Weaves

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Saeleofu, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    So a few months ago I started some basic agility stuff (actually, it was initially why I found this place lol). Anyway, we kind of did some weaves then, but it was with the poles almost flat on the ground, and he liked to jump over them rather than run down the line.

    Anyway, I ordered a set of actual weave poles so that I could use them inside. Today was the first time I did anything with them. I decided to work a little with Gavroche. I did a little clicker training, though not perfectly. I set up 3 poles. I use food to lure him through twice, saying "weave" as I did so, then C/T at the end. The second time he seemed like he knew what he was doing. So I figured why not, and told him "weave" and watched what happened. He actually did it on his own. Perfectly. WTF? Of course a HUGE jackpot there.



    My dog is starting to scare me...I was considering teaching him to open doors or open the refrigerator, but now I don't think I want to... :rofl1:
     
  2. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    6,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Two dogs, three cats
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Congrats!


    What do you mean by this???:confused:

     
  3. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Environmental Science
    Location:
    Vermont
    I assume she started teaching weaves using "weave-a-matics" or slant weaves. They pivot on the base, so you can initially set them at angles - the dog sees \/ as they look down the center. So they run down the center, and you gradually bring them more upright. One of a million different ways to teach weaves.

    It's great that your dog is catching on so fast! The one thing I would really suggest IF you are intending to compete at some point is not to use the command weave yet. Remember, dogs pair the word with the behavior they are doing when they hear it. So only use the command when they are performing the way you want. You don't want a slow, lured set of weaves, so wait until they are fast and independent before you start using your command. If you are just playing around with it for fun, do as you like :D.
     
  4. Snowy

    Snowy New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Haha, congrats! He is so smart. I think there is less harm to teach him open doors or open the refrigerator. Just don't teach him to answer phone calls. :D
     
  5. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    I agree with BB don't add the cue. And practice entries from all angles before doing lots of poles. (so if your set is a 6 pole set, only put two or three poles on and work entries) I know lots of people who train using a few methods to really cement weaves.

    Personally I would never lure (as it usually results in slow weave performances) but if it worked for you thats great.

    Pics or vids :D lol.
     
  6. MPP

    MPP petperson

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,037
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4, two dogs, two cats
    Location:
    Florida
    And especially don't teach him to MAKE phone calls. Especially to 900 numbers! :yikes: That's one smart puppy you have there. It's just not fair that he be so cute ALSO.
     
  7. k9krazee

    k9krazee Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Isn't it amazing how some dogs seem to just know how to do things? Jack "learned" how to weave relatively, but one of the JRTs I've been half trying to teach for some time and she just does't get it like Jack did. I've been so spoiled with an easy learner I'm afraid I don't have the patience to teach "normal" dogs anymore ;) ps. Jack knows how to open the fridge to get things on command and is a total food hound but has never done it to steal food. Even if there's food in it when he's getting the beer he ignores it.
     
  8. Amanda885

    Amanda885 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    what a smart dog! :D *thumbs up*! hehe
     
  9. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Yes, the weave-o-matics are what I did before, but they weren't actually weave-o-matic poles. They were wooden dowels stuck in the ground ;) But as he's addicted to jumping, jumping over the slanted poles was more appealing than weaving through them lol

    I haven't decided yet if we're actually going to compete or not. If we ever do, it will be a while. I just started rally classes this week (I could train him on my own, but I have no idea how to even enter a show, so I'd rather be walked through the ins and outs of events too). The one reason I'm holing back on competing in agility is because he doesn't have the best hips. I don't want to overdo it. So for now, yeah, we're just messing around. There's no way we could get up any speed in my apartment to do "proper" weaving.

    Hot dog retrieve is next ;)
     
  10. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I taught Smidgen the weaves in one day luring her. She got the idea and thought it was the greatest invention ever! I have to put my poles away when not practicing because she weaves for fun and makes incorrect entries, etc.

    Congrats on picking it up so fast. I've seen a few dogs who either do it slow or never quite get the concept ... Good luck with the hot dog retrieve.
     
  11. Brandyb

    Brandyb New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs and tonnes of fish and some chams
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    hey, good for you and your dog! It's great that you have a quick learned. I taught Brandy using the luring method, and I've got pretty speedy weaves for her size. It just depends on how you fade the lure and how you increase the speed later.
    As Dekka said, practice entries from all angles, even really odd ones, as this will only help your dogs performance in the end.
     
  12. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I think for him the luring works because he really just wants you to cut the crap and just tell him what you want him to do. It took forever to teach him to retrieve, until I just gave up using the retrieve article and put the keys in his mouth, then took them out and put them on the floor and told him to get them. He was like "OH! Well why the hell didn't you say so earlier?" From that point on he thought retrieving was awesome :rofl1:

    I taught him fronts and finishes with luring. He is rock solid on them now. Luring has its place, but it's not for all dogs, or all situations. I'm of the opinion that every training method has its place, but no training method will work well on every dog.
     
  13. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    if it works for you thats great... but there are reasons that pretty much all agility trainers say not to lure. It might seem to be faster but in the long run its usually slower.. as you have to fade the lure, fade you being right there etc etc.

    IME other methods are faster from start to independant weaves at speed from both sides and various entry angles.

    but it all depends on how good you want your weaves. I trained Kaiden by luring (before I knew more about how weaves are often presented in trials) his weaves are ok not super fast (about the same as Brandy's.. decent but not WOW) He also has issues finding the entry if I am not right beside them if its a snarky angle. And even after all this time off side weaves slighly confuse him.

    Then take Dekka, who learnt through shaping. She is fast at weaving and drives through them. She has her issues with the weaves but speed and finding the entry aren't them :)

    I am trying 2x2s with Kat and Sport and wow that is a fast method if it works!!! AND it teaches the dog what the job is (vs following your hand)
    Ok so I am not nearly so good as Susan Garrett lol.. but its pretty fast. 2x2 Weave Pole Training DVD for a video on it if anyone is interested.

    I guess my point is.. if you are having fun thats great. If you want to trial and have great weaves well then luring is one of the slowest methods to teach great weaves, even if it is one of the fastest ways to get mediocre weaves. (it also depends on your venue.. some you don't need really good independant skills)
     
  14. k9krazee

    k9krazee Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Jack learns things much better by luring too. Sometimes we do clicker work, but it seems like it takes him much longer. But I have never lured with weaves, because I've seen too many dogs at trials that are so dependent on the owner telling them when to weave or showing them where to go with their hands. I've never seen a lure taught dog that KNOWS what weaving is. I think that dogs that are forced to use their brain more and actively thinking through the whole thing. I'd like to try to shape my next dog.

    The method that I taught Jack was using a channel. It worked well, he learned them very quickly, they are his favorite obstacle and he's fast.

    I used knee high flexible garden fencing (not sure how to describe it?) with shower rings on the ends so they could slide over the poles. I teach the whole set (I have sections of 3 poles each, so I teach 3, 6, 9 and 12) and vary the length so he doesn't think that all poles come in sets of 6 and stop weaving, instead he knows to weave until the end.

    We worked with the complete channel for a little while and then I took out some of the middle pieces. If he missed a pole, we'd put the fences back on for a while. Eventually all the fences were off except for the entrance. After he could do the whole set reliably, I'd take my set of 3, put the fences on and work on distances and every possible entrance.

    But as long as you're having fun, it really doesn't matter how you teach your dog to do things! ;)
     
  15. Brandyb

    Brandyb New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs and tonnes of fish and some chams
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    LOL - Actually, I should post a video of her weaving, she's fast (I just meant for her size, being she's pretty small, not that she's just got decent weaves - they're way better than decent), and she drives to the end - she's not a slow or cautious weaver and she's got great form. The reason being is how I faded, and encouraged. Once she understood the concept, which did not take long with luring, we added toys thrown as she exited the last pole, the drive is awesome through them. Our only problem, and it's my fault, is entrances, because we never really worked them from all angles or positions (not because we lured). I'd like to practice more but it's not always feasible. That's why I think for the OP it's important to work as many different angles as you can, then gradually add distance and different positions as well.
    Yes, there are quite a few different methods to use when teaching weaves, but not all of them work the same for every dog. We tried 2x2's (which are great for entrances), channels, wires, etc. etc. but with her, the luring worked best to understand the whole concept. That may not be the case for others, but if it works, great, go with it. If you have to use multiple methods and combine them that's fine too. If you like a single method and it works for you, fantastic.

    "But as long as you're having fun, it really doesn't matter how you teach your dog to do things!"

    So true K9!!!
     
  16. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    Oh her weaves are decent (and by that i mean nice speed, moderate drive, reliable etc)... But to me I want the WOW weaves lol.. And the ones you can do from 20 feet away with drive and fast. Dekka has issues at trials slowing down and doing weaves silly dog. Though I found out this weekend when exhausted she weaves just fine.. slow for us, but fine.

    I wish I had vid but I don't.. here are a couple of pics showing how much she drives through weaves lol

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    It does depend a bit on venue you want to play. I need great weaves as I want to be competitive in the AAC at the masters level and regionals.

    But it training she can send to weaves with out me being there and is fast.

    Once again it depends on what you want. If you dont' need to fade the baby sitting, then that cuts down on time. Its just that you end up needing to fade so many things in luring.

    Oh and many people use more than one method to train their dogs to weave. Like I know people who have done 2x2 and weavomatics, guide wires and shaping etc etc. Because some methods teach 'parts' of weaving better than others.
     
  17. Brandyb

    Brandyb New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs and tonnes of fish and some chams
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    Ah! Found a video from a year or so ago. Hopefully I post this properly. I have no idea if it has sound (can't hear it right now on this computer).
    These are drivey weaves, no question, taught originally with luring, added the thrown reward later on. These are WOW enough for me, I don't need crazy border collie weaves, but you see how tight she is in them, and she drives/bounces through, not walks or jogs.
    These are excellent small dog weaves.
    It took no time to fade her lure, Sam's easy to fade to (not in regards to weaves yet, but other things that's he's been taught). It all comes down to timing and fading correctly. If you don't fade correctly at the right time, that's when you see the baby-sat weaves, and the weave dance going on in trials.
    Not saying luring is the best or only way, it's just a way it can be done among others, and done well. :)

    Brandy Weaving! video by juliesillustration - Photobucket
     

Share This Page