Well-trained

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by KenyiGirl, Oct 15, 2009.

  1. KenyiGirl

    KenyiGirl Navy Sister

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    What is your definition of a well-trained dog? I was looking on craigslist (not a good idea, I know!) but a few posts had dogs that were supposedly "well-trained". What would that mean to you?
    Also, how long would it take get a dog to that "well-trained" point? Of course, every dog is different, but how long would you expect it to take?
     
  2. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    I think a well trained dog is one that reliably does the following for general training.

    Recall
    Sit
    Down
    Doesn't jump up unless invited.
    Walks on a loose leash
    Doesn't take off when off leash, checks in with owner.
    House trained
    Crate Trained

    How long it takes has too many variables, raising a puppy with an experienced person it should happen with a few months.
    Rescue/rehomed adult dog could take so much longer.
    And as I already mentioned the experience plus the dedication of the owner also plays in to it.
     
  3. Southpaw

    Southpaw orange iguanas.

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    Well-trained to ME means that the dog knows basic commands (sit, down, stay, come--although I wouldn't expect them to be SOLID, just an understanding) and has good house manners, such as being housebroken, not jumping on the couch, not bowling over guests, etc. Basically if I were to get a dog that's been advertised as well-trained, I wouldn't expect to have to do a whole lot of work--the "foundation" should already be there and I may have to just tweak a few things to better fit what I want.

    I don't think you can put a timeframe on how long it should take to get a dog to that point. Puppies may be easier to mold but then you have to remember.... they're puppies and are still unpredictable and looking to test the boundaries no matter how much effort is put into training. I would consider Juno well-trained as far as puppies go, but we've still got some work ahead of us before she can really be considered a well-trained dog. With adults who knows, bad habits are hard to break.
     
  4. AllieMackie

    AllieMackie Wookie Collie

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    What Southpaw said is essentially what I would expect - pretty good house manners, house trained, knows basics of sit, down, come, perhaps not past basics.

    Crate training, leash and off-leash manners.. I would not expect any of that in a craigslist ad unless specifically stated, and even then, offleash and onleash work often need re-training with new owner.
     
  5. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    At a minimum, a "well-trained" dog ought to be able to pass a CGC. MINIMUM. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to have been tested for the CGC, just that if they were to be tested, they'd pass. I'd like to see something closer to a heel than the CGC requires (though it doesn't need to be competition-level heeling by any means). Also a longer stay, and there were some other things I was going to add but they just slipped my mind :rolleyes: Maybe i'll remember in the morning.

    I consider my dog to be "well-trained." He has passed his CGC after I had him for 8 1/2 months. To be fair, he was probably ready before that, but I thought the test included much more than it actually did, and so I worked longer at it (I had parts of the ADI PAT and the CGC mixed up lol). When I realized that the CGC really didn't cover that much stuff, I had him tested within a month (they're generally held every 3 or 4 months here). He passed his first time. My dog knows the following commands (and I know I'm probably forgetting some):
    sit*
    stay*
    down*
    drop* (emergency down)
    side/heel
    allons-y* (my word for loose-leash walking, as opposed to heel)
    wait*
    hup (jump over a jump)
    starting on directionals (he's pretty solid if I point in a direction)
    automatic sit
    come*
    front
    finish (comes to my left, turns, and sits)
    lights off
    go home (leads me home...not as solid as it was before we moved)
    go on (go ahead of me)
    starting weaves
    starting to retrieve
    fix it (untangle himself if he gets a foot over the leash)
    wave
    shake/paw
    roll over (not solid yet, we work on this in between training other stuff)
    leave it*
    look* (or eye contact/pay attention, with or without a command)
    kennel
    off*
    forward (go forward and apply pressure to a harness...at one point I was working on some guide work with him for shits and giggles and also just for experience; he's far from trained in guide work, but he does know forward and to pull when in harness..I may use that base for driving later)

    He also has manners, and will allow me (or other people) to brush him, brush his teeth, scrape/scale his teeth, bathe him, clean his ears, clip/file his nails, examine him, etc. He does not nuisance bark, he doesn't chew things, he doesn't jump on people (he will occasionally paw at me/jump on me if we're doing something wild while clicker training, such as working on agility stuff). He doesn't beg or steal food.

    I would not expect a dog advertised as "well trained" to be able to do the entire list I made (I put a * by the ones I think are needed at a minimum), and I would not personally require all those before I call a dog well-trained. I would, however, require all the manners I listed (with the exception of scaling teeth), as those are things that are really necessary to make your dog pleasant to work with. If a dog knows commands but has squat for manners, I wouldn't call it well trained.

    I also believe that no dog is ever fully trained; even the most well-trained service dogs (and I've heard of some that know hundreds of commands) can always learn something new. It keeps them mentally stimulated to continuously learn new commands.


    As a side note, "fix it" is above all my favorite "trick." It's wonderful to not have to untangle your dog all the time :) I highly recommend teaching it to your dog.


    Anyway, I do think well-trained ought to mean trained beyond the basics, or at least that the basics are solid and the dog has manners.

    ETA: Of course housebroken too! And though I'd like to see a dog that's crate-trained, not all people crate their dogs, and I respect that choice. I don't agree with it, but I respect it.
     
  6. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    When I hear people say there dog is well trained I suspect they are well behaved (no jumping, excessive pulling, barking, aggression, mouthing, counter surfing, trash eating etc.) and probably know "sit" and "come" in slightly distracting environments.

    Do I consider it "well trained", I don't know, I would never be content with my dog learning only those things but manners is very important.

    FYI Phoebe is well trained but would probably not pass her CGC, she has fear reactions such as moving away from someone petting her and becomes fearful of objects that mad a loud bang (that is improving however). She is very well trained however. Her fearful reactions would cause her to fail her CGC.
     
  7. Tankstar

    Tankstar ~Lisa~

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    To me basiclly what ever one else has said.

    I think Blaze is well trained. people with dogs that I know who are not well trained think he is some super powered dog who is amazing. But really its just basic manners and obiedience he knows. My neighboors always say they wish their dog was reliable like Blaze, and I say its possible to do, you just need to train them. none of them get it. No wonder why Im always catching their dogs when they get loose lol.

    Im not sure if he would pass his CGC, I think he might. I was going to try out for it in the summer, but with my grandfathers illness then death, I wasnt up to it.

    Blaze knows.
    sit
    stay
    come
    back (get behind me)
    down
    wait
    stop
    knows a few tricks. not to many, as I dont care for them lol.

    his only "tricks" are preforming agility lol

    is 100% house broken no matter where he goes (friends houses, pet stores, dog stores, training facilities.)

    he is reliable offleash and listens well. when offleash.

    gets along well with other dogs. tolerates people well. he would rather not be fussed over by strangers, but will put up with it. he would never dream of biting. he just isnt a people dog. Such as "OMG a new person, I MUST GO SEE THEM NOW!11!!11, I loveeeeeee new people"

    I can leave food on a table with out worrying about it bein gone 15mins later. no counter surfing.

    Blazes biggest down fall, and I dont blame it on training, he is a collie after all. is barking. he LOVES to bark. but he will quite when told.

    knows to sit and wait for food. out for doors. walks ect.

    Im probably missing somthing but that to me is well trained.
     
  8. smkie

    smkie pointer/labrador/terrier Staff Member

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    well trained to me would be rock solid on the basics.
     
  9. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    "Well trained" is very subjective. Well trained to me is solid on the basics. Weller trained are those extras. Wellest trained is trained for some specialized task or job with those extra special skills learned. :p Like my grammar?
     
  10. Lolas Dad

    Lolas Dad New Member

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    Well trained to me is the dog can do the following.

    Come when called by name.
    Sit
    Stay or Wait
    Housebroken
    Does not chew on anything other than it's own toys
    Does not have any separation anxiety issues
    Can be trusted with a neighbor if need be
    Is not aggressive around other dogs.
    does not bark continuously and when it is after giving the quiet command obeys it.
    Crate trained
    Does not need to sleep in a human bed with a human
    Does not jump up on people
    Does not jump up on furniture unless invited to
    Is not food aggressive or possessive
    Is not toy possessive
    Is good with children whether or not they live their
    Does not beg for food

    And if he or she is really well trained
    Picks up its own poop and disposes of it properly
    Wakes you up when its time to get up
    Has breakfast made for you
    Has the morning paper on the table
    Drives you to work so you can get some extra sleep while on the way to work
    Cleans the house for you
    Makes dinner for when you get home
    :rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:
     
  11. Izzy's Valkyrie

    Izzy's Valkyrie Very Food Agressive

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    I thought I'd point out that SA is not something you can train out of some dogs without a loooot of work. Just like anxiety attacks require therapy for humans. That said, I don't think I'd fault an owner for having to crate their dog when they leave if they have SA. Laur's Summer has some SA issue and I would definitely call her a WELL trained dog.
     
  12. StillandSilent

    StillandSilent New Member

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    I'm going to respectfully disagree with both of these. I think a well trained dog should not be lunging or snarling at either children or other dogs when they are out in public, but not that they have to enjoy being in the company of either.
    Argon is very well trained, and I trust him just about anywhere, but he does not really care for other dogs. We can walk right by them with no reaction, but he doesn't like them. Nor does he like kids. He will tolerate my sisters children, and quietly retreat, no aggression, but that does not mean he is good with them, or would ever choose to be around them.
     
  13. Lolas Dad

    Lolas Dad New Member

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    SA is something that I worked out of Lola and it did take a lot of work. It's not something easy to deal with and a person would not actually know they have it until they got the dog home sometimes.

    On the other hand I did see an episode of "From underdog to wonderdog" and one of the dogs they were going to rehome did have SA. The crew was able to work through it before placing the dog. Of course not everyone is going to do that before placing a dog and some people give up dogs for just that reason. When I discovered Lola having it I was thinking what did I get myself into when adopting her but I said to myself and my vet I will deal with it.

    I should have known that it was going to happen because she was a velcro dog with the previous owner and she did nothing about that so perhaps I had misspoke when I listed that.
     
  14. Izzy's Valkyrie

    Izzy's Valkyrie Very Food Agressive

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    I can appreciate that but I still don't think SA makes a dog poorly trained.
     
  15. Lolas Dad

    Lolas Dad New Member

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    My guess is that you only have the one dog. Some people have multiple dogs and that is where a dog cannot be DA. As for the children in your life being your sisters children if your dog is staying clear of them then that is fine. It's his way of being good with children. I did not mean that he has to play with them and lick them and such. As long as he is not aggressive around them then there is no problem but some dogs will lunge at children and if the person that has a dog that lunges at children has children over their house then they have to put the dog in a separate room and that is not fair to the dog although the safety of the children should come first. So that might work for a few hours but if they are out of town guests and will be staying a few days then it is not the dog I would want to have around.

    As for me personally I would like to have a dog that gets along with other dogs (Lola does and she does very well) because my sisters have dogs and I like to see their dogs playing with Lola. When I am over their house for a barbecue or some other family event I want to be able to bring my dog with me and I would not want to leave her home all day. Being she gets along with their dogs and plays with them this is not a problem and they actually like when I bring her. Some of the stuff Lola does makes for very entertaining humor and she can be very funny at times.
     
  16. Lolas Dad

    Lolas Dad New Member

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    Let me repeat so perhaps I had misspoke when I listed that

    I do hope that is clear enough as it was stated in the original text with your quote. perhaps you did not see it or misread it.
     
  17. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    Really? I know a lot of people who have multiple dogs and deal with dog aggression and reactivity very well. I agree that that is not a TRAINING issue. Meg would prefer the vast majority of dogs just plain left her alone. She can walk through a crowded agility trial and move through all the dogs without a bit of upset - to me, THAT is training, even moreso than the happy go lucky leaping dogs that love everyone. In fact, coming at it as a person who has a dog who doesn't like other dogs to bother her, I find that very poor training.

    Like others said, it's a very subjective list for each person. Heck, I didn't teach Meg to sit for almost two years, and that shows up on just about everyone's list. Why did I care if she could sit on command? She could drop into a down from a run, hold a down or stand stay, and be called off of a running deer. Where does sit fit into my life? She was actively competing in agility before I ever taught sit.

    For my own list, 'well-trained' would mean a near rock-solid recall, polite on-leash (couldn't care less if it's a heel, but doesn't pull), non-destructive in the house, house-broken, able to leave people/dogs/cats/anything alone when they are told to, a good "leave it", and a decent stay. A dog like that should be welcome in many environments; everything else is icing on the cake.
     
  18. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    FYI my list is not what *I* think makes a dog "well trained" it's what I think of when someone tells me there dog is "well trained". If someone is selling there dog and says he's well trained I don't think he knows a whole bunch of commands I think he knows a couple of the common ones (sit is almost always taught first by average dog owner guy and come is usually something everybody wants there dog to do at some point) and is not aggressive, destructive or otherwise a huge pain.
     
  19. Izzy's Valkyrie

    Izzy's Valkyrie Very Food Agressive

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    Thank you for the clarification. Your list does make plenty of sense for what I would call an ideal dog rather than a well-trained dog.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
  20. Izzy's Valkyrie

    Izzy's Valkyrie Very Food Agressive

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    Sorry, I can't get to the edit screen. Lola's dad, I do now see where you said that at the end of the post and am sorry for being snarky!!

    :hail:
     

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