices for a medium quallity dog. The one we are getting will cost $2000 and that includes shipping from Europe, FCI registration, shots and microchip along with crate and so on.

    THe stars aligning quote is exactly what it is like. Personalities have to match. I will not jump through any hoops that I would not require my puppy adopters to jump through.
     
  11. momto8

    momto8 New Member

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    My contract will have a spay/neuter contract..if I go with a pet puppy. Either way I can not breed my puppy without first having consent from my breeder. This does not bother me, I have no intentions to ever breed a dog. If I am to neuter my pup, my breeder would prefer it not to be before the age of 2..for him to mature properly, if it needed to be done for other reason's first then she would support that.
    I would not buy a puppy from a breeder that does not health test there dogs, and their pups before coming home if there are things that can be tested for at that young age.
     
  12. AliciaD

    AliciaD On second thought...

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    I probably won't breed, but if I have working&show quality, health tested, sound temperament, etc, I want the option.

    I guess it's like helmet or seat belt laws. I will always wear one, but I like living in a state where I have the choice not to.
     
  13. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    No problem. I love questions. Makes ME think about things as well.

    The spay/neuter is for pet puppies only. A altered dog can not show in CKC, and we really do not have UKC here.

    I do the grading at 8 weeks old. Since the puppies dont go home until 10(ish) weeks than that gives me and the buyers time to exchange pics, critiques and what not to decide who is pick puppy and who falls under them and were. Some dogs will be obvious pets.

    Basically I decide who is pet vs show quality with the help of friends of mine (who are very experienced in the breed and with grading puppies) as well as my mentor.

    Should you buy a puppy from me (for sake of argument) who was borderline, I would sell the puppy to you on either full registration or limited registration. Depending on the person and situation. If I sold the puppy on limited I would be happy to lift it and put full reg on the puppy should he/she turn out as show quality. This would be decided by me, with the help of handlers, my mentor, and other knowledgeable people.

    If you wanted to keep the dog intact for its entire life, well it would depend on the person. Someone I knew well and trusted 110% then yes they could keep the dog intact. If it was someone who was iffy to have a intact dog then I would either not sell them a puppy, or put the spay/neuter in place.

    As for neglect unfortunately it is the laws term. As I would have no legal leg to stand on, should I repo the dog and it was not legally being neglected, unless VERY specific things were in the contract, and even then it could be iffy.

    I would try not to be a @ss. If you broke your arm but were doing your best for the dog, then no I wouldn't repo the dog. I know what its like to deal with a @ss and I won't do that to someone. I would help you out by either caring for the dog myself (if you were close) or putting you in touch with people who could perhaps walk the dog for you, day care, ect...

    I would sell across the country if you had EXCELENT references from people I trusted. In that case we would work something out for shipping. Either a transport train, I pay half the shipping, it depends on the situation.

    As for prices (I know you didn't ask) Dobermans are $2000CND and Beagles are $1100CND. They are fairly average prices. Now, a 6 month old trained show puppy would be more, a older re home would be less (if anything). I am willing to work with people as well.

    It basically comes down to trust. Do you trust the breeder and does the breeder trust you?
     
  14. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    The right breeder will have everything *and* a decent price imo. Aeri's breeder has a reasonable contract, the dogs have everything I want in titles and health checks, she's interested in building a relationship and maintaining it but via phone/email/chat vs. a super intense application process, she does amazing foundation work with the pups, and she knows her lines inside and out.

    While the price was more than I generally would spend, it was in line with other breeders and she offered to set up payments, so that made it much more doable. I don't generally look at the actual price, but how it compares to other dogs in the same breed and of the same caliber.
     
  15. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    My understanding is that here in Canada you can't actually repo the dog if you sell it. Even with a contract, if the person doesn't want too. If you co own then maybe. One thing you CAN do is make financial penalties.
     
  16. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    I have heard that Dekka. I do plan on meeting with a lawyer before the puppies are born and maybe changing my contract around a bit.
     
  17. HayleyMarie

    HayleyMarie Like a bat outa' hell

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    For myself and in a perfect Hayley world I would like to see the breeders dogs having some titles. I also wanna see their dogs doing something other than showing. I want a puppy from parents who are adding something positive to the breed, not just looking pretty. Although for other people I dont see nothing wrong with them going to just a show breeder.

    I want the option of keeping my dog intact until the dog is fully matured, I also want to see the dogs and puppies fed a proper diet, perferably raw. I also do not want to see that I must get my dogs vaccinated every year. As I don't agree with yearly vaccinations.

    But again thats in my perfect world.
     
  18. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    I'm not going to jump through hoops. I just want a dog for companionship, otherwise I don't have anything specific I am looking for, so walking away from a breeder is not a big deal. There are others out there.

    Some things I don't mind. I would sign a contract stating I need to have the dog OFA certified and whatnot. I absolutely understand the reasoning behind that. Spay/neuter contracts, eh I don't want anybody telling me I HAVE to speuter at X age, but it is something I would discuss with the breeder before automatically writing them off. And I'm not too opinionated on that subject anyway, so if I liked everything else, I could overlook that.

    I don't remember what is in Juno's contract. Must not be too detailed lol. And I prefer that.
     
  19. Equinox

    Equinox Active Member

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    Meh, I am buying the dog, not the breeder. A supportive and friendly breeder is a perk, but quite frankly if the breeder is a total asshole, I don't care either. So long as I can trust his level of experience and honesty to pick the right puppy for me, and I get a good dog out of a breeding I personally like.

    I will not pay an unreasonable price, nor will I go to a breeder that insists on dictating what I feed, how I medicate my dog, how I train my dog, and, of course, whether or not I should neuter my dog. Any neuter/spay requirements quite frankly may just be a deal breaker for me. Luckily most of the breeders I have spoken to and want a puppy from are open minded and often "old school" in that they do not bother with contracts and whatnot
     
  20. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Are you me? :D LOL This is exactly what I think too. Right down to the old school breeder.
     

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