Westminster

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by MericoX, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. stafinois

    stafinois Professional Nerd

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    Yeah, when I showed Harry I was pretty surprised how floofy the other dogs were. Silly me just gave him a bath the night before and tossed him in the car in the morning.
     
  2. Sapphire-Light

    Sapphire-Light woof!

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    OMG the using of a double merle sire collie is beyond disgusting, :yikes: and a shame how AKC supports,encourage and forgives this "breeders" who are not best than millers, looking only to win cash or a trophy/ribbon at harm of the poor defenless dogs.
     
  3. Spiritwind

    Spiritwind New Member

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    I'm not saying I agree with merle x merle breedings, I do not.. and would never personally do them, however this is not the first case of this at Westminster. Check out the 2010 Sheltie results from Westminster. The sire of the BOB sheltie was/is a very popular Double Merle sire, who is also blind and deaf.



    I'm also against breeding merle to merle. I have never done this and I never plan to do this. I have personally only seen 1 double merle Collie in person, however I have seen a number of double merle shelties (all intentionally bred). However, this guys whole blog site, if having to do with Collies, is very inflammatory and misleading. It's rather clear he is very much anti-Collie based on all the Collie articles he has written and posted on that site that is bashing the breed.

    I agree purposely breeding merle x merle is something people should not do, however this guy takes any chance he can get to take a stab at collies or people who love the breed.



    The sable merle issue going on with CCA really was about 2 yrs ago. Not sure why it was brought up really. It was about 2 yrs ago, it was HUGE, so many people trying to get the color added to the standard, the club had a vote, and the results were in favor of adding it to the standard, however those head of CCA didn't agree and it was never added. I don't find this any real issue, as Sable merle Collies have always been used in the breed, and will always be used. Even if the color isn't actually added to the standard, people will show them and breed them. I have a 18 month old smooth sable merle girl (1 blue eye) who has 11 pts and both majors, picked up in 4 weekends of shows. Her brother (also a sable merle with a blue eye) finished his championship a couple weeks ago... and 2 other sable merle litter mates from that litter are pointed.

    I find sable merles very easy to tell at birth, and most very easy to tell on adults as well.

    If you read his other articles on Double merles (he has several on there), as well as some of the comments made below each article he is also making claims that regular blue merles are less healthy with higher chances of deafness and other issues, compared to sables and tri-colors.
     
  4. Sapphire-Light

    Sapphire-Light woof!

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    I wonder why this people do the merle x merle or the double merle breedings? it's because the tri colors are not as popular like sables and merles? :confused:

    I noticed the bash against collies at that page :( , I guess this is common lately? since I rencently got a magazine that has one page of info on collies saying how they fell in popularity from the Lassie days, besides the lost of ratings on the shows they were also saying it was because health problems the narrow and long skull and tiny eyes, and difficult to groom them they said they were nearly impossible to own one in a house :rolleyes: I can see some of the points but don't agree on the "near impossible" part.
     
  5. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    I will admit that I Fluffed Judge when showing him and even Aquanetted(hairspray) him to make it poof out more. LOL
     
  6. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Maybe you'll have to help me later this year with Sloan... :rofl1:
     
  7. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    LOL Maybe...but I don't think she will appreciate the hairspray as much as Judge did. I think he likes being "pretty" and that includes his toenails painted. Which I did paint black to make them look nicer in appearance!

    I have a force dryer at home for fluffing and de-shedding.
     
  8. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    I wondered about that too. All collie people I've talked to say that the sables are the most popular (thanks, Lassie). Personally I love the merles but the tris are my favorite.

    Sadly, the only reason I can think of to breed for merles is that the merles are just flashier in the show ring.
     
  9. Spiritwind

    Spiritwind New Member

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    I think it depends on where you live. In the past several years when I get puppy inquiries I've had more people interested in tris or blues over sables... but again, I think it just depends.

    As far as Collies being less popular, I find that a good thing, personally. In the Lassie days Collies were ranked in the top 10 most popular breeds, which is never really a good thing for any breed.

    Along with health, again it depends on the bloodlines. You have to be picky. Bloat is a problem in some lines, whether people want to admit it or not. I fully believe it is genetic. Eyes are a big thing, and more breeders do need to work toward better eye checks. Other isses... I just ordered 5 MDR1 test kits which I plan to do ASAP, on my younger dogs. Once I get my taxes back I'm going to start doing the DNA test for PRA on my 3 youngest dogs and once those 3 are 2 yrs old (the first one will be 2 the end of March) I'll be having hips OFA'd.

    As far as the long narrow skulls.. again I think it depends on where you live. I know many of the European collies, especially those in the UK have had some extreme head changes from what they once were 100 years ago. I find that most (certainly not all) of the collies in America have stayed similar to what they were in the early 1900s. I agree on the tiny eyes, the first couple collies I bought had these really tiny "pig" eyes, and I don't like that look, its not correct. I feel most of the dogs I have now have pretty correct eye shape. Placement could be a little better on some (Paris is a bit wide between the eyes).

    Grooming should not be that difficult if your (rough) collie has a correct coat. However many of them have really soft, fluffy open coats which are harder to groom and very inncorrect. The coats are like cotton candy. Hate this.

    Every collie I have ever sold lives in the house and has been fantasic family dogs. I have 5-6 or more in my house at any given time and they are all fantasic. Sometimes its a bit of a mad house and noisey because they love to chase eachother around the house, but they are great dogs... and outside they are just as good. HOWEVER I have heard from MANY people in Europe (especially smooth breeders) that the temperaments of the roughs in Europe are horrible.



    I love blues... love the tris.. but a good dog cannot be a bad color. If I had to choose, sables would actually be my least favorite (don't tell the dogs, 6 of my 8 are sables)...
     
  10. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    Keegan's breeder told me that of all the colors, tricolors are the most difficult to find homes for. Pet homes gravitate toward flashy blues and the "Lassie" style sables. It's probably that accursed big black dog syndrome. Personally I like all the collie colors. Maybe some day she'll talk me into one. lol.
     
  11. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

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    I've wondered this about colobomas. Have you ever seen one in a non-merle collie? It would be interesting to know whether it's genetic, or if it's a developmental defect due to the merle gene.
     
  12. Spiritwind

    Spiritwind New Member

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    Oh I have absolutely seen colobomas in all colors. The last coloboma I had in a litter was probably about 51/2-6 yrs ago. He was a rough tri male (from a sable x tri breeding and there were very few merles in the pedigree). He had a very small "pin point" (as some people call it) coloboma in one eye, that the optho said based on location wouldn't get worse and should not affect vision in that eye much. He actually lives with my mom, she took him a few months after her old collie had to be put down several years ago. I actually didn't end up keeping anything from that litter. He was the only one with a coloboma in the litter.

    I know of a tri stud dog that has a small coloboma...

    And several years ago the last couple Collie litters a friend of mine had ended up with some horrible eye checks. They were tri x sable breedings.. and she got some colobomas as well as a couple puppies with detached retinas in one eye each. It really was a mess. That was about 7 yrs ago.

    When I first started in Collies, there was a breeder I met up north who had a lot of normal eyed dogs. She almost always bred normal eye x normal eye. I have to tell you she got some of the worst eye checks from those breedings... she always got colobomas and even some detached retinans in there.

    Being VERY new to collies at the time (at that point, I had collies maybe 2-3 yrs, and they were very pet quality, though I didn't know it) that really scared me. Obviously her dogs may have been normal eyed (carriers) and were carriers for much worse eye checks.. and produced it!
     
  13. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Yeah... Sloan finds grooming of any sort to be offensive, I won't be that mean to have you do it, maybe just some teachings. lol
     
  14. Red Chrome

    Red Chrome New Member

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    I'll show you how for sure! And then video you trying it with Sloan! lol lol It is actually not that hard once you get the hang of the basics.
     
  15. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    *whispers so Keegan doesn't hear* me too, LOL. Before he was born his breeder asked me what color I preferred, and I told her that sable was my least favorite of the four. We were expecting all four colors in his litter, but there ended up being no tris at all. And Keegan was the only smooth so that made my decision for me. :)

    Of course I think Keegan's color is quite lovely, LOL, and the sables are growing on me. But I do hope to have a tri one day.

    I think tris don't really look like collies to a lot of people. I mean, sables are obviously collies because fo lassie, and people recognize blue merles as related to aussies and so it's not difficult to convince them it's a collie. But tris - especially smooth-coated tris - I imagine are confused with other breeds even more than the others.
     
  16. Spiritwind

    Spiritwind New Member

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    You know in the original Lassie, the book, not the TV show, Lassie was actually a tri-color (well black white and tan). If they had used a tri for the movie and TV shows, you know Tris would have been what people think of as Collies today.
     

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