What breed for me?

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by BlackDog, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. Rosefern

    Rosefern New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Midwest
    My Rhodesians did the same thing. They would hold someone until they were released...one of our females held an intruder in our house (all the other dogs were crated), backed into the bathroom, for an hour.

    We lived in a safe neighborhood, in an isolated area, and we trained, showed, and bred Rhodesian Ridgebacks. We had no reason, protection-wise, for a "furry weapon", but we had many of them.

    -Rosefern
     
  2. Dictator

    Dictator New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Douge Brasileiro would fit most of your criteria. I would not suggest taking them to dog parts or leaving them off leash with other dogs. They do not start trouble but they are fast and strong, they can finish it before you can react. I live in an apartment and I have two of them. Fantastic apartment dogs.
    Boxers are very high energy. A Clumber will in no way protect. Someone kicks in your door a Clumber will then run out. Clumbers also require lots of exercise. They may be the slowest of the sporting breeds but they are still a sporting breed.

    Thank You,
    Nestor Costa
     
  3. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    17,830
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Home Page:
    AMAZING post, Sizzle. :hail: :hail: :hail:



    No one has suggested Rotties. I don't know about the exercise level, but are they a possibility for BlackDog? Maybe Redyre, J's Crew, Sunnier could give you more info.
     
  4. Saintgirl

    Saintgirl New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    941
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4
    I don't think the OP intentions were to go out and find a killing machine dog, I think that she just meant that she wanted to have a dog that she felt secure with, and personally I don't find anything wrong with that! Lots of people have dogs like Rotti's and Dobie's, and GSD because they like the personality of the dog-it matches them best AND they enjoy the security (whether real or not) that they provide.

    My Saint offers me all the joys of a wonderful companion (and as a Saint lover some of these joys include incredible shedding and slingers hanging from the ceiling!). However, if I want to take a walk at night- I can. If my husband is away overnight for work, I still have a 190lb dog sleeping in the bed beside me. Saints are not your typical killing machines, infact they are very docile and people oriented. A Saint will probably even lead a thief in to your house and help him steal the big screen TV---BUT 2 things will keep you safe here...
    1. 190lb bark and head peeking out through the door stops people from wanting to break in and steal the big screen TV in the first place.
    2. If someone was so foolish to break in anyway, they best take the TV and leave you alone, because as docile as a Saint can be they WILL become protective of their loved ones if need be, and that is one hell of a big dog to make angry.

    Also, giant breeds can make wonderful city dwellers. Just because they are so big does not mean that they have higher energy levels. Mastiffs, Saints, Newfs are all fairly low energy dogs. A good walk a couple of times a day typically takes care of any of the built up energy levels they may have. However---and a big however at that---Giant breed dogs are more expensive!! And I mean food bills (although not nearly as horrible as many would think), vet bills (they are WAY higher, even for typical things like a dose of antibiotics), you get the point!

    So good luck Blackdog, in finding the perfect dog for you! Research, research, research and you are bound to find the best suited match for your lifestyle, and kudos for you on starting your search early and not getting a dog on impulse when the time comes to add another into your life!!
     
  5. CAOgirl

    CAOgirl New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3 dogs 2 Guinea pigs
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    You want the best of both worlds it seems like... a dog that is great with everything but will protect. You cant guarantee a dog will protect unless you are going to spend the time and money in training a dog to do so... and with that many dogs fail. Once a dog engages, how are you going to call the dog off?

    There was a man on another board that had a south african boerboel... well his home was robbed and the dog did NOTHING!... Just because a breed was at one point a guardian doesnt mean it still is... And to rely on something because it was stated in a book, is rather silly. And then if you insist on pure breeds, then make sure you see the parents or have them evaluated in willingness to protect

    With own guardian breeds, you always need to be a step ahead of them and to always remain working with them.

    What happens if you are out without the dog and something happens? I think there are better ways to keep yourself safe vs having a dog to do that.

    apply for a license for a gun, learn how to shoot the gun and learn all the laws, and a gun isnt going to fail on you. Dont walk with earphones on or talking on the cell phone, stay alert, etc...

    IMHO most boxers will kiss the intruder that is trying to cause harm...

    and you are going to need real training classes not the clicker ones at petsmart... owning guardian breeds are much more difficult than what you think.

    I just spent 7,000 installing fencing for a quarter of my yard, 2,000 on kennels for my garage, then I spend 30 a dog per session on training which is weekly... I personally wouldnt own a guardian breed in an apartment and I have guardian breeds now, it isnt fair and too stressful for them. Think of the dogs needs and not just your own.

    Get good locks, alarms for the doors and windows, phone near by, self defense class and common sense... it will be better in the long run

    A barking dog will do just as well as one bred to guard... a person isnt going to break into the apartment with the barking dog... and if the person truly wants to cause harm to you, they will just kill the dog plain and simple...
     
  6. icklemiss

    icklemiss New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Nice post, Sizzle. But then, I am biased... ;)

    I have had two similiar experiences but both were outside rather than inside...
    In one situation, walking my red girl late at night (I lived in an even more urban, busy neighbourhood than now). I rounded a corner on a street and didn't see the guy standing behind the tree...But Zoe did! and this was a selective dog.. Dobes don't bark their heads off like demons (IMO) unless there is a threat to person or home. But she went off like I have never seen her. This guy seemed innocuous (He wasn't doing anything to me but just standing up against a tree) but for some reason, my girl didn't like him.....At the time, I was embarrassed but later that week, we learned there was a rapist in the area...Now, this guy was likely not the suspect. I don't know...
    To this day, I am certain she got a bad vibe/smell of this person and could detect it when I couldn't.

    I do know that I wondered what would happen if I was walking alone or wasn't walking the dogs for some reason??

    Now to the OP, I do disagree with the fact that you would want a guard dog instead of a watchdog...I am floored when I hear of people even getting as far as the door when there is a dog (any dog) inside...The warning bark of most guardian breeds is enough to send someone running backwards down the steps, let alone thinking all the way to enter a house with one in it...

    In all honesty, I loved my dogs for the "perception of threat" to another who wants to do harm, but there is no way I would want them to physically defend me and possibly suffer themselves...If I wanted that, I would get a gun (not really, but hopefully you know what I mean).

    The greatest sign I have ever seen is a plaque with two dobes on it on a fence and the caption reads
    "My dogs can get to this fence in 2.4 seconds. Can you?"
     
  7. BlackDog

    BlackDog Guest

    I have already said many times that I will be taking this dog to training classes. I never once said I would take them to petsmart training classes. Those are a waste of time and money!!

    I am against owning guns! You are more likely to hurt yourself or a family member than you are in protecting yourself from someone breaking in. Besides, what if I'm not there? What if the person breaking in someone gets the gun? Guns are not an option for me!

    I am not just thinking of my own needs. I will not keep a dog with high energy or too large in an apartment. I would, however, consider getting an older retired champion GSD from a breeder with a health warranty. That is a win-win situation.

    I am already going to get locks, and have a phone nearby. I don't know if the apartment would let you install alarms. I guess that would depend on the individual apartment. Self defense classes are out of the question. Last October I was diagnosed with a rare disorder of the nervous system. I wouldn't even be able to stand on my feet long enough to take the classes.


    You obviously have your mind made up about the situation regardless of the circumstances, or how valid my reasons are for wanting a dog for protection. It is NOT unreasonable to want a dog that can protect you, in my situation. A retired champion Doberman, GSD, rottie, etc...could easily do that job and have a wonderful post-showing life with me. I will be spending most of my day with my dog. He/she will not be crated or left alone for more than a few hours. A lot of times I will be taking this future dog with me to a farm at least once a week. Other times, he/she will be coming with me to my parents’ cottage up north where they live on a lake and we would do some fun water retrieving/swimming/fetch/etc…And no, this does not agrivate me health condition. Standing on my feet does. And no, this would not be the only time I would exercise him/she.
     
  8. BlackDog

    BlackDog Guest

    I agree with "the bark of a guarding breed would sent most people running backwards down the steps" part. But you can't predict what will happen in every possible situation. Using that logic no one needs a a guarding breed for any situation ever.

    You are misunderstanding what I have been saying. I don't want a dog who's going to attack without thinking. I don't want a dog who will attack if there's a way to first get the person out of the house. I want a dog that will attack only if someone is physically hurting me. And yes, there are breeds who, when professionally trained, can discern the difference.
     
  9. icklemiss

    icklemiss New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I personally have always liked Brian Kilcommon's response to people stating they want a guard dog.

    When people say "I want my dog trained to be a guard dog", he responds by saying something like "well, you would need to train your dog to sit" and they excitedly say "my dog can sit!".....And he responds with something like
    "if they can sit on a dime in an open doorway as a squirrel runs by "....and then he goes on to articulate some other "musts" the dog must have...and then and only then would he train a dog to be a guard dog...
    (I may have gotten that somewhat wrong but the essence is that there is a difference between a well trained dog and a dog that is an infallible weapon that has a 100% response in any situation.)

    Personally, it's just my opinion that you are asking for something that depends on a selective, intensive and serious training level that most experienced and wise trainers are challenged with, let alone an average dog owner.
     
  10. BlackDog

    BlackDog Guest

    Some breeds naturally have a nack for what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, my favorite, and most most qualified breed, is too large for a apartment. There are breeds that naturally think first before attacking. Yes, they still need intesive socialization and training, but can be done. And I am not the average dog owner, by the way.
     
  11. CAOgirl

    CAOgirl New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3 dogs 2 Guinea pigs
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Well if you are responsible with a guardian type dog then you would be responsible with guns... your lack of not being able to properly contain a firearm makes me weary with owning guardian type breeds...

    Guns are in a safe or have a trigger lock when not being used...

    To be honest I dont care what kind of dog you get... Just make sure you know what your getting in to
     
  12. BlackDog

    BlackDog Guest

    I do not like guns. Plain and simple. I do not want to own them. I do not want to learn to use them. It's my opinion and choice. Not everyone has to like guns and keep them if they want protection. Protection is not the only reason I want a dog. If that was the only reason, I'd just get a body guard.
     
  13. Sunnierhawk0

    Sunnierhawk0 Feelin' Froggy? Jump!

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5- 2 Rottweilers, 1 Australian Cattle Dog, 2 Betta
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Home Page:
    Well if you dont want to own/or learn to own a gun, then a gaurdian breed is not the breed for you because with some of the breeds, they are basically the same as having a loaded gun.

    I own 2 Rottweilers, and a bullmastiff, and what everyone has been telling you is correct, you better know what your doing before owning a guardian breed. My dogs are socialized from the word go, but do I ever completley trust my dogs ? No.... and you shouldn't because you NEVER know what is going to set a dog off.

    I do not own my dogs because I wanted a "weapon in a dog coat" I love my dogs, thier personailty, and everything that makes them the breed they are. But I do know that if the situation was to arise, my dogs would rise up as well. Its not something I taught them or they learned in a class, its part of many years of focused breeding and bloodlines.

    Think twice, and then think again before you go and get yourself a dog that is out of control and someone on chaz mumbles the "i told you so..."
     
  14. BlackDog

    BlackDog Guest

    " the Center for Disease Control and Prevention reports that the guns kept in the home for self-protection are 22 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill an assailant in self-defense. (Kellerman, Journal, Trauma, 1998)"

    "A national average of 289 people die of gun shot annually."

    "In 1997 and 1998, at least 27 people died as a result of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997, and 9 in 1998)."

    Guns are much more dangerous than guard dogs. I will not keep a gun! I will be getting this dog from a breeder with a life time health warrenty. I will only get a older dog with some training or a retired champion. I will be taking this dog to many independant professional training classes over the years I have him/her.
     
  15. Sush

    Sush New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, Ca
    Home Page:
    My last thought on this...a Rottie :)
     
  16. Sunnierhawk0

    Sunnierhawk0 Feelin' Froggy? Jump!

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5- 2 Rottweilers, 1 Australian Cattle Dog, 2 Betta
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Home Page:
    As much as I love and adore this breed, Im sorry but most apartments ( I do beleive you siad you were living/moving into a apartment) wont allow Rotties amoung other dogs.

    *wont promote my breed for this situation*
     
  17. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    17,830
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Home Page:
    Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said a thing.


    BlackDog.. how about this. When you move into your new apartment you get an older or a low-energy dog--of any breed, but not a guardian breed. Something with a nice loud bark and pearly whites. When you have some serious dog experience then revisit a guardian breed, but maybe start out with that breed with an older rescue. IMO this would probably work best for you. If you have a nervous system disorder and can't stand for long periods of time (I have that as well) then it's probably not the best idea for you to get a high-energy dog right off the bat. I learned this the hard way.

    And, without some dog experience, I don't think any reputable breeder would sell you one of their retired dogs. Breeders invest massive amounts of time, money, and love into their dogs, and I know of very few who give hem up when they're older, because they are family members. But from what I've read in this thread, no reputable breeder who loves their dogs would sell to you.
     
  18. Sunnierhawk0

    Sunnierhawk0 Feelin' Froggy? Jump!

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5- 2 Rottweilers, 1 Australian Cattle Dog, 2 Betta
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Home Page:

    :hail: :hail:
     
  19. BlackDog

    BlackDog Guest

    First of all, not all guarding breeds are high energy. Some are medium energy. I said I'm looking for a medium to low energy breed. Not a low energy breed.

    Second of all, you do not know ANYTHING about what type of nervous disorder I have, much less how it affects me or my being able to train a retired champion dog. You do not know what treatment I'm getting for it, the name of the disorder, when and/if its temporary or long-term, the medications I'm not for it, how those effect me. You do not know how long I can stand on my feet, or what type of standing causes the symptoms, or what strategies their are for coping will standing. You do not know how sever the condition is, how often the symptoms come, how predictable they are. You do not know what type of activities trigger the symptoms and which ones don't!

    Just because you have a disorder of the nervous system doesn't mean you know squat about mine. Do you realize how many different types of disorders of the nervous system there are???? Even if we did have the same one, which is unlikely because mine very rare, no two people with the same condition have the exact same symptoms, severity, limitations, treatment, coping strategies, medications, etc....and that makes a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE in what those people are able to do, much less their ability to train a dog.

    I have dog experience! You do not know anything about what dog experience I have! I am NOT a newbie! I am NOT a average dog owner! I have trained 75 pound German short haired pointers, large animal aggressive mixes, newfies, a German shepherd and several small dogs. I will be taking this dog for training continually throughout the rest of its life.

    STOP ASSUMING I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT I'M DOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Lastly, I'd like to thank you all, or most of you, for making it so easy for me to leave. I've been a member of this forum for years and have never been treated like this, or have seen anyone else be treated like this. This use to be a good forum with friendly, knowledgably, and caring members that were able to get their points across without belittling and assuming they know everything about the OP's situation when they really didn't have a clue. Now I see it is mostly full of ego-centric, closed minded people who look for the slightest chance to throw their pre-conceived notions about dog care/training/ownership at you without knowing the person's situation and/or dog experience.

    I'm all for education in a positive, friendly, non-belittling manner. However, this is not what's going on here. I first just answered your questions. That was fine. No big deal. Then I kept getting the same question over and over. I answered them all again. Still the same questions continued. Than it started bothering me. If you’re trying to find out something, don't beat around the bush and keep asking the same questions over and over. I never failed to answer all you questions no matter how many times you asked them. I re-explained myself many times, no matter how many different ways you asked the same thing or how crude you stated it. People who have something to hide stop answering whatever someone is asking them. I did NOT do this! Even though you said I'm not qualified to own a guarding breed because I have no experience with dogs/dog training (Which, again, you assumed this and it isn't the case!), I still tried to explain myself the best I knew how. Even when you said I can't handle a guarding breed because I can't handle a gun, (AGIAN, you assumed this! I'm against gun ownership for, not only myself, but everyone, accept the military. AND I brought in logical proof why I feel this way!!!), I still tried to be at least somewhat sensible. But now you are assuming I can't train a guarding breed because of my health, when you don't even know ANYTHING about my health, (other than not being able to stand for fighting classes.)You do not know what condition I have, what about standing in fighting classes activates my symptoms, how long they last, what happens during them, or how/if they would make me unable to take dog training classes, etc..(FYI--They don't!).

    If you say you are doing this because you love dogs "so much", than you'd be trying to do anything to help them. This includes not bashing prospective owners into the ground and assuming they can't handle ownership because of non-existent reasons you are making up that do not apply to my situation.

    If you love dogs so much you'd be happy to share your knowledge in a positive and inspiring way that makes others want to seek out your advice, learn more, and makes them see the points of your information, not your ego/attitude.

    If you love dogs so much you'd be making every attempt to know as much as you can about their situation so you can guide them to the best answer. If you didn't understand something you'd just tell the person you aren't sure what they mean and ask them to explain again. Not keep asking them in a condescending way or assume the worst possible situation.

    If you love dogs as much as you say you do, you'd do that because you'd know that's the best, and most effective, way of getting your points across and helping owners and their dogs.

    That is not what is happening in this forum any longer. Therefore, this is no reason for me to be here.

    Good bye.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2007
  20. Sunnierhawk0

    Sunnierhawk0 Feelin' Froggy? Jump!

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5- 2 Rottweilers, 1 Australian Cattle Dog, 2 Betta
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Home Page:
    ROFLMAO

    what in the hell was that.....

    I can't beleive your response to Nol... he/she was in NO way trying to say they knew SQUAT about you!!!

    Maybe its best you do leave with that attitude

    Byebye.:cool:
     

Share This Page