Training Sadness

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Linds, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    "Think of praise like candy, a little bit is just fine but a steady diet can be toxic!"

    You know, sometimes I read something that even though it's not detailed, not abusive or attacking it just makes me, I don't know? Uncomfortable? Sad? Disheartened? Whatever the word, this is one of them.

    I saw this on a FB training group, it was immediately agreed with and it just was disappointing. It's regretful that people spend so much time thinking things like this and not as much time just out there having fun and enjoying their dog. It's just such a negative attitude and I can't imagine anyone who is passionate about dogs and training approaching them with this sort of mind frame.

    There really is no point to this post, that quote just made me sad.
     
  2. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    Totally agree! I can't imagine thinking I needed to ration praise and positive feedback for any of the living beings I live with. Use it judiciously? Sure! But ration it? Nope.
     
  3. Red.Apricot

    Red.Apricot Active Member

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    That is hearbreaking.
     
  4. oakash

    oakash Kat/Oak AKA The Nice One

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    My poor dogs are getting poisoned. I'm praising them all the time, especially Jack when he's being good.
     
  5. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    Mine too, though maybe I temper it out with a steady dose of "I"M GOING TO KILL YOU!"

    Seriously though, I just don't understand that mindframe and while I don't think it's abusive or anything of that sort it just makes me sigh, shake my head and go give my dog a hug with lots of baby talk on top
     
  6. MisssAshby

    MisssAshby Richy Rich HM Twit!

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    I can't imagine not giving my dog praise. She does so many things that are praise worthy, and nothing makes her happier than to hear me praise her and she gives me PLENTY of reasons to do so.
     
  7. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    I have to watch how I praise Zander. If I praise him for a down, when I tell him a down, he continues to offer down even when I give a sit command. Same for whisper. I praise a whisper, and he thinks it's all good and jolly to start yelling. I tell him to lay down while we are in the game room, and later I find him opening doors to get in the game room to go lay down rather than just chilling out in the bedroom with me or on the landing.

    But Zander is an exception. He's a dork. And he really doesn't care about pleasing me, just getting my attention. Blah for independent dogs.

    I loved praising the girls, though. Especially Eve. That girl was QUICK. She'd be fabulous in agility, obedience, and who knows what else. She was all about pleasing you, and thrived on as much praise as you could give her. So much enthusiasm for EVERYTHING. Loved it.

    Praise isn't a bad thing. Like someone else said, it just needs to be given judiciously.
     
  8. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    I just started reading Plenty in Life is Free by Kathy Sdao. I am loving it. It really resonates with me, as does your sadness at that quote.

    I had a trainer once criticize me for praising every blessed thing Luce did. She turned out ok. I stand by my method :)
     
  9. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

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    Sad :( Especially since I believe it was referring to a parenting segment on the Today show? Also very sad way to raise children.
    Sure, if you don’t know how to praise a specific behavior, you could end up with an entitled, selfish child... But hello! No way am I not going to share love and joy with my children OR my dogs every time I feel it.

    I can’t imagine thinking “oh that was so cool†then not saying anything because I have some random praise quota going on.
     
  10. MandyPug

    MandyPug Sport Model Pug

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    One thing I wonder when I see the types that don't like praise or treats or even play and are rather harsh on their dogs is why do they have a dog? Or if they play sports with them I question why they do it. I've seen some hardcore obedience people try and cross over to agility and they honestly look like they're having zero fun and they're very hard on their dogs and don't even say "good dog" after a run. That irks me, it's just a game so lighten up and bloody well enjoy your dog and your time with them.
     
  11. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Yea personally it makes me sick to my stomach* when people tell me how much they appreciate the things I do for them and when I do them correctly.


    *Also, fat. Mmmm candy.



    ETA: Here's what Squash thinks of it. With his srs face, even.

    [​IMG]



    (I told him he was a good dog after I took this picture, can you believe it!!?)
     
  12. Toller_08

    Toller_08 Active Member

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    That is really, really sad. There is this group of people who all train under the same people/company that I used to see regularly that either don't believe in praise at all or hand it out very minimally (only when the dog did something they deemed amazing). They tried to give me a couple quick lessons in how I give my dogs too much praise and how to fix that, because obviously it was causing my dogs to have behaviour 'issues'. Issues that aren't even issues to me - just things these particular people wouldn't want to live with in their dog. Because they like their dogs to be robots who don't move or bark or do anything really, except obey them. I found it odd that they said that I use too much praise though because I actually really suck at giving my dogs praise when other people are around, so wasn't giving my dogs as much as I normally do at the time. If they saw me interacting with my dogs all alone they'd think I was nuts with the amount of praise I hand out. It makes them happy, it makes me happy, so why not? I don't get why or how there could ever be such a thing as too much praise, unless you were rewarding the dog (or child) for something inappropriate constantly.
     
  13. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    In all seriousness, I think what makes me saddest about it is that they're not saying "too much is bad training" or "too much undermines your authority" or anything actually related to training success, but that... too much praise is toxic. TOXIC. When I really think about that, it makes me make a really sad face and then hug my dogs and smell them and say GOOD DOGS YOU SMELL SO GOOD.
     
  14. monkeys23

    monkeys23 New Member

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    I want to read that book!

    Hmm I must be nuts, I even praise them for pooping. :rofl1:

    I do the same thing of praising less when working around a group, luckily my clicker lady is an agility trainer so she's like throw your dog a party! I get shy in group class what can I say. :p

    Gosh if I never praised Scout she'd still be cringing and skulking about like she was when I first met her. :(
     
  15. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Nope. I'm nuts too. :D
     
  16. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Me, too. I figure... why not? It's lifelong house training. :p
     
  17. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

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    Because it's toxic.
     
  18. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    My new super villain name: The Toxic Praiser.
     
  19. Red.Apricot

    Red.Apricot Active Member

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    Haha, I like to let Elsie out and watch her, and that way as soon as she's done, I can pop out and be all SURPRISE! GOOD POTTY! HAVE A SNACK! and she's like HOLY CRAP WHERE DID YOU COME FROM EVEN.
     
  20. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    That is sad, and it's sad that people are still learning to train like this. I teach an agility class at our local Kennel Club and there are two great young handlers with nice dogs in my class. Unfortunately, all of the other instructors that they've gone through are mostly old-fashioned obedience based, and teach everyone to be quiet and serious when training. I am the odd instructor out with my loud silly praise, insane tugging Mal, and treats every time my dog goes back in her crate. Last week I got the young handlers playing with toys with their dogs though, so hopefully I can make a change, even a small one.

    It just breaks my heart when people take their dogs' efforts for granted.
     

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