Well, thats' one way to enforce the leash law . . .

Discussion in 'Dog News and Articles' started by Lilavati, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Yes, I thought that back-up should have been called, although the guy might have gotten away in the meantime. It does need to have consequences...a fine or something. But could that not have been accomplished without tasing him? They send tickets in the mail for traffic violations. I bet it could have been learned where he lived by staking out where his car was or following him.
     
  2. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    Following him to his car might have been a good choice. With his license plate she could have called the regular police to pull him over and avoided confrontation.
     
  3. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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  4. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    IDK, I can think of a few repeat "off leash in a posted on leash area" offenders who I wouldn't mind being tazed....
     
  5. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Turned his back to her. And she attacked him? He wasn't even threatening her! He was going to go away. He was probably going to leave the park. Isn't that the whole point? To not walk an unleashed dog in the park? So, he's going to go home and his off leash dog would no longer be in the park? Isn't that the point....to not have off leash dogs in the park? There are laws in Seattle and many places where it's not allowed to have off leash dogs or even dogs on certain beaches. There are signs but people let their dogs run on the beach where my daughter lives. It's a huge beach and there often aren't too many people around anyhow. But if a cop sees them, (I've seen it) they tell them they need to get off the beach with their dog. There is a fine, but usually I think they get a warning. They don't seem to make that big a deal out of it. And this is Seattle cops I'm talking about....BAD reputation for over-zealousness. So, this park ranger was clearly on a power trip IMO. You can say law is the law. But there's also a thing called the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law. Couldn't she have told him and if he still didn't leave the park or leash up his dog, then find out where he lives and send someone else to talk to him or give him a fine? This potentially dangerous thing...this taser should ONLY be used if the authority or public is in danger and there's nothing else that can be done. This was not a dangerous crime and it's just awful imo. What if he had died? The headlines would then say, Park ranger kills man for walking dog unleashed.
     
  6. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    For me the ONE thing this guy could have done to change my mind on this situation was just give his correct information.

    It wasn't long ago some crazy guy ran to a park and killed a ranger. People are crazy and unpredictable. Giving her the wrong information kept her from being able to see if he had a record, was known to be violent, or had a warrant. He didn't just refuse information he gave incorrect information and then after being told to not leave he tried to leave.

    So I still stand by the fact that this guy was a douche and totally in the wrong. And the comments on these stories belittling the woman and the general attitude of 'I'm better than her she isn't even a real cop' doesn't help my feelings about this guy. If he gave the correct info then I wouldn't have a problem but he gave false info.
     
  7. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    The fact he claimed to have a heart condition settles it.

    He might have been lying; he had already lied and knew she had a taser . . . but any possible excuse for hitting him with that taser vanished the minute he said that he had a heart condition . . . because if true the odds of him dying just skyrocketed, going from a remote possibility to something far more likely. And as the article I posted pointed out . . . excuting someone for having an off leash dog and then disobeying a cop is way out of proportion.

    That said, I fully agree the guy was a jackass.
     
  8. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    He WAS wrong. There's no question about that. He was a jerk. There's no question about that. The thing is, that kind of wrong, that kind of "crime" doesn't warrant the use of a stun gun or any kind of weapon. They're dangerous, especially if one has a heart condition. And people often don't know they have a heart condition. Heart disease is often asymptomatic. Tasers can kill. They disrupt heart rhythms. This crime was non-violent and did not warrant this excessive use of force, whether or not the guy told the ranger he had a heart condition.

    I'm very conservative. I believe in the death penalty for murderers. I think rapists and child molesters should be eliminated from society permanently. I am not one who leans toward leniency in violent criminals or criminals who ruin peoples' lives. I have no mercy for those types. This unleashed dog walker who was a jerk and was dishonest and uncooperative should have some kind of consequence to pay. It by no means though, was a horrible crime against society and he should not have had that kind of punishment or detainment. This was a case of a park ranger who was just too full of herself. She didn't have to do that to keep society safe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  9. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    But like I said earlier the second he gave bad info he gave up the right to have some handle him nonviolently. She couldn't find legit info on it. She didn't know if he had warrant or a history of violence.

    And if he really did have a heart condition he shouldn't have 1. Dared her to tase him and 2. walked away after being told by an office to stay there.

    If this guy was just a jerk and ignored her I'd say no using a taser was out of line. But on a guy who is obviously being a jerk, ignoring an officer *I don't care if she was JUST at park ranger*, hiding his identity, giving false information then yes when he tried to leave after being told to stay I think he took being tased into his own hands. If anything had happened, which it didn't other than some jerk got tased, I feel it is his own fault for ignoring a simple command that my dog understands.
     
  10. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Yeah, I dont think lying warrants the usage of a taser either. I dont see why she couldnt just follow. Sure, he couldve become violent I guess...then guess what, you can taz him.
     
  11. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    See, this is where you and I differ in our opinions. I don't agree that giving false information equals giving up the right to be treated humanely. I think the excessive use of force, painful punishment or detainment is only warranted when someone is threatening violence or is a danger to others. He clearly wasn't. He was walking away....with his back turned when she went after him with the stun gun. The use of this potentially dangerous, electric shocking device, which can cause heart fibrillation is not commensurate to the "crime."
     
  12. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

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    This. If he had been killed by the taser after behaving in this way he deserves a Darwin Award, not sympathy as far as I'm concerned. He completely brought this on himself.
     
  13. Gempress

    Gempress Walks into Mordor

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    I'm siding with the ranger. He was walking away from an officer who was confronting him about breaking a law. That's resisting arrest or detention. It's a big red flag to law enforcement. It doesn't help his case that he gave her a false name. If I were a ranger, and somebody gave me a false name and then tried to walk away from me, my first thought would be that the guy is trying to hide something a lot bigger than a dog leash offense. At that point, I'd definitely tase him if that's what it took to stop him.
     
  14. Lilavati

    Lilavati Arbitrary and Capricious

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    I don't think its a matter of siding. She should have followed him and called for back up (or called the regular cops if she had no back up), but not risked killing him with the taser.

    As those of us who think tasing him have said, the guy was an @ss, and should not have been allowed to get away with being an @ss. Once he blew her off, it wasn't about the dogs any more, really, it was about a certain level of (gulp) respect for the law (I was going to say respect for authority, but that's not it . . its not respect for the ranger, its respect for what she represents, which is the law).

    But considering that tasers are meant to be a substitute for a gun, and he had theoretically just informed her that he was especially vulnerable to one, you have to think, is this worth risking killing him over? Not just the offense, but think about her. How do you think she really would have felt if he'd died? Ok, so he's a jerk, but what if he had kids? Its not worth it to ANYONE to risk killing him. Not her, not the gov't, not even the law.

    And frankly, his behave smells to me far more lke someone who doesn't want to pay a fine and thinks a "fake cop" can't do anything than someone actually up to real trouble.

    I thought this was something of a toss up . . . as in, I understood why she did it, even if I thought it was not the best call and she should be disciplined for exhibiting poor judgment (because there is always a risk that you can kill someone with a taser). But the fact he claimed to have a heart condition (true or not) settles it. At that point you are risking having a corpse on your handles for an off-leash dog and an attitude.

    Its not that I have sympathy for him (I don't), its that as a society we don't kill people for being a jerk with an off leash dog, and if further investigation was warranted (and it was), the solution is to get help, not do a toned down version of shoot-and-then-ask-questions.
     
  15. Bahamutt99

    Bahamutt99 Dafuq?

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    I was riding with my husband once and he was pulled over. Instead of stopping, he backed up to the driveway and got out of the car to unlock the chain on our gate. The cop started yelling at him to get back in his car. I was freaked out, thinking that he was going to get shot or something. Some law enforcement officers are really edgy people, and I've learned to just do whatever the F they say. When I get stopped, I pull my keys out of the ignition and put them on the dash, and have my info out and ready so they don't get upset when I reach in my purse. I wont take any chances that they might think I'm trying to pull something. Its just not worth it. There are so many more worse things that can happen than being tazed.

    Just my thoughts. I think the guy brought it on himself. Was it excessive? Well, yeah. But all he had to do was act right to avoid that. I suspect, too, that he didn't take her seriously because she was a woman.
     
  16. Bahamutt99

    Bahamutt99 Dafuq?

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    My guess is, someone would have gotten shot? Not necessarily shot in the back while walking away, but if it looked like he was going to get physical, yeah.
     
  17. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Really? For an unleashed dog???

    No, they wouldve followed or called for back up....same as they shouldve done in this case.

    Yes, the guy was being a jerk, doesnt mean he deserves to get tased.

    And a bit OT...but relevant.

    One thing that drives me nuts is how often police officers amp situations up instead of diffusing them.
     
  18. Bahamutt99

    Bahamutt99 Dafuq?

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    People get shot for reaching in their purses and having metal objects that "look like they might be weapons." He wasn't tased for walking his dogs. He was tased for not obeying the officer's orders. In some cases, that could move on to resisting arrest, which can and does get people shot.
     
  19. yoko

    yoko New Member

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    I don't think it was about respect either. It wasn't letting him get off for being an ass. He gave false info. She didn't know who he was or if he had a record. Then he ignored a simple instruction of stay. Was he wanted? Was he dangerous? She didn't know because he lied and then acted incredibly suspicious by not even staying to give simple info.

    So yes he was an ass but it wasn't just a 'zomg he disrespected me' thing.
     
  20. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Unless she had a computer right there to run him, she wouldnt have known if he was a dangerous fugitive etc anyways.
     

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