Unique Problem - Help Needed BADLY Please!!!

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Wassim, Nov 7, 2005.

  1. Wassim

    Wassim New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hello,

    I've got a unique and troubling problem with my dog and I was hoping you guys could give a novice some advice.

    My fiancee has wanted a dog for the last four years that we have been together - and in July of this year I relented. It's not that I don't like dogs, it's that we already have two cats, live in a small flat and both work. In July my fiancee found herself in between jobs, so we got a female Yorkie-Pom and named her Abi.

    Abi is adorable, but has proven very difficult to train. Perhaps it's us - as the owners our methods were well-intentioned but inconsistent.

    Sabrina (my fiancee) got a new job and started two weeks ago - unfortunately Abi was not even six months old, and hadn't completed her house training.

    At the moment, there's nobody in the house from 9:00am till 5:30pm at best (sometimes we leave earlier and come back later). We did not want to be cruel to Abi, but still don't trust her to stay good in a room by herself (not to mention we have two cats who get very agitated around her). Therefore, we've set up a hallway in the flat, closed it off with a baby gate, and put in it all that she would need - her crate which she finds comforting, a pillow, a couple of toys and her water bowl. Even though we don't want her to use it, just in case we put down a puppy training pad or two.

    What usually greets my eyes when I come home (as I usually come home first) is this: Everything has been moved from its original location. Feces and urine in two or three spots around the hallway. And the training pads, lately, have been ripped to shreds.

    This might be Abi's way of showing that she's not happy with being left alone (but on the rare occasions that I can come home at lunch, the situation's the same). She may just not be trained enough to know not to poo and pee here. As a younger puppy, she DID know to use the training pads, she just chooses not to now (or finds it's more fun to tear them apart). I make sure to clean up whatever she does using a special enzyme that completely removes the scent, to prevent her linking the spot to her pee.

    We don't have the money for a dog walker to come by every day, nor do we know anybody well enough who is close enough, free enough and likes dogs enough to take care of her for us. Therefore we are stuck with what we have.

    We've considered putting Abi in the crate for the entire 9-10 hours that we're out of the house - we're fairly certain that she can hold herself for over 12 hours if she wanted to. Is this an unnecessary and cruel solution? Does anybody have a better idea?

    Until she learns, we can't go a single weekday without having to clean up Abi's messes inside the house.

    PLEASE HELP! We need to have this taken care of ASAP.

    Thanks,
    WASSIM
     
  2. nedim

    nedim New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    6,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NY
    Well, I cant be of much help, but I will say, never leave your dog in a crate for such a long period of time. Its just cruel. Maybe you could puppy-proof a room and let her stay there?
     
  3. GSDMom

    GSDMom GSDMom

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    do you have a heated garage? you could make a kennel run or
    even outside if is not too cold!
    put coarse shavings in and she will do her buisness on shavings
    very easy to clean up with a small rake and shovel

    10-12 hours is way too long to leave a puppy in a crate
    2-3 hours is ok

    just an Idea
     
  4. Wassim

    Wassim New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks, but I do not have a garage or kennel - like I said we live in a small flat.

    I can puppy-proof a room, but this doesn't help the fact that as time goes on we're going to have an adult dog that is not house-trained. I shall set her up in the bathroom from now on as it's less trouble if she makes a mess there.

    Anything I can do to get her house-trained without quitting my job??

    Thanks,
    WASSIM
     
  5. nedim

    nedim New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    6,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NY
    Wassim, there are a LOT of members here that can help you with house-training. You should get a lot of replies soon, a lot of people can help eliminate your situation. Good luck with it.
     
  6. SHADOW_THE_STAFF

    SHADOW_THE_STAFF Staffie Mad

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    SOUTH WALES
    I think you just need to be persistant when your home with her. I think a lot of dogs left alone all day may have accidents. I know If I didnt have a doggie flap, shadow probably would, as I am in work all day like you too.

    There are a lot of posts about house training on the forum. One method is, on you day off, put Abi on her lead, and attach the lead to you, that way you will be together all day. When ever she looks like she may need to go, take her outside (or wherever you want her to go) and praise her lavishly when she does go, and give her a treat. Its perservenace (sp?) Im afraid, I dont think there will be a quick fix for this.

    When you are home does she mess in the house then?
     
  7. Wassim

    Wassim New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    When we're at home we rarely let her out of our sight, as she can easily start something with the cats, chew up something important, or start digging for - and eating - buried treasure in the cats' litter box!!

    That being said, she does occasionally have accidents. I was off sick since Thursday, so she was accident-free from then until Sunday. But today... oh boy. Good thing I came home early to clean it up.

    I will rest easy, honestly, if somebody tells me that even though she makes a mess in the house every now and then, she'll eventually grow out of it. But I've been told that if she makes a habit out of peeing and pooing in the house, she has no reason to stop her habits.

    For the record, when I discover a mess, I don't talk to or pay attention to Abi, I just clean up the mess and pay attention to her later. Alas, dogs lack the long-term cognitive abilities to know that something they did four hours previously can make you mad.

    WASSIM
     
  8. SHADOW_THE_STAFF

    SHADOW_THE_STAFF Staffie Mad

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    SOUTH WALES
    I dont know what else to say. Sorry. I dont know if she will grow out of it. My shadow is 7 months old, and only recently house trained. I just watched her like a hawk. Shes been "almost" housetrained for months now, she started slipping a few weeks back, and i uped my "watching" I managed to catch her before she went inside, and she seemed to eventually "get" it.

    You take her out before you got to work, and as soon as you get in yeah? Do you leave food and water down for her aswell? Maybe you could feed her breakfast to her earlier, then take her out to poop beofre you go to work, that wya she may not need to poop when your out. Not sure about the peeing thou. If she's used to it now, it may be hard to get her to stop.

    Sorry I coulnt be more help.
     
  9. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    22,034
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    2 dogs
    Location:
    western Wa
    Sorry to say it, but that's just simply too long to leave a puppy by itself. (IMO)Dogs are from pack animals and aren't suited to be alone for such a long time, especially a pup. How can it be housebroken? That's too long for a puppy to hold it during the day. She's tearing up things because she's bored and lonely. Because she can't hold it and is going in the house, she is learning that it's normal to go inside. The more times she goes in the house, the more that behavior is reinforced.

    I wish there were a way for you to afford someone to help out half way through the day. Sorry for your predicament.
     
  10. MyDogsLoveMe

    MyDogsLoveMe My pets love me they do

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs 4 bunnies and 2 baby bunnies 5 weeks old
    Location:
    Utah
    From what I have read, you dont leave the pup in the crate all that time, but have sectioned off your hallway with the crate in the hallway for Abi??? Do you have any chew toys for her (as she is still a baby and boy do they chew) I would suggest maybe some durable toys, a frisbee maybe one of those ropes that she can chew on. I know it is hard when you have to work, but maybe try with the chew toys. As for the shredding of the puppy pads, well that is just something new for her to chew on. It will take some time to figure out what is working for her and what isnt, just have some patience. Maybe seeing if a teenager in your area for a few bucks wouldnt mind coming in and taking abi for a walk each day...
     
  11. casablanca1

    casablanca1 Happy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    We got curs and hounds, and a baby rabbit named Cu
    Location:
    Pidjun Haller, with ma uncle Palmer
    From everything I've read, 6 months is too young to expect a puppy to go 8 hours. The theory I've read is that the puppy can be expected to control itself for the same # of hours as it is months old. So you've got a couple of months before that.

    My advice would be to continue to confine her to the hall while you're gone, but put a litter box in there with her. The pads are apparently registering as a toy for her, but she's already familiar with the cat box, so maybe that would help. It's not an ideal situation, obviously, but at least she'd get the idea that there are certain, human-approved places for her to tend to neccessities. As she gets older, and can control herself longer, you can remove the box. The best way to cut down on the destructiveness would be to tire her out thoroughly before you leave with an exhausting walk and play session. I'm not a morning person myself, so my sympathies if that leaves you cold.

    I wouldn't say she'll grow out of it, exactly. It's just that when she's older and has more control, you can train her to wait 8 hours - or until you come home from work - to relieve herself.
     
  12. Wassim

    Wassim New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi all, thanks for your input. From all of this I have gathered that:

    1) I have to be patient - Abi won't be housebroken any time soon, especially as I can't afford an extra £100 a month to have someone walk her (not that I live in a residential neighborhood that a walker would come to).
    2) I will keep her in an area that I don't mind having soiled every day. We previously put her in the bathroom, and let her branch out to the hallway, but I think we're going to go back to just the bathroom, with baby gate so she can at least see out.
    3) While detained, we will continue to give Abi her crate, her toys, her food, and her pee pads (we're already doing all that). A definite no to the cat litter idea, as she tends to take stuff OUT of there, not put stuff IN (eating cat poop is not something I'd like to encourage).
    4) We will pay as much attention to Abi as possible while at home. And try not to allow accidents in our presence.
    5) Hopefully she will "grow" out of her problem... if not, I will be back! Failing that... doggie diapers...

    Cheers,
    WASSIM
     
  13. rocco&quiras mama

    rocco&quiras mama New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs
    Location:
    sweden
    i´ve said it b4 and i´ll say it again.
    You cant buy a dog and leave it all day long.
    i dont belive in leaving a dog alone for more than 4-5 hours aday and then i´m talking about dogs not puppys.. dog who have been trained over a long periode of time ( to be alone ) and if she just went back to work 2 weeks ago she has had plenty of time to get her "dry"
    If you don´t want a dog to pee in the house dont let it.. (i mean dont let it pee on newspapers or what not ) take her out after sleeping, eating , playing or drinking. I personally dont think Abi will ever be housebroken ( sorry )
    I belive it would be in the pups best interest to live in a house where the owner has time for her. Leaving a dog alone for as many hours as you are is gonna get you a sad dog and a destroyed home.

    If you have tried and not found som1 to take care of her during the day ( she needs more then walks, mentalstimulance, company )
    put out an add ( or somn ) and try to find your pup a new home.

    I understand what it´s like to really want a dog, I can only imagen what it must be like for Abi . I´m sure you love her but as "they" say sometimes love just isnt enough.

    PS I really hope your remark about doggy diapers was a "joke"
    How would you feel if somone locked the bathroom door and put you in diapers ?
     
  14. showpug

    showpug New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    5,218
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3 pugs and a bulldog
    Location:
    Oregon
    :)
    Sounds like you have a clear understanding of what to expect. The best advice I can offer is to be very consistent with housetraining when you are around. Pretty soon your puppy will mature and be able to hold it for much longer periods. It's hard to look down the road, but it will improve given you stay consistant and patient!! Good luck to you../
     
  15. rocco&quiras mama

    rocco&quiras mama New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs
    Location:
    sweden
    it´s very hard to be consistant when your out of the house for up to 12 hours per day .. and i suspect they sleep a few hours every night aswell.

    it wont get better with age, it will take work and time ( time they dont seem to have ) the dog has gotten used to using the house as a bathroom, it has nothing to do with age, most puppys ( with owners who help and traine them ) are dry at 6 months ( not that they can hold it for 12 hours then but they have better blatter control)
     
  16. however i think that it is hard to be constitent when out of the house so much but... you can do all you can to help the pup out... also one thing to remember is tearing up potty pads can be a destructive tendency. and to try to do everything when you are home to show her to potty on the pads :D... JMO and i believe in showpugs ideas :D
     
  17. Saje

    Saje Island dweller

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    23,932
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Home Page:
    First of all good for you for getting a puppy when you had time to spend with it and for thinking it through for 4 years! If only everyone would do that.

    Second of all you are expecting a bit too much from your pup. She should only be holding her bladder for 6-7 hours max I believe. She will eliminate in the house while you are gone and it will take longer to train her because you are gone.

    Third, I don't really think you should leave the puppy pads on the floor since you don't want her to use them. You want her to go outside right? It's confusing for her to do both.

    I would recommend papering the whole hallway with newspaper for easier cleanup. You will find a big mess when you get home because they are fun to tear but at least she will have some amusement.

    Possible ideas to prevent boredom/loneliness:
    - leave the radio/tv on
    - leave a warm (not hot) water bottle wrapped in a shirt that smells like you
    - giver her toys that provide a lot of amusement like kongs and puzzle toys.
    - do not make a big deal about coming and going for at least ten minutes before you come/go. If she thinks that it's a big deal she's going to be more upset about it. Ignore her for 10 minutes before you leave.

    I think the idea of the hallway + crate is a good idea. You need her to be safe too not just your stuff. What about putting her in there while you are home on the weekends occassionally so she doesn't just associate it with you leaving? Give her treats so she can get used to it. Just an idea.

    good luck. Ask as many questions as you like. :)
     
  18. Angelique

    Angelique New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One dog
    It would be very helpful if someone could get her out for a nice long walk every morning. Preferably your fiance', since she needs to do some follow through with this pup she just "had to have"!:)

    The more exercise she gets in the morning, the less energy she'll have to "vent" during the day, while she's alone. Another walk in the evening, wouldn't be a bad idea, either. The morning walk should be at least 45 minutes.

    I know how hard it is to have a dog when you are working. But, isolation from social contact can be very hard for a dog, and can lead to a lot of anti-social and behavioral problems down the road. I'm glad you have other critters around, so she's not completely alone.

    Good luck, and get her out for some of those morning walks!
     
  19. Jynx

    Jynx New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    9 + fish
    Location:
    CT
    well I'll offer a couple more suggestions if you don't mind..she sounds like she is going to be a very small dog correct? Why not try litter box training her?

    At this age, there is really no way you can expect her to hold it for 12 hours, and it also sounds like she is bored. My suggestion is,(since you can't afford a dogwalker) get her some great things to chew on,,big butcher bones, ones that will occupy her time, leave a radio on, and/or check around the neighborhood for a school kid that you could "trust" and maybe you could get them at a cheaper rate than a dogwalker? Kids usually LOVE playing with dogs especially puppies!

    I would gate her in an area that has no carpet, and look into litter box training her..I've heard of some that make a square type box with low sides, line it with plastic, cover it with that indoor/outdoor grass type stuff, (you'll have to be able to obviously throw this out),,as well as your typical litter boxes..Since it sounds like she is going to be inside most of the day quite often then you can expect she'll go potty when she has to..

    Good luck
    Jynx
     
  20. showpug

    showpug New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Messages:
    5,218
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3 pugs and a bulldog
    Location:
    Oregon
    You are right, it is impossible to be consistant if you are gone that long. What you need to realize is that at this point there are no other options for this person. They are trying to do the best they can for their dog in the situation they are in. Would it be better for him to give up the dog so there is one more dog without a home? Any dog would be happier with a home where the owners were gone 12 hours a day than having no home at all. There are enough homeless pets on this earth. Try to focus on the positive and help the poster with some ideas. If you don't have any then don't post negative remarks about how it will fail and not work etc. What does that help?
     

Share This Page