What is a backyard breeder?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Gempress, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. Gempress

    Gempress Walks into Mordor

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    I've noticed a few people on the board lately asking what a backyard breeder, or BYB, is.

    A backyard breeder is a person who does NOT breed in an attempt to better the breed. This can include those who breed for money, those who breed because Fluffy is "so cute," or those who simply do not follow ethical breeding practices, such as breeding within the breed standard or selling unhealthy dogs.

    Here are some of the signs of a backyard breeder:

    -They have multiple litters available, year-round
    A good breeder can only handle one litter at a time. Raising a litter of puppies properly is a full-time commitment. A breeder with multiple litters is probably not giving them the attention they deserve. Producing oodles of puppies is also a big sign of a profitmaking venture.

    -They are obviously set up as a business.
    Do they accept credit cards or Paypal? Can you buy an "extended" health guarantee? Is "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back"? Then RUN AWAY!

    -They give a puppy to the first person who pays for it.
    A good breeder wants to do an extensive interview of whoever gets one of his/her puppies. They genuinely care for their dogs and want them to go to good homes. A person in it for profit does not care where the puppies end up, as long as money changes hands.

    -They do not do health testing.
    By health testing, I do NOT mean a single trip to the vet to see if Momma dog is healthy. I'm talking about special test (like OFA or CERF) to be sure that a dog is free of hereditary health conditions, such as hip dysplasia and luxating patella. No good breeder would breed a dog that has a high probability of passing hip dysplasia on to its offspring.

    -They advertise their dogs as "teacup", "extra tiny", "super huge", "extra large", etc.
    First of all, there is no such thing as a "teacup" breed. Toy dogs bred to extremely tiny proportions can suffer health problems because of their delicacy.
    Same with large breeds. A rottweiler should not weigh 200 lbs, nor should a German Shepherd weigh 160 lbs. Breeders like this usually breed for size, not soundness, health or temperament.

    -They do not have titled dogs.
    Only dogs who have proved their outstanding qualities should be bred. This can be done by earning titles, like show championships or Shutzhund. Or, the dog can be an outstanding working dog, like an exceptional herder, sled dog or hunting retreiver. *Note: a breeder with a dog like this should be more than willing to offer a demonstration or other proof of his/her dog's skills.*

    -They belittle show titles, working titles, Schutzhund, etc.
    Since BYBs do not have titled dogs, they will often do their best to make titles seem insignificant and pointless. Look for such catch phrases as:
    -"I don't need a show ribbon to know my dog is amazing."
    -"All a show proves is that a dog can prance around a ring"
    -"Working titles don't prove anything,"
    -"Schutzhund has no relevance to a dog actually working."
    -"I will not submit my dogs to the stress of showing and competing."
    Dog shows evaluate a dog's structure and movement, to judge exactly how well a dog embodies the breed standard. Working trials and Schutzhund were developed specifially to test the skills of working dogs. Don't be swayed.

    -They boast only about their dog's "lines", such as "show lines", "hunting lines", "working lines," etc.
    While a good lineage is a plus, it's not everything. Even a Westminster champion showdog will produce pet-quality puppies in every litter. Same with working dogs: not every puppy in a litter is born with the drive or ability to work. Their German shepherd bitch may be the daughter of "Shutzhund champion Sir Works-A-Lot", but she herself might have the working ability of a pekinese.
    Go by the actual sire and dam, not their grandparents, aunties, uncles or siblings.

    -They use catch phrases to market their dogs, such as "Available in time for Christmas", "As seen in the movie Air Bud", "Great Valentine's Day present"
    Once again, that's all a moneymaking ploy. Avoid these at all costs.

    There are many more signs out there, but these are the most common I've seen so far. Hope this helps!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2006
  2. mojozen

    mojozen bullie lover

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    Can we sticky this?
     
  3. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

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  4. Whisper

    Whisper Kaleidoscopic Eye

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    Excellent post. I second that we should sticky it. ;)
     
  5. Meggie

    Meggie New Member

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    Good post. I agree, should be a sticky.

    One thing to add to your last point, maybe? "$X,XXX until "such'n'such date". After "such'n'such date" the price will go up to $X,XXX" A well bred puppy is worth what it's worth. A decent breeder who has a waiting list would have homes for the puppies long before and wouldn't offer them at a cut rate to pressure a quick sale.
     
  6. Gempress

    Gempress Walks into Mordor

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    Thanks for the addition, Meggie. If anybody else thinks of some important signs I forgot, please post them!
     
  7. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    I agree with 95% of it -
    The way one part is written is confusing.
    I have 1 or 2 litters a year and any breeder knows they cycle at the same time . I would rather breed 2 dogs at same time then have a litter every few months. Having puppies all year round to be is a eye opener or having dogs left from previous litters yet breeding again and again.
    SO i dont agree that having 2 litters at a time takes away from the pups unless the litters are huge i breed big dogs so litter size is 3 -9 pups.

    And ive taken checks online thru paypal for deps or shipping costs due after shipment.Which is active for our club memberships..The remainder of the pup has to be paid in funds cash or check.

    When you take CC's it means you have enough business to pay the 2% fee to American express etc......... But having a paypal account for ebay is not the same unless you take full payment thru add a cart type sites thru credit cards..

    No difference between a check written by hand then written online.
    I pay all my bills online now and i dont use CC's to pay them I use my bank account.

    JD
     
  8. Gempress

    Gempress Walks into Mordor

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    Good point, Planet M. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
     
  9. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    I disagree ...no BYB should have 2 a year ... they shouldn't even have one !
     
  10. cindr

    cindr Guest

    What Is A Byb???????

    Well you are right. I had a confrontation with a BYB today. So funny. I have spoken to this guy on a few occaisions and guess what he would do Just Brag about is doggies.

    Well anyhow lets start from the begining:

    I own a dog training and grooming center. We are working dilagently with the Police Services accross the board. Well to date we are putting together a program that might intrest some of you. Not all but some. This program is dedicated to one of our fellow Police Officers that was kiilled by a kid that was selling drugs. This kid just shot the Officer dead. Any how the program is SPONSOR A KID TRAIN A DOG""

    As we all know our kids today just have a sick type of attitude and need some structure. So our program is to assit these kids the opportunity to do something constructive with their time. To learn a true responsibility To stop being a VICTIM and to Stop Victumising others as well. The Cops and Crime Stoppers are all excited about the program.

    So at this time we have the expert trainers hired, the social workers interest and as you already know the Police Officers input. Good Start

    So now we need the dogs, Okay I place an ad looking for german shepherd dogs. I receive an response from this back yard breeder. Now I am not saying that the guy is all that bad but I think he needs a kick where it belongs.

    Okay now I ask him about the dog avail pic's pedigree. He said go to my website. Okay I do and none to be found. I then email him stating that he then said to me try this. Now I am getting angry. I hate time wasters. Okay I finally ask him why don't you just tell me your asking price. Wow would I get a gun blown off in my face. He came back with an out ragious price for one of his puppies from his miller home. $1800.00 on a none breeders contract!!

    I then state to him the price that you are asking we can afford although I expect this from the dog and your self Sir!!

    1) Dogs Registration papers

    2) Hip, elbow, Shoulder, eye certifications

    3) Full trainers asessments on the dog

    4) High play drive high socailablity and out going attitude and appearance.

    When all of the above is secured we then shall consider purchasing your dog and not untill.
    Well guess what I got???? Hey lady NO DEAL!! Go some where else!! I then returned a email to him and stated. We what is with the attitude? Did you honestly think that we would play into your shanigans? We do not promote Puppy mills and or back yard breeders. Especially when we are attempting to rerout kids from doing things out of the ordenary and or wrong. I then stated that we hope he has good luck with the dogs and good bye.
     
  11. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    Cindr, kudos for putting your foot down. And your program sounds wonderful, best of luck.
     
  12. letitride

    letitride New Member

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    Dang, I did not know I til now that I am a back yard breeder!!! Do I have a date with Satan?
     
  13. letitride

    letitride New Member

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    Dang, I did not know til now that I am a back yard breeder!!! Do I have a date with Satan?
     
  14. cindr

    cindr Guest

    back yard breeders

    Thank you for your compliment. I have been so tired and drained from it but you know its about helping others out there that need some structure. The dogs we purchase will be donated to either a Special needs kid or a Police Service in need. So everyone gains from this program. I just need all the freinds I can get right now. So yea thanks again. P.S The guy that called me let his dog have 3 litters back to back not ever considering to give her a rest. So yeah that is why I stated now way to the bump on the log
     
  15. cindr

    cindr Guest

    Puppy millers and back yard breeders

    Well you must have a guilty of something if you feel the way you do. So if you and satan want to dance don't let us stop you:hail:
     
  16. tempura tantrum

    tempura tantrum Shiba Inu Slave

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    Ooh and let us know what kind of shoes he has!

    I bet that SOB has Manolos...it would just figure...
     
  17. cindr

    cindr Guest

    tempertanturm!!!!!!!!

    I beleive that you are right that or Huskie x What do you think???????
     
  18. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    " disagree ...no BYB should have 2 a year ... they shouldn't even have one !"

    WhaT i SAID WAS that good breeders such as myself can have 2 litters a year at the same time this is how bitches cycle - together

    So I do agree that backyard breeders should not have one litter let alone 2.
    But the list on to of thread made it look like good breeders dont have to litters at same time..

    Good breeders can handle 2 litters a week or so apart .

    Hope i made it more clear my allergies are kicking in bad and head not so clear. Thanks Gempress :)
     
  19. MomOf7

    MomOf7 Evil Kitty taco eater

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    UMmm Its quite a task but yes I agree. A good breeder should be able to handle 2 litters at the same time. I prefer if they are spaced out a bit though.
     
  20. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

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    Well some breeds only cycle once a year thus if you are on your 3rd generation you have one shot .
    Plus when you have 10 deps for pups and you only breed one litter and it dont take - you have issues with the people waiting..

    Plus i learned when you are a breeder use it or lose it with the females uterus.
    I waited to breed my first bitch till she was 4 for big dogs this was a mistake.
    Very hard on her at that age.
    So I breed around two and spay around 6... THese are things I did not know until i became a breeder I just assumed everything would be text book does and donts.

    And the females cycle about a week apart, my breed in general does not have whelping issues and we have never had fading pups... So as long as they are not born the same week it is easier to focus your time 1x a year on pups vs 2x a year.. BEcause I spend 10 weeks with pups 24-7 no nails no dentist _ no life. So whether it was 1 litter or 2 the pups lose nothing..

    And the rest of the year i have to work my adults show my adults and farm chores and maybe some yoga.. Good breeders try to stay active in work and show and need to plan litters around those events.

    A good breeder balances all and lives by their choices for the betterment of the dogs vs them, the breed or opinions.

    My breed has high pryos this june everyone went into way to early heat cycle and I did not breed them they had pups ( 2) in Dec but all of them got checks for pryos just in case,

    Breeding is allot more complicated then all the books ive collected and the seminars ive attended..

    Not all issues are black and white . I started out believing all pets should be early spay neuter than 2 things happened neurtering young molosser males turned them into tall skinny dogs and some females got issues with bladder control. Now I require spaying by one year about and neutering much later as a option with a strict penalty for breeding pets. If they spay neuter younger than that I can not be held accountable if history repeats itself.

    Then my pick owned males with other people got killed by hunters or hit by cars leaving me in a bind with loss of entire gene pools cause i fixed everyone so young. Plus when you create on line especailly in rare breeds you need to create a line to breed too for your buyers and yourself this can not be done on one litter a year. Otherwise you force others to INBREED when i wont allow that and dont like tight line breeding as well .

    So as you can see their are gray areas and as long as the breeder tries thier best and the dogs come first they dont need to be labeled as one or another.

    Peace JD
     

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