Weave poles

Discussion in 'Agility and Dog Sports' started by Emily, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    How did you/do you train them? Pros and cons, things you would do differently? Did you mix methods, or stick with one?

    I'm looking for advice for myself, of course, but I also just thought this would make a nice topic for those that do agility and those that are interested. Please feel free to include videos as well!


    :popcorn:
     
  2. MandyPug

    MandyPug Sport Model Pug

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    2x2s. There was 2 ways my instructors offered to teach it, 2x2s or gates. Izzie's eye issue made me decide to do 2x2s as i knew the gates would freak her out. We didn't do it as religiously as the dvd recommends but she was weaving 12 poles relatively consistently in about 2 months (given that she's a lower drive dog with a visual imparement I was okay with that progress). Her entries are awesome though and her speed is really coming up. I'd say it was a bit more difficult as she's not a super toy motivated dog so I had to use a goodie container, the downside is that it's not rewarding until I can open it for her.

    Here's video of her weaving from a couple months back, yes my poles are the wrong spacing (21") but she doesn't have an issue. She learned on stick in the ground electric fence posts lol.

    http://youtu.be/gVKFSTRLGhM
     
  3. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    I'm taking it slow messing around with 2x2s just for the training experience..not sure I'll ever be at a point to do agility with Romeo though. I like the method a lot..there is no rushing things or cutting corners though. Make sure the dog understands thoroughly before progressing. There's quite a few good youtube tutorials.
     
  4. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    I love the 2x2's, but the dogs that do the best with this method know how to free shape and blow off a failure and be eager to try again. The best results come from the handler having a very good understanding of the method and doesn't take short cuts.

    This is my young dog the 2nd time she had been asked to do 12 poles.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I free-shape the poles upright and in line. I did it with both Meg and Gusto, and am very happy with the results for both of them. More than happy with Gusto, in fact!

    I need to get some video of Gusto now. I only have 6 poles at home, and this video is from something like his 6th session (10 minute or so sessions). His poles at practice where we have 12 - 24" poles make me giddy. He drops his whole body down about four inches and keeps his head low and just drives straight through them. In this video, he's still a little hopeful he's going to get rewarded after each pole so he's bouncing further around them than I like (okay, 6th session, I 'like' this just fine!). Now he gets mad if I interrupt him mid-poles to reward.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    2x2's all the way. I've taught my 2x2 class for almost 2 years now and have successfully gotten every dog that has come my way to do their weaves. I have a huge variety of students from unmotivated frenchies to balls to the wall malinois. I have a lot of experienced agility people who have always used other methods switch over after taking my class as well. My theory is that if I could teach two great danes how to weave with this method, any dog can learn it! :rofl1:
     
  7. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    Kim learned channel weaves + weave-o-matics. Then retrained 2x2 to get better entrances.

    Webster tried to learn channels and it just did not compute. He then relearned with 2x2s. He's the first dog I trained with 2x2s

    Mira learned via 2x2s from the beginning. By that time I was very comfortable with that method and she was the perfect kind of dog for it -- focused, understood shaping, high high toy retrieve drive. And her weaves are great though her rhythm isn't quite as good on mats...we're not on mats very often and I don't think she likes the relatively poor traction...very reliable but she will sometimes switch between single and double striding mid-weave. Her independent entrances are to die for.
     
  8. Sekah

    Sekah The Monster.

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    2x2s as well. Here's a video of where Cohen was at after working on 2x2s for 1 month, taken 1.5 years ago or so. We started working on them in my dining room since it was winter and the ground was nothing but mud - I'd probably do it differently if I had to do it again. But I'm very pleased with her pole performance. Her head is a bit high, but it gets the job done.

    http://youtu.be/E_GM5M6VEr4

    Her entries are great. Lately she's been popping out a bit early when she's too high and I pull too far ahead, so I need to go back and proof them a bit more.

    I can send her to the poles from quite a distance and she'll always drive to them and nail her entry. I love me my 2x2s.
     
  9. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    Weave-a-matics...cause that's what I have in the yard :)

    I do some 2x2 style entry work and some channel w/out guides if I'm at the training club. What I'm doing differently is working on 12 independent poles from the beginning. Independent meaning the dog is learning to drive forward through the poles regardless of where I am or what I am doing. So slanted poles, dog runs through while I stand at the entry, while I run on either side. while I stand still in the middle, at the end, etc, etc.

    I've toyed with the idea of 2x2s but really, I think you can get good weaves with whatever method you use providing you develop that independence. I neglected to fully develop that with Whim on 12 poles because I only had 6 poles at the time and it's taken me quite a bit of training to "fix" her poles now.
     
  10. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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  11. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

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    Another vote for free shaping here.

    Bailey's weaves were fast and reliable but her entrances weren't great. I also wasn't the greatest trainer when I taught them the first time around.

    I'm sure I have video somewhere... and this reminds me I need to pick up the portable agility equipment this weekend so I can work Amber while she's here!
     
  12. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    Ok, so for those of you who free shape, would anyone be willing to detail the process a little bit? How many poles do you start with? Any other tips? I think this might be a good method for us as Keeva is an excellent free shaper.
     
  13. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    Here's how we did it with Gusto. I did the same basic technique with Meg, but made things a little easier for her, because she isn't as strong a free-shaper as Gusto and quits very quickly if she isn't right. I refer to it as free-shaping since I don't lure, but treat placement is a big part of it.

    We started with 6 poles, upright and in line, just like you'd do them with an advanced dog. I stood a ways to the right of the second pole. Click the first few times for any interaction with the poles. I'd click and toss the treat behind me, so I was basically lining him up for the correct entry.

    As soon as he realized the game involved the poles, I moved closer, so my left foot was almost touching the second pole. Basically making it so the correct entry is open and the easiest route to my side. Clicking as he made the entry, and being very careful to click *when his head was pointed away from me*, not as he was turning to look at me. Click the moment that his head was down, pointed away, and moving past the second pole. Then I'd move a step forward, and reward from my left hand between poles 2 and 3. So he's making the entry, getting clicked as he wraps around the second pole, getting the treat as he moves his feet back to me between poles 2 and 3. Then I'd throw another treat behind me and repeat.

    Once he was consistently doing that (with Gusto, probably less than 4 minutes from the very start to the point where he had that), after the first treat between poles 2 and 3, I'd step forward again so I was in line with pole 4, and wait for him to move through that next entry. Same thing - click when his head was down and turned away from me, reward between the next two poles. Within that first 10 minute or so session, he was bopping through all six poles, with a reward between each set. I've heard that referred to as "macaronis". I'd go one way, then turn around and go back the other way on the same side, so he got used to both sides. With the poles on your right, you line your feet up with pole 1, again so the correct entry is the route to you.

    By the end of the second session, I could occasionally "forget" the treat between two sets of poles, so he had to weave 2 before getting a reward. The video posted above was, as I said, probably session 6. So he was fairly comfortably and reliably doing 6 poles with a thrown reward at the end. If it is decent weather Thursday, I'm going to try to have someone at practice tape his poles for me. I'm ridiculously proud of them.

    The timing of the click/placement of the reward is the biggest thing with this method. Handlers with bad timing will inadvertently teach the dog to look at them in the poles. Watch where the head is when you click (down and pointed away), and I always throw the last reward so they are driving forward out of the poles.

    I've seen a lot of different methods work with a lot of different dogs. I don't think there is ever one right or wrong answer for how to train the poles. This one has worked great for my two dogs, and a bunch of the dogs I've trained with. I've seen 2x2 work great as well, channels, and one of the most reliable weavers I know was trained with gates. Whatever works best for you and your dog will be good.
     
  14. BoandAbby

    BoandAbby Member

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    With Abby in class we freeshaped the first set of 2x2's. We basically waited for any interaction then clicked and eventually just clicked for them going through and we'd immediately praise. From there we just worked on different angles/entries/drive through them and once they could do "around the clock" entries we added the second set of 2x2's and continued with regular 2x2 training

    This was abby when I was retraining her weaves going along with what the class was doing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PxaowmPP0k

    And this is most recent vid. Kinda mauled my 2x2's so only had a set of 4 poles
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fARE0F932k

    And this vid is one of every method we've tried (aka the progess vid) up until back last nov I believe
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z55O1Xpduu0

    I personally like the 2x2 method and will use it with Twister as well
     
  15. Keechak

    Keechak Aussie Obssessed

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    With Hawkeye's free shaping I started him on 6 poles. I would point to the entrance and tell him "go" and he walked thru them, I threw him a treat. Then i told him "come" and he walked back thru the second pole and he got a treat. This continued for about two days till he started to really catch on.
     
  16. DobeLove

    DobeLove New Member

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    I just started agility a few months ago so I'm not sure what the technique is called, but we started with twelve poles and they were set far enough apart that she could just walk straight through them. We've been moving them closer and closer, and she is almost perfect at them now. I've never seen anyone do them that way before, but it seems to have worked. And it has worked for a lot of the other dogs in the class.
     
  17. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    I believe that's generally referred to as the channel method. :)

    BB, thank you soooo much for that. I figured reward placement would be a big part of it to prevent the dog from looking at the handler and to teach proper head position. That helps a lot, thanks!
     
  18. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    We're allllmost doing 4 poles...just a few more inches (another day or two) and he should have it. :) Have you started with anything?
     
  19. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

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    That's awesome! I haven't started yet because of the heat - I only have room to start outside. Now that the heat has broken, I'm actually hoping to get rolling tomorrow. :)
     

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