What are your views on cropping and docking?

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Julee, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Really, honestly IME stuff like not using the litterbox after being declawed, becoming a biter, trouble walking... after seeing literally hundreds of declawed cats over the years they just really truly aren't common problems if the procedure is done properly and there is adequate pain management.

    I'd prefer if people didn't declaw their cats. But many cats simply would not have homes if they were not declawed. Cat > claws.
     
  2. Equinox

    Equinox Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Oregon
    False. The cats actually become so overcome with grief and distress that they commit suicide following their declawing.

    True story.

    Oh no wait. That, or they actually become well adjusted and content pets with no behavioral or medical issues. Obviously there is everything in between, too, but my cat is declawed and there's no way you'd be able to tell. Doesn't bite, still kneads, uses scratching posts, uses her litter box, and has no trouble putting an 80 lb dog and an obnoxious kitten in their places. There's also been more than a handful of declawed cats where I used to volunteer and there was never an issue with their behavior. I believe the concerns are valid, but I also believe that the likelihood of those concerns arising are greatly exaggerated.

    An intact dog won't tend to roam if you don't give him the opportunity. A declawed cat shouldn't develop a tendency to bite if the cat isn't constantly put in a position to...? I'll admit I don't know much about cats, but it seems intuitive to me.

    I'm not denying that declawing sucks, because it does. My cat was declawed in her previous home and I didn't know that she was until after I made an inquiry. I personally find it an awful procedure and hearing about it makes me wince. I wouldn't ever declaw my cats, and I have met some awful, pissy cats. But I agree with the idea that if a cat has to be declawed to have a permanent, responsible home, then so be it.
     
  3. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    several
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Home Page:
    That would be it :)

    I actually had a dog here for a year or so for training that in the time I had her, went to get OFA'd and was debarked at the same time. Her owner debarks pretty much all of her dogs, whenever they are put under for something else. I got her back immediately after the debark and had her for a good 5 or so months after that. I did all of the aftercare on her and it seriously was no big deal at all. She was able to eat fine and was her normal happy self. The biggest issue was keeping her quiet for the following week so excess scar tissue didn't form. It was easy though, because she was already trained to a bark collar, so she just wore that during times she might be inclined to bark. She behaved exactly the same after the debark as she did before. No change in behavior at all.


    Yep! That is the traditional crop for the breed but yeah, you can only really see it on the SFs and the demis. It requires almost no after care either, which is kind of nice as far as cropping go. People do get asked what happened to their dog's ears though :/

    Here's another one:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    3,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    fiver
    Location:
    B-ville
    Home Page:
    I am really happy that the two Pyr Sheps I know personally have their ears and tails! I couldn't imagine either of them without!
     
  5. CatStina

    CatStina SBT Lover!!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5
    Location:
    USA
    What is the benefit of this crop? :confused: I'm genuinely curious because it just looks kind of... dumb to me.
     
  6. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    I want a Pyr Shep and I want it to have not cropped ears but for them to be pricked up anyways. And then I shall be happy.
     
  7. Shakou

    Shakou New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I personally would never do it unless for medical reasons. However, I hold no qualms against people that choose to do it, SO LONG as they have a vet do it and don't try attempting it themselves.
     
  8. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog, 1 guinea pig, 1 hamster, 1 American toad, 1
    Location:
    Illinois
    It's to keep the tips from freezing off in the mountains while they work sheep.

    Honestly, a crop like, while not particularly aesthetic, is more sensical than modern show crops.
     
  9. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    55,145
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I cannot even wrap my mind around cropping and docking, i cannot see it as anything but mutilation. I love ears and the end of the spine being cut of makes me want to weep.
    Ears are beautiful.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    30,965
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    a lot
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Home Page:
    Yep that was my thoughts too. Not as pretty but more functional. In most roughs you really can't see it either.

    [​IMG]

    I want my pyrshep to be natural all around. It seems like there are options out there but some of the breeders I like do crop or dock.
     
  11. ~WelshStump~

    ~WelshStump~ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    35
    Yeah, just barely but, but it's there! :p

    Oh, no I knew they're a C/D breed, but, I honestly never knew they just took them off strait across like that :confused:! Again, it's so hard to tell anyway with all that hair, lol.

    Wow, that's a new one, the smoother coats do show it, but I seriously thought when they said the ears are cropped I was thinking, you know like maybe a Briard?

    I get so many people that look at me funny when I try to explain that Beaucerons are related to Briards just without all the hair, then the arguments start "But they aren't cropped!" Uh, sorry but hate to break it to you those ears aren't natural all the coat just hides it well.

    Well, I don't know about fully prick but someone I know had a puppy with semi-prick ears like a Border collie, really cute! Here's Mini
    [​IMG]
     
  12. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I didn't know that. Interesting.
     
  13. ~WelshStump~

    ~WelshStump~ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    35
    Yep! Except for coat (color and length) and parts of their temperaments (probably due to fads in breeding), they're pretty much the same dog underneath. So many people don't know that Briards also have two rear dewclaws, you just can't see them with all that hair lol!
     
  14. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    3,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    fiver
    Location:
    B-ville
    Home Page:
    I think most people also don't realize that Briards are cropped. I know I didn't for a long while!
     
  15. RottenFlower

    RottenFlower rotties are my kryptonite

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    way too many
    Location:
    More north of south, but more south of north.
    This exactly.

    I doubt I'll ever own a breed whose standard is to crop, but I intend to always have a breed whose standard is to dock (even though my current representative of said breed has her tail). I am not into conformation, but most of the breeders that I'd buy from will dock their dogs' tails. I prefer the look, TBH, although my little tailed girl is quite precious as well.

    Dewclaws, IMO, are vestigial appendages that don't really serve a purpose. I think they're more trouble than they're worth, and have seen countless cases where they've been ripped off or otherwise snagged with normal play.

    That being said, I am also fine with declawing kittens during their speuter surgery, provided that adequate analgesia is utilized pre, peri and post operatively. I am less comfortable with an 8, 10, 18# cat being declawed, but there again, if it comes down to the claws or the cat (to paraphrase sassafrass), I'd choose the cat. Two of my personal cats are declawed and I've seen nothing negative in regards temperament or physical ability.
     
  16. JacksonsMom

    JacksonsMom Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    8,694
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Maryland
    I know this was a few pages back, but Jackson has his front dew claws. He's also undocked. The dew claws have never caused us any problems, more so than any other nail. To me, they're just like any other nail. To be honest though, I did not even know removing dew claws existed until joining online forums. Every dog we've had has had them, and I just assumed it was like any other nail, lol. But then again, I was so naive, that I didn't even realize people 'docked' tails - I had always just assumed Boxers, Rotties, etc, were born that way, LOL. /stupid

    I'm personally really glad that Jackson is all natural. It's just a personal preference. And it was an issue when it came time to looking at breeders of other Silky Terriers, since docking is part of the breed standard, and it's hard to find a breeder in the US that doesn't dock, and I don't think I was willing to place my bets on getting a pup and putting a deposit at 2-3 days old before docking took place. It was one of my personal issues - because I really love Jackson's tail. So that was ONE of the reasons I started researching other breeds. Though, if a perfect dog for me came by, and it was docked, I don't know if I'd turn it down simply because of that reason. But overall I prefer natural breeds. Though I love a good crop and dock on a Doberman. I much prefer the look of a Dobe like that vs. natural.
     
  17. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    several
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Home Page:
    Yep! It was definitely not done for fashion and if people are still going to crop them, I'm glad they still do the traditional crop. What would the purpose be of cropping them in a fancy crop when they have never been cropped like that? This crop requires almost no after care at all, so once it's done it's just a matter of the ears healing. No weeks or months of posting, bandaging, etc that the dog has to go through to get the "prettier" cropped ears.



    [​IMG]
     
  18. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Rear dewclaws are vestigial. Front dews are very much functional, and used. Pirate broke one of his dews when he got himself run over by my bicycle (he jumped into the wheel, it really was his own fault), and I got a little obsessive about it at the vet, that he would not have to have the toe amputated. So far, the claw hasn't grown back normally, but I'm still hopeful that it will, it often takes a toenail awhile to recover after being lost. And at least he still has the toe, so he has some of the grippy ability.

    My dogs use their dews to hold onto things, ie; bones they are chewing on while lying on their backs. They also use them to grip in tight turns, when the foot flattens out. Having seen how much they use them, I wouldn't dream of removing them.

    That said, I don't find amputation of the dew claws to be particularly cruel, it's done at such a young age, I think the pups recover without any real trauma. Declawing a cat is a much more traumatic experience, and like others, I think declawed cats are way more likely to bite. (this is based on my exposure to them when I worked for a vet, none of my personal cats have been declawed)
     
  19. LostAndConfused

    LostAndConfused Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,557
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Hudson Valley
    Home Page:
    They will take it, but then I have to get into the, he isn't an Aussie or a BC issue
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  20. yoko

    yoko New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    5,347
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Laughed at this the first time I read it...

    Still laughing now.
     

Share This Page