What do I do?

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by *blackrose, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    Chloe just attacked my brother.

    Mom said everyone was sitting in the living room watching a movie and he was petting her. She just up and tried to maul his arm. Had he not been wearing layers of clothes he would have been seriously injured. As it was, he was able to pin her down until she calmed down and got away with only a few bruises.

    I wasn't there so I don't know what happened exactly, but mom said she had never seen her like this before. She normally nips or snaps, but mom said this was a full out attack.

    I can't have my family care for a dog that tries to attack then when they're just sitting there. I can't risk that happening to someone else. She does it without warning, for no reason. She will illicit attention and then turn and bite you when you pet her. This has been getting worse and I always said if she started biting and not just nipping I would have to do something. That just happened. Now my heart's dropped out of my chest and I don't know what to do.

    Do I try to have her at my apartment? She'll stress out. She'll bark. She'll attack the three munchkins if they walk by her when she's in the wrong mood. She'll be an anxious mess. I'll have to constantly worry about how she and Mike interact. Prozac didn't help. Behavior modification has only got us so far, and I can't modify her just spontaneously aggressing because there is no trigger.

    Or do I say this is it, throw in the towel, and let her go?

    I don't know what to do. :(
     
  2. darkchild16

    darkchild16 We are Home.

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    Honestly with it not being my dog I usually wouldn't suggest this but I might consider if shes safe to have around period and if I can't answer that question myself confidently I would euthanize.
     
  3. Baxter'smybaby

    Baxter'smybaby swimming upstream

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    I don't think there is any one single answer here. Is she medically/physically ok? Has anything changed?
    I'm sorry--this is such a tough thing to deal with. Do you have a muzzle for her?
     
  4. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    If I were you, I think what I would do is bring her to my place and HEAVILY manage her. Set up a crate (if you don't have room, MAKE ROOM. I live in an apt too and believe me, I get it, but you'll get creative if you need to), get a bark collar. I realize that may not help the anxiety but it will keep her from getting kicked out.

    Try different medication. Prozac's not the only thing out there. Don't have Mike handle her unless he has to for potty breaks, and then it should be just slip a kennel lead on, potty, good girl, back in crate. Meanwhile, you observe her super carefully and try to figure out what's going on and if there's anything you can do.

    In that scenario, she's spending a lot of time in a crate, I know. But in the alternative, she's dead. I can't say I would live permanently the way I described but I would do temporarily if I meant I might be able to keep my dog alive.

    All that said, this decision is totally yours. If you feel that level of management to be impractical, impossible, or inhumane, then euthanasia is probably the best option - and that's said without a lick of judgement, I hope you know that.

    And, lastly, I'm so very sorry, Andrea. :( I'm really sorry you're facing this decision, I really am.
     
  5. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

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    Letting her go is NOT throwing in the towel. (((hugs)))

    I know what I would do, but it's not usually the popular answer. I wish you the best in making this decision. No way will be easy. :(
     
  6. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    I'd go back to the vet for a full medical work up and question about other drugs. Then I'd place her in my care, because it's not fair to put that on anyone else.
     
  7. Kilter

    Kilter New Member

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    ^This. Or, managed at your mom's house, more than she is now. If she normally nips or snaps, then she needs to be in a situation where people are watching for the warning signs before she feels the need to do so. Many people can't read dog signs, perhaps she'd had enough of being petted, or he hit the wrong spot, or.... but regardless she either gave a signal that was ignored, so she attacked, or she doesn't give warnings, which is much worse.

    If you take her to your place, a barking collar MAY help her settle down. I've seen it with dogs that have come to the kennel I work at for training etc. that are major barkers and stressed. With the owner's permission (in some cases, it's train the dog or put it down type cases), the bark collar breaks the 'hey, I'm barking and getting worked up here' type dogs, they figure out 'oh, can't bark' and go find something else to do and relax, instead of standing at the gate barking like crazy. Just a thought, don't bash the collars, you have to do what you have to do.
     
  8. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

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    I thought you determined she has pain... in a leg? Were you able to get to the bottom of that?
     
  9. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    I'm sorry :(.

    I agree with Emily...have you tried her at your apartment yet? I think you have nothing to lose if you give it a go. Maybe she won't be as bad as you think. The spray bark collars work pretty well.

    It's so hard to diagnose without seeing the behavior first hand. This usually happens because of petting right? Is she giving any calming signals when someone pets her..lip licking, yawning, etc? Vision issues? Pain?
     
  10. skittledoo

    skittledoo Crazy naked dog lady

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    I know this isn't an easy situation. This has been an ongoing battle with Bamm as well. For the most part he seems to be doing better, but then he has his moments where it's like a flip of the switch and I honestly don't trust him in a lot of situations. I have to completely micro manage him to keep him and other people safe. Most of the time he is totally fine... but it just takes one quick second for someone to end up injured. I'm not going to tell you what to do since obviously what you choose to do is going to be your decision to make. I agree with the suggestion to try her at your apartment. Muzzle her if you leave the apartment with her for any reason whatsoever. Try a different kind of medication if you are willing. If you make the decision to euthanize I doubt anyone here will give you flack for it. Whatever decision you make I know I will definitely back you up and support you in that decision. Feel free to PM if you want to talk. I know all too well what it's like since I deal with similar stuff with Bamm.
     
  11. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    If it were me, I wouldn't bring her into my apartment in your situation, unless she can be muzzled until you figure out what's going on. You live alone. Can you, 100% sure, say she will not attack you one day? I know it's something nobody wants to think about, but what about when that happens? What happens when you're alone, and she attacks you -- and you don't have multiple layers of clothes on like your brother did... you *can't* get her pinned until she calms down, like your brother did? Heck, you live in an apartment... what happens when you're not home, there's a problem (fire, water main broke, whatever) and the landlord has to let somebody into your apartment, and she's in there? Would she be crated?

    If I were you, I'd think heavily about how her life would be in your apartment -- would that be any life at all for her?

    Euthanasia isn't "giving up", or "throwing in the towel". There are things in life that are worse than being humanely euthanized with your friend by your side.

    Obviously, it's a decision only you can make, and we'll be here whatever you decide to do :)
     
  12. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    I'm sorry you are going through this :(

    As far as the bark collars go, I used a Citronella collar on Frodo once, worst decision of my life. He got sprayed once and we ended up standing outside of my apartment for an hour because he wanted nothing to do with being in the apartment. I've never regretted anything more than putting that collar on him. It may work for you, but it could also completely backfire.

    Instead of the collar I would see if you can get a perscription for a fast acting anxiety drug. We use Chlonidine, but you would have to talk to your vet, or better yet a behaviorist that knows what they are doing. Any drug like Prozac is going to take AT LEAST 6-8 weeks to kick in fully, and I don't think I would leave her where she currently is for that long. The Chlonidine works quick and it really works for Frodo.
     
  13. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    Back in July she had a full blood panel done, as well as a complete physical. Bloodwork was normal. It was found that she had some arthritis in her left hip, and if she is bumped there when playing or patted roughly by someone that isn't, well, me, she'll bite. That was her leg issue. Recently she's started having urine issues...drinking a lot, asking to go out frequently, and having a few accidents when laying down sleeping. No UTI, no stones. Vets have no idea, so we just started her on Proin as a shot in the dark.

    She gives no warning signs. She has had aggression issues since she was a puppy. Everyone in my family knows her and knows what to look for regarding her signs. Her typical reaction is a brief tensing, hard eyes, closed mouth. That will take place for maybe a second, then she snaps. It was a struggle when she was a pup because my family thought aggressive equaled baring teeth and growling, not hard eyes. They know how to read her now and I've seen it first hand. She will literary go from loose, happy, wagging tailed dog that is craving attention to cujo dog that is hard eyed and snapping with only a split second warning before she reacts.

    She also suffers from severe anxiety when out of her comfort zone (aka, my parents house). I'm talking major. Her pupils dialate, she hyperventilates, she pants, she whines, she paces, she generally spazzes out. If I crate her or confine her to a room in an unfamiliar area she does the same thing. That high of a state of anxiety is no way for her to live, and that is what I'm worried about having her with me. At my apartment, maybe, I could just slap a bark collar on her and hope she doesn't have a heart attack. But at Mike's it will be near impossible. I can't confine her away from me or she'll panic. I've had her here before and she will not settle even when she's with me. Constant pacing/whining/panting. And considering it took me three years to get her to the point I could crate her in a certain cage at the groomers with her finally settling after a few hours, I'm not sure how easily I can get her to adapt to a new environment, which was why Mom was keeping her.

    She does have a muzzle, but she completely shuts down when she wears it, and becomes that much more reactive because she's feeling insecure.

    That's the issue in a nut shell. Right now I'm just...thinking. I know that causing her to live in a constant state of anxiety will be absolutely no life for her. And I can't risk her injuring someone.
     
  14. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Have you repeated bloodwork since the urine issues started? It could be kidney disease, diabetes, cushings, or any number of things that could make her feel worse - and thus act worse.

    {{HUGS}} YOU know that whatever decision you end up making will be the best one for her situation. I'm sorry you're having to face this at all.
     
  15. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    This.

    But you do not do anything while stressed and emotional.
     
  16. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    I could be wrong but I don't think Chloe has bitten her, I think it's other people.
    Euthanasia isn't giving up for sure...but coming from that end of the stick, you (general you) will feel better if it comes down to it if you have exhausted all options. The less "what ifs" you leave yourself with, the better, for your own mental state. It's definitely not an easy decision :(.
     
  17. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    Well yes, she hasn't bitten her... yet. But she also hasn't full out attacked somebody like that before.

    ETA: I mean, that's just the way *I'm* having to look at it. I'm in no way telling her that it's what she should do, just what I would ask, still.
     
  18. FG167

    FG167 New Member

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    This. I was in this position very recently and it is a hard decision to make. :(
     
  19. Rach

    Rach New Member

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    Our last girl Kazy, German Shepard/Wolf mix, would yelp and snap if touched by the back hind quarters. Months later she was having trouble urinating. I thought she had UTI but turns out she had tumor that ran from her rectum across abdomen. It was too far gone and we couldn't do anything about it. It went unnoticed. Maybe just have her medically checked again? Sorry your faced with this difficult situation.
     
  20. *blackrose

    *blackrose "I'm kupo for kupo nuts!"

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    Thanks guys.

    I can't do anything about it right now, so I'm going to just kind of put it on the backburner for this weekend and mull things over. I'll speak with my vet on Monday and see if there is anything she can recommend for anxiety purposes if I were to try her with me at my place. Maybe do another full chem. Mom has told me if she snaps again, she wants her gone. Can't say I blame her.

    For now, she's become the "no touch" dog...that'll work short term.
     

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