What are your views on cropping and docking?

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Julee, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Stuff like that kind of makes me laugh too. On another forum someone was debating having their dog's nails cut back and cauterized during his neuter. People were largely saying how doing that didn't sit well with them and they'd think the dog would be sore from it, etc. And I'm just like...ummm... you do realize she's taking her dog in to have his balls cut off right?
     
  2. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    Don't like it.
    But what am I gonna do about it?

    Obviously, I own a docked breed. I am not going to go searching high and low for a breeder that doesn't dock boxers, sooo I am stuck with that.

    It is not something I would personally opt for, if I had the choice to leave Juno undocked I absolutely would have!

    Most breeds I don't think look good cropped, and even if I did I'm just not a supporter of surgically altering a dog purely for aesthetics. It's silly to me.
     
  3. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    Gavroche is all natural, and he was a stray :p That's actually one factor that leads me to believe he's mixed, though there's the possibility that he was left nautral because he's white. There's another person in my dog club with a white, all-natural boxer that was a rescue. Looks EXACTLY like Gavroche. She doubts whether her dog is purebred too lol.

    I don't like the look of cropped ears on boxers. I do like the look of cropped ears on dobes.
     
  4. JustaLilBitaLuck

    JustaLilBitaLuck New Member

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    I think it's up to the individual/breeder. I would never condemn someone who chooses to crop/dock a traditionally cropped/docked breed, but I wouldn't condemn someone who wanted to leave them natural.

    If I ever get a traditionally cropped/docked breed from a breeder, I will probably have them done.

    Declawing, however? Absolutely not.
     
  5. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    Those that said they are OK with/prefer removing dewclaws.. what are your opinions on declawing cats?

    I mean, the main reason I hear against (and why I'm against) declawing cats is because of the amputation. Seems kind of mute if you're fine with chopping off dewclaws.

    Just curious :)
     
  6. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

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    I don't like dewclaw removal, but I'm not going to argue with someone who wants it done. I really really don't like declawing cats at all. I'd take the declawed cat over the one dumped at the shelter for scratching the house up though. I can't own cats at this point, so that's moot.

    I personally don't care one way or the other about docking/cropping your own pet. If it's docking, obviously taking an adult dog in to have a dock done is stupid if it's strictly for cosmetic reasons, and I'd hope the vet would try to educate on the pain that comes with removing a fully grown and developed appendage. If it's for something like chronic happy tail, then yes, I'd rather see the dog docked than given up.

    I really prefer the dogs with the short/working crops vs natural ears. I think if my brothers boxer had been cropped, she'd have WAY less issues with her ears than she does now. Lack of air flow/hematomas in the ear, bacterial infections, ect. I think cropping would have eliminated a lot of those problems. She's on an excellent food, and her allergies are food based, not environmental, so it must have something to do with her huge heavy ears.


    Though on breeds like Dobes, I absolutely love the long show crops, done correctly, like on Sizzles and NRAs dogs. I'd drive a very long way to have my puppies done by whomever did their ears vs letting some local vet try to pull that type of artwork off. It's supposed to complement the individual dogs head, and that's not something every vet can do.
     
  7. DobeLove

    DobeLove New Member

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    I obviously have no problem with it. I think on most natural cropped/docked breeds being all natural completely ruins the look of the breed. Dewclaws just gross me out in general, especially back ones.

    It bothers me when people make any sort of excuse for whether they support/don't support it. It's fine with me if people don't like "dogs getting their body parts chopped off." But I'm not a fan of being told my dog would be able to turn tighter/chew bones better/communicate better if she was all natural. Avril does fine just the way she is and I doubt she misses any of it. Also not a fan of people making up excuses to why they did crop. Ours are done 100% for cosmetic reasons.
     
  8. thehoundgirl

    thehoundgirl Active Member

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    I think it's all about personal preference. Would I personally have a dog cropped? No, but I have seen a few dogs at the shelter I worked with nice crops that looked good on them and they were both bully breeds. Now, Dixie's tail is docked and I don't mind it. She still can express herself with her little nub. She wags it a lot, she had her tail docked probably as a puppy when she was born or something.. I adopted her when she was 9 weeks old.

    And I really am not against removing dewclaws on dogs. They can get caught up on stuff if they are big enough in the back. Let the front ones be though unless they pose a problem.

    Declawing cats I have a problem with, they can have so many behavioral issues and yes I have seen it when people have adopted cats from the shelter I worked at and declawed them.

    Then they return them because they are not using the litterbox and pooping everywhere or they have behavioral issues. Izzy was a perfect example for that. He was adopted then declawed. And after he stopped using the litter box he was brought back. He was almost euthanized because he was fairly unadoptable. SUPER sweet cat but he just wouldn't use the litter box so he was adopted out as an outside cat.

    I couldn't and wouldn't bring a declawed cat into my home because I have dogs and they can be brats with the cats sometimes. My cats need their claws in this house. As for debarking, I think it's cruel. But that's my opinion.
     
  9. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    IMO they're not really the same. A dewclaw on a newborn puppy is more or less a floppy thing that is not firmly attached by bone, so it's not so invasive. And plus dogs are not walking on their dewclaws like cats walk on their... well, feet. You're much more likely to jack up a cat by declawing it, than you would be to have a dog notice it doesn't have dewclaws.

    This is assuming we're talking about 3 day old puppies. It does become more involved once the dog is older.

    Also note, I DO prefer that dogs keep their dewclaws (never used to care but I see how Juno has a harder time holding bones and toys without them). I just don't think it's comparable to declawing a cat. I don't care that people get dewclaws removed from their puppies, but I cringe whenever a cat is brought in to be declawed.
     
  10. yv0nne

    yv0nne Vizsla mom

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    Vizslas have docked tails ..but it's illegal in Nova Scotia to dock tails so Penny has 100% of her tail. Yay? I don't know ..Squirt has a cropped tail. I guess I just don't care as long it's done correctly.
     
  11. Tazwell

    Tazwell New Member

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    I am totally for docking for a purpose. Working Weims, gsp's, and similar breeds, I can definitely see why it's important. They tear themselves UP in the field, the tail would probably be a major hindrance... I think.

    Docking and cropping for looks? Meh. I think the cropped look on certain breeds makes them look so much more regal/intimidating/etc. but after dealing with fleetwood's ears (he came pre-cropped) was a PITA, and it looked very painful for him. Seems unnecessary, almost cruel to me. I'm on the fence about having my next puppy cropped, but since it will be from the same breeder, it will probably already be done.
     
  12. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    Personal choice of the puppy's/dog's owner.
     
  13. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    I don't own a cropped and docked breed, but I also don't see a problem with it. People who show dogs make decisions to help their dogs in the show ring all the time, and some of them are shocking to non-show people. Same can be said of working- I honestly was sort of freaked out when I saw a working instructor smacking a BC with a stock stick when he was being too pushy. Now that I'm more involved with herding, I get it- and it doesn't bother me.

    For example, when I show my dogs, I blow dry them to make them look fluffier. I stretch them out to give the illusion of more rear angulation (Especially Sadie, who doesn't have a ton of rear angles). I give them supplements to help grow coat. When I went to Eukanuba with Sadie I even chalked her to make her more white- we were up against the top dogs in the US and she got pulled for the final cut. I can't really tell you if that stuff works or not, but its what we have to do to be competitive. Do I think its ridiculous? Of course. LOL. It is all ridiculous.

    I don't think you all realize how hurtful it is to hear things like "it is just so awful for the dogs". Everyone I know who has cropped and docked their dogs are incredibly in love with their dogs and their breed... no less than you and I. Their dogs play, and work, and live a great life.

    Just, keep in mind that there is a way to disagree with something without demonizing someone who made that choice themselves.
     
  14. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    The whole thing about dewclaws... I don't like them, but I plan on leaving them on Fiona's puppies- because so many of them are going to performance/SAR homes, and I think they can be used. I am SO pissed about the vet who did Wesley's dewclaws.. he had front and rear dews and the vet did a HORRIBLE job taking them off. He has cowlicks on his rear legs where the dewclaws were, and it is really hard to make that look normal. I pretty much have to trim all the hair down and it still looks completely stupid. I can also feel where they were. I still wouldn't have left them, because the rear dews are so often loose in this breed- but seriously if you are getting dews removed FIND. A. GOOD. VET. Otherwise, your puppy buyers will be plagued with stupid looking hair sticking out of their puppy's legs.
     
  15. Michiyo-Fir

    Michiyo-Fir New Member

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    Just adding that in terms of dew claws, I actually strongly prefer them removed. Nia doesn't have them, not by my choice as a lot of Papillon breeders remove them but our other 2 have them. They catch on shirts, the nail grows weirdly, is difficult to clip, etc. Plus I prefer the look without.

    That being said, I do understand that if they are properly attached, they do serve some kind of function that can help with gripping or even turning corners sometimes and for that reason I would probably allow all my future puppies to keep them if the breeder doesn't remove them. Plus there is research that says dewclaw removal causes more injuries I believe....

    But aesthetically and in terms of convenience, I really rather not have them.

    Also on Nia, I'm not sure if it's because of the hair or what, I can't find the part where it was, I can't feel the part it used to be attached to or see any baldness, cow licks, weird hair....also she doesn't have a scar from her spay either...maybe she just heals incredibly well. I looked for a long time and couldn't find either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  16. kady05

    kady05 Active Member

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    Sako's dewclaws are removed, I prefer them that way, to be honest. He certainly has NO problem running and doing extremely sharp turns on the lure coursing field..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Wilson & Piper have dewclaws and I've never noticed a difference between them & Sako as far as them being able to do things he can't. He holds his bones the same exact way they do, etc.
     
  17. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    I'm not a fan.

    I don't think it should be outlawed and I don't demonize those that have it done (properly by a vet), I just don't care for the practice. There are dogs like dobes that I do prefer the look on, but for the most part I like the natural look. I really don't like the short crops like the ones on the mastiffy breeds, and I strongly prefer bully breeds natural. Actually, if we were looking into an Amstaff or APBT breeder, and that breeder insisted that I must have my pup cropped, that would be a deal breaker for me.

    With dewclaws I prefer them left on unless they are improperly attached-mine use their dewclaws a lot. With debarking I think it should be a last resort. If it is required to keep a dog out of the shelter, then it is what it is and better the dog be debarked than homeless.
     
  18. CrystalGSD

    CrystalGSD Member

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    I am personally okay with all of these procedures, as long as they are done responsibly and correctly. In the end, you never see dogs affected badly by these procedures, do you?

    Personally, I will never crop a dog, although I could see myself owning a docked dog in the future. I have personally been around both, and it seems as though the dogs were unaffected, so no harm done. :)
     
  19. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    I feel about docking, cropping, neutering, dew claw removal, debarking, all the same. I don't particularly like any of them but I will make the decision sometimes to do them and I wont villainize anyone else for doing them. If I neuter a male it is done PURELY for my own convenience (being able to leave them out around a bitch in heat, not having to do testicular exams, ect), just like if I have a docked dog it is also purely for my own convenience (Meeting the breed standard, not having to deal with constantly cutting burrs out of the tail, not stepping on the tail, ect)

    I will be docking the long tailed puppies in my litter, however there will most likely also be natural bob tailed puppies in my litter and if their tails are short enough they will be left natural. I haven't decided yet if I will remove dewclaws, my breed standard makes their removal optional. I think if I have a lot of performance homes lined up for the pups I will leave the dews on, If I have mostly pet homes I will remove them.
     
  20. joce

    joce Active Member

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    I don't know why someone would crop a lab but we have fosterd one that had part of an ear removed because of a giant ear hematoma. Also had dogs where vets tried to just remove the tips when there was an injury that was horrible and I did say take the whole thing I don't want to be back in two day because it happens all the time.

    And I forgot my corgi was a natural bob tail. Or so we think becaus there is nothing there and that's how a breeder told us the naturals are.
     

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