walking issues

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by huskyfun, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. huskyfun

    huskyfun New Member

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    I have a siberian and while it is her instinct to pull, i want her to walk abit more nicely while on a leash :rofl1: yes this may be asking for a miracle of a sibe, but i'm sure she can distinguish that her harness is for pulling and her lead is for walking without pulling my arm from its socket!

    I have tried several techniques but she is stubborn, anybody on here that has a sibe that walks nicely?
    Or some tips and advice would be graetefull.
     
  2. Jules

    Jules Magic, motherf@%$*#!

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    What kind of techniques did you try?

    My dog used to be "terrierble" on the leash... and I tried a lot of different things. What helped us at last was stopping when she pulled. I made her come by my side and sit down everytime she would pull and praised her a lot if she walked nicely.

    Yes, it did take us an hour to walk around the block the first month..lol... but she got better with time.
    I also made sure that I started walking her in areas where there wasn't too much going on that was going to distract her. :)
     
  3. convey2web

    convey2web New Member

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    Hi. Well there are several issues at play here. One is, do you have the dominant role in your relationship with the dog? By that I mean, when you in and out of the house does the dog lead? Pulling is sometimes a dominant role. He wants to show you the way. You should be using a correction collar and keep it high on the neck close to the skull. Also when putting it on you should see a "P" shape. When you walk, if the dog starts to pull give him a slight correct. If that does not help, put him in a sit position. Start walking by taking a step with your left foot and saying the command "heel". Again, if the dog start to lead or pass you give a slight correct with a light jerk of the lead. Follow this and do it in a controlled environment at first and then venture out with more distractions.

    ak9training.com
     
  4. Jules

    Jules Magic, motherf@%$*#!

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    In reply to the above post:

    [sarcasm on] Oh yeah.. how could I forget. Your dog pulls... he is challenging your authority. You have to show him who is the boss. If jerking him with a correction collar on doesn't help- don't hesitate to alpha roll him. [sarcasm off]
     
  5. Sch3Dana

    Sch3Dana Workin' Dog

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    OK, let's get over pulling as an attempt at dominating the owner. There simply isn't any good evidence that suggests that there is a correlation between pulling and dominance issues (say, growling or biting at the owner). If you want to read more about how unlikely that is, check the thread from a few days ago.

    Dogs pull bc they want to go faster than you do. Jules' advice is great- show her that pulling makes the action stop, which is totally the opposite of what she is trying to accomplish when she pulls. Unlike Jules, I don't make the dogs come back, I just wait until they let the slack into the leash. As soon as that happens I mark it (click or say "good") and immediately walk forward again. Either method will work, just pick the response you require and be consistent about exactly what she has to do to make the walk start again. The most important part is that you pick an amount of pulling that triggers the dreaded stop. (I let dogs make a slight pressure on the leash so that we can feel one another. I stop when they start leaning into the pressure and making me hold them back.) It will take her a while to make the connection, so be prepared for several days of not going very far.

    I would recommend starting walks on harness to get the energy out. Once she is calmer, switch to the lead on her collar and practice the no pull training. I would also recommend running her lead from her collar, under one front leg and back up to your chest. This will give you some added advantage against the pulling. With the leash in this position every pull pulls her head down which is naturally uncomfortable and it's a new experience which will help to break those old habits and let her know the rules have changed. Using the leash in this position speeds the training considerably in my experience. With my dogs, that is the signal that pulling is no longer allowed. If I don't want to enforce discipline I just put the leash in a normal position and I can rush along without worrying about the dog "getting away with" the pulling. Although, the harness is an even clearer distinction so I would stick with this in your case.

    When practicing the no pulling, make sure you are not focused on going anywhere, as you'll start to let little pulls slide and then your dog will get confused. If you want to walk normally again, just wait until she is doing a great job, tell her how great she is and switch back to the harness. So, now the harness walking is a reward for her good behavior and you can go back to more relaxing walking.

    Good Luck!
     
  6. Tasha13

    Tasha13 New Member

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    Have you tried a pinch collar?!? :yikes: I know some people think "its so horrible and hurts the dog" When in reality if used PROPERLY it just mimics what the mother and or litter mates would do when they would get out of hand......

    Alot of people Also make the mistake of "oh my dog is a larger breed so i need a big one" No not true and long as it fits Snuggly the thinner ones are ideal.....

    It should be positioned on the upper part of the neck sort of like how you would use a "choke" collar.


    *I have a feeling i made some enemies by posting this*:rolleyes:
     
  7. a.baker

    a.baker New Member

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    Maybe others can add more to this by suggesting certain treats. I have noticed that some dogs as soon as they get outside they cannot focus even if they are just in their back yard. I mean NOTHING gets their attention.

    I notice this particulary with (my dogs) hound breeds. You can't take the tracking thats there naturally out of a dog for example. If a squirrel was just there they don't care what you have or are doing they are in their own doggy world. Maybe some hints from hunters on this one will work.

    Can you suggest some super addicting treats that will grab any dogs attention?
     
  8. Sch3Dana

    Sch3Dana Workin' Dog

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    The problem with a pinch collar at this stage is that the dog won't have any idea what she is getting corrected for (mother and litter mates do not enforce leash manners or anything else so foreign to a dog's basic nature so that analogy doesn't work here). She's quite likely to learn it means nothing and just get increasingly insensitive and slowly work back to her old pulling- yes, many dogs learn to pull into a pinch quite well when it's used without a sensible training program. Or, like many huskies, she'll learn to scream to make the pulling stop- try continuing to pull on a dog's leash in front of your neighbors when she's screaming like you are killing her. Screaming works to stop correction and huskies love to learn that one :(

    The real problem with pulling is that it works to get a dog moving forward. When you teach them that it stops the movement, you gain a lot of control without a lot of force and fight. If you later want to add more correction to make it more reliable, even around distractions, then that makes sense. I have no objection to pinch collars. But they should never be used to teach- only to reinforce known behaviors. If you are pulling (or jerking) on a strong tool like a pinch very often, then to me you are not using it properly. This sort of not-so-great training will work well on dog's bred to "take it", like GSDs and labs. It will tend to produce really bad results with breeds not bred for obedience, like huskies and asian breeds.
     
  9. Cheza

    Cheza New Member

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    I've a feeling that dominant post was just :spam:

    I agree with stopping forward movement to stop the pulling, another method I've seen used is to turn the opposite way and walk, this tends to also cause the dog to pay more attention to where you move, because who knows where that crazy person is gonna go next!

    Whichever you try, keep in mind that it will, as was pointed out, take you an hour to go around the block :D
     
  10. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    I'd like to know what you've tried first, I hate to see a prong on a dog when no other really good methods have been used for a consistent period of time.

    Phoebe has a bit of a pull habit, i am trying to get her to a point where she can get her CGC so no pulling, she's 18 pounds so her owners don't care at all.
    I would stop and walk backwards if she got to the end of the leash right before I went backwards I'd say "slooow". she's have to turn and walk backwards and when she got to my side we'd go forwards again. Now if she's getting close I can say "slow" and she does just that.

    For her I have it on command because the behavior is so infrequent and because her own owners would not do this, they will let her pull so I need it to be an asked for behavior. For you I'd just walk backwards every time, no command necessary unless you'd like it as a warning sort of thing, if you are having trouble physically moving backwards because of your dog's strength then try a no pull harness so she has no leverage and cannot physically pull you. Still do the training though even if she cannot pull with the harness.

    The first few times she may try harder to pull as you back up or even go on her hind legs to keep from turning and going the other way, eventually it will be easier though when she realizes that it won't work. Then she'll stop pulling so she does not have to go in the way she does not want to.
     
  11. huskyfun

    huskyfun New Member

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    hi thanks for the replys, the thing is since she is a siberian its her nature to pull! :) she knows when the harness is on that she should pull. so using one for a walk will do no good.
    Some methods i have tried are turning around and going in opposite direction,
    pulling her to the side. making her sit, untill she is relaxed.
    Its all been hopeless lol very stubborn.
    I make sure she is chilled and relaxed before going on her walk as well and she will sit calmly and let me put her lead on, but the moment we are outside pulls like crazy, though i will add that she is normally quite good coming home so weather its just the exciment of going for a walk i don't know.

    I have considered a halti or the illusion collar?
     
  12. Maxy24

    Maxy24 Active Member

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    Sorry, I forgot you went sledding with her. You could try a head halter but it should be coupled with some sort of training and the dog must learn to accept the collar, for some dogs it is not a good choice. I have not heard of anyone who uses the illusion collar, I would not buy it simply because it supports Cesar Millan.

    I would try some of the suggested methods then pick one and STICK to it for a good while. ANY improvement should be celebrated.

    Go out and see what she does if you simply stop and ignore her, don't tell her to do anything or tug on the leash. See what she does. Then come tell us how she reacted (for some dogs the stop method is useless, for others it is a big help, it depends on how the dog reacts and if he is an experimental dog).
     
  13. Sch3Dana

    Sch3Dana Workin' Dog

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    Another question I have: Why take her on a walk since she clearly wants to run? I'm not saying she shouldn't learn leash manners, but so many people fight the dog on this issue simply bc the dog is never getting the amount of exercise they really need and simply doesn't enjoy a leisurely stroll. Personally, I almost never walk my dogs. Sometimes when they are on rehab after an injury, or for my own protection if I want to walk at night in the city. Otherwise they are off leash to run (with good recalls, of course), or biking on a springer where they can pull and run. Going slow just isn't much fun or much use for exercising big, athletic dogs, so why do it?
     
  14. Jules

    Jules Magic, motherf@%$*#!

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    Uhh... I just wanted to add (I think I worded it weird) that I had her on a short leash when we were in the "acute" stage of learning how to walk on a leash.. I didn't really make her "come back" as she was more or less walking next to me. If she pulled and the leash was missing slack, I'd make her sit, because she gets really focused on a smell, a view, etc. With making her sit, it broke this focus. I didn't give her a leash correction, but kept the leash without much slack and started to walk again as soon as I did give slack in the leash. I don't know if that makes sense... but it worked for her.

    And to the last post... I'd let the dog get a good amount of exercise first and then start the proper walk training. I think walking nicely on a leash is an extremely important aspect of a well behaved dog... I wouldn't only and always simply walk... but then again, I'm trying to switch up the form of exercise so she won't get bored, i.e. walking, swimming, playing ball, etc.
     
  15. Tazwell

    Tazwell New Member

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    If you're just teaching your dog not to pull, I always choose to recommend training without the aid of correction collars or head halters first. They work wonderfully, but sometimes we become dependent on them-- and our dogs learn to walk nicely, while the collar/halter is on.

    With older dogs that are pretty much, intentionally or unintentionally, trained to pull-- to have tension in the leash at all times-- Our goal is to lose that tension. Your dog is to be rewarded when there is slack in the lead. You don't want to keep the leash tense while you're training, either.

    I've found with dogs like this; that aren't just in a hurry to go somewhere, but are 'trained' to PULL you somewhere, the best method is not to stop-- but to turn around immediately and walk the other direction. During walking, the reward is getting to go forward, where she wants to go. The only time she is rewarded is when the leash is slack.

    When you take a step, and she darts out to the end of the leash and pulls you, you would-- in one swift motion-- give a quick turn-around-tug in the opposite direction while saying "Eh-Eh! Let's go!" and walk. When she goes with you and walks with you gently (Most dogs will, because they're confused as to why you're going back that way...) she gets praised, and maybe a treat.

    The most important thing is to do it EVERY time, on EVERY walk. If she gets away with it a few times, she's going to try it EVERY time.
     
  16. huskyfun

    huskyfun New Member

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    She has a run at least 3 times a week, pulling the front of my bike (depending on the weather) and we also have the walkydog attachement for side of bike as well. Huskies are not allowed of lead as they have a high prey drive, so that is a no no. But she does get plenty of exercise and also go's to see her malamute friend for a run in her garden.

    I have just got a head halti (gentle leader) and will try her on this, see how it goes. :) I do also like her to have a nice stroll in the evenings, allowing her to take her time on her walk but as she is pulling so much to start of with it dosent look comfortable for her or me :(
     
  17. Tasha13

    Tasha13 New Member

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  18. Cessena

    Cessena New Member

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    I have a husky too, we've been working on our leash manners for about a year now. I feel your pain. (Vlad was an adult when I got him, a year ago and so he came with a whole set of issues we are still working on.)

    I'm going to second what was said earlier about the avoiding collar corrections with huskies. Vlad's previous owner likely used some leash correction on him, because any grabbing of my dog's collar that he thinks is going to be a correction results in him hitting the ground and screaming like you are stabbing him to death. It's not something you want to foster unless you like the sound of screaming huskies every time you need to control him via his collar. (Even turning it to put a leash on would result in this behavior at first. And it really sounds like you are hurting a small child or something.)

    (Thanks Sch3Dana for confirming our suspicions by the way! We have been trying to figure out why he did this! I guess his old owners must have helped him learn this, we never use collar corrections with him as a result.)

    I tried the head halter as well. He pulled right out of that one.

    I use the stop and go method to keep him from pulling really hard. But he just never seemed to really get that I wanted him to walk WITH me not IN FRONT OF ME.

    Attaching heel or walking next to me to a command has worked really really well for us so far. (I use "Walk Nice" because, I mean, he's not heeling, but at least he's paying attention to me and walking with me.)

    Maybe that would work for you as well since you are asking for different behaviors on leash at different times. Just a thought.

    I used treats he loved to lure it, and so now he knows if he walks nice until I tell him "okay" he gets a yummy treat. (I've also heard of people dropping them as you walk.) He's even started walking nice voluntarily to solicit treats. So I'm pretty happy with that, he can go about a block and a half before he loses focus, but that's up from about 10 feet a few months ago, so I'm really happy with it.
     
  19. huskyfun

    huskyfun New Member

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    Hi, whats a walk nice?
    I have got a halti today and though she is not keen on it, we have been able to have a plesant walk, she can slip it of but i added a halti link to attach to collar as i don't want a loose husky :)
    Thing is i'm not that keen on them, and it looks like you are walking a dangerous dog that wants to bite, i'm at my wits end what to do :(
    I don't want her to walk to heel she can go in front but just not pulling me like i'm walking against a strong wind!!
     
  20. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    Is it a halti (brand name) or a gentle leader (like you said in an earlier post... also a brand name)? There are small differences between haltis and gentle leaders, and one main difference is that when adjusted correctly, a dog should not be able to slip out of the gentle leader. If this is what you have, you'll need to go to the gentle leader website or watch the dvd that came in the packaging to make sure that you're fitting it correctly.
     

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