Training Collars on Puppies

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by crazedACD, May 14, 2012.

  1. crazedACD

    crazedACD Active Member

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    I can't sleep so I'm just sitting here browsing chaz and thinking about stuff :p.

    I work in a pet store..more and more often I'm seeing people picking up various training collars...for puppies. Especially the Petco classes are now having every puppy owner purchase and use head collars for classes. What happened to yknow..training the dogs? Going straight to a device just is not my idea of a good thing to push. I know our society is geared towards quick fixes, and maybe starting off with a head collar for the average joe isn't as bad as the dog not getting walked at all eventually. I just don't particularly like the idea.

    I've even seen 3-4month old pups getting prongs and choke collars thrown on them...'for the future'. :( Inappropriate I think..what do you guys think?
     
  2. Kat09Tails

    Kat09Tails *Now with Snark*

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    My place of employment sells ALOT of e collars in addition to a few other dog related items. I feel for you but happily my work also encourages and even lets me decline a sale if I don't feel good about it or I am confident that the product will be used in a way that will harm a dog. Happily so far most of the people who are knuckleheads have been easily dissuaded from using the collars for the wrong reasons like using a remote collar in leau of a in ground fence, or for the few looking for a magic wand when what they need is a better fence and an hour on a bike daily.

    That said - if the owner feels better for whatever reason using a training collar and is using it correctly I have no issue with them picking one out for a few months down the road. Personally - not a fan of the halti but I guess for someone they work. The couple times I've tried fooling with them I was less than impressed.
     
  3. momto8

    momto8 New Member

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    Personally I don't use prongs or choke chains, I am not against them, I just know I don't need them on my dogs. I would see no reason for anyone to ever use any kind of training collar on a puppy :(
     
  4. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    I always tell my puppy classes that they need to work on loose leash walking with a normal buckle collar for at least 2 weeks and if they are still struggling and would like a training collar to let me know and I will fit them with the best training collar for their individual dog. I wish I could have them work on it longer than two weeks, but our puppy k is only 5 weeks long and if they do need a training collar I would like to see how it helps in the following weeks so that we can switch if it's still not working for them.
     
  5. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    I don't think training collars are necessary for pups. I mean, I guess I could see if the person was on the weaker side and this was a LARGE STRONG PUPPY.

    but for most, I think it should be encouraged at least to do training without all the tools.

    I think using walking tools especially on pups makes the tool kind of a crutch. Puppy doesn't learn leave-it or self control really without it. Which creates problems IMO
     
  6. Corey101

    Corey101 New Member

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    I think that using a training collar on a puppy is a little over kill. They are just trying to figure out what you want them to do, and adding a bunch of new distractions such as a prong collar that pinches or a head collar that pulls them isn't going to help. I think you should start with a basic collar and leash and work up from there. If you have a puppy that is over powering you at a young age, maybe you shouldn't have such a a big dog...
     
  7. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    Head collars are a mixed bag for me. Personally, I am trying to avoid any collars as the more I research, the more I dont like ANY neck pressure. Head collars have pros and cons but I can understand starting pups young on them if you are using them instead of a flat buckle collar.

    But no, I am not ok with pups being put on chokes or prongs, I dont like adults on them either.
     
  8. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

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    Done correctly, it is debated, that using a prong on a puppy can train collar directionals better than any other method. That said it's not being used for every day walks and pulling, it's a training session. Most people, the average pet owner or even trainer, doesn't understand the benefits of training collars.

    I don't have a problem with a properly sized prong used on most dogs.

    I also however do not take issue with properly used ecollars (of course, proper can be so subjective).
     
  9. sassafras

    sassafras mushinois

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    Eh, if a crutch or quick fix means the difference between a dog not getting walked or worked with at all and getting walked or worked with, then I don't really care either way as long as someone is using it correctly - i.e. not yanking dogs or puppies around willy-nilly. Some people just aren't motivated to train.
     
  10. Panzerotti

    Panzerotti New Member

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    All of this.
     
  11. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    It bugs the crap out of me when people come in and buy a prong or choke for a puppy THAT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN BROUGHT HOME YET!!

    Crate? Check!
    Leash? Check!
    ID tag? Check!
    Prong? Check!

    :mad:
     
  12. SaraB

    SaraB New Member

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    This. I would rather have my Puppy K students learn from me the proper way to use a training tool than have me deny them the use of the tool and have them experiment with it on their own.
     
  13. stafinois

    stafinois Professional Nerd

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    I will admit, I use a Gentle Leader on Stan.

    One of my biggest reasons is clear mental separation of brainless walking time and training. Sometimes I just want to go for a walk for exercise and fun and not worry about him pulling (which he's not horrible about anyway). Stan also has a tendency to eat random items if given the chance, so the extra control on that banana snout is kind of nice. I will admit that in this way I am using it as a crutch, and I'm cool with that.

    Stan's future is in competition obedience, and I'm training the exercises differently and a bit more broken down than I've done in the past. I'm working very hard on positioning right now with very little actual movement thrown in. As the positioning gets better I throw in a few more steps here and there, but not a lot. It will come as we go. It's slow going and feels a bit like I'm training backwards, but I think that I will have a better competition dog in the end.

    The heel on lead has always been a weak spot for my dogs and me, so I'm obviously doing something wrong that I can't put my finger on. I'm hoping that separating brainless fun walks and work by having leashes attached to different parts of his body will help. I tried a couple of different harnesses as well, and came back to the GL mostly because of his goat-like tendencies.

    This might just be some weird, harebrained experiment of mine that will go poorly. Only time will tell. In the end, I think Stan will be fine for having had worn a GL from such a young age.
     
  14. Assamiea

    Assamiea New Member

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    When I first got Rocky I had a vet who advocated that everyone that brought in a new puppy try to train their dogs with a regular collar first and then if that wasn't going well to try a Gentle Leader (but only after they tried to train their dog, and not as a fast fix-all).

    Personally I don't have a problem with a choke or prong collar IF the owner knows how to use them correctly, but I would try a regular collar first and not jump directly into another training device. I find that a lot of people that I have seen and some I have known go into a pet store looking for a choke or prong because they think it will be a catch-all fix for their dog. They buy it, then put it on their dog in the store and try to yank the crap out of it, but they still don't understand why their dog isn't trained 2 weeks down the road.

    There was a story in my local newspaper a few years ago where a family bought two puppies and were using choke chains as their dogs' normal collar from day one, they even said that the pet store recommended that they buy choke chains for their dogs. The story was about how one of the puppies got it's collar stuck on something and the collar started to choke it. The family's youngest son noticed and took the collar off of the dog. The story was proclaiming the boy as a hero for saving his dog, but not once did it caution people to not leave their dogs unattended with a choke chain on.
     
  15. Bahamutt99

    Bahamutt99 Dafuq?

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    I sell a lot of No-pull devices. People don't like to hear there's training and brainwork involved, so I usually try to sell them the one that is the least likely to fall apart or cause trauma if they fail to watch the enclosed DVD and follow instructions. I steer a lot of those folks to the no-pull harness that hooks up in front of the chest. And then I silently wish for the best for their dog. Counting on an inanimate tool to do your training for you is mind-boggling to me.
     
  16. Bailey08

    Bailey08 New Member

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    I signed Grace up for one of the first available classes that looked decent -- I wasn't looking for the training, but wanted to get the little hellion socialized as much and as early as possible. Anyway, among other really fantastic advice, the "trainer" said that all puppies should be on head halters or no-pull harnesses. Her (adult) Westie, she told us several times, was on a GL. Oh, and they sold both halters and harnesses and she could fit them for us for free!

    I signed us up for the classes I initially wanted (these were really, really bad) and we stopped going, but we went to one last class (our second) and Grace was the only one with a flat collar.

    I want G walking on a loose leash ASAP, bc it was not fun teaching my adult dog and puppies are so much easier (actually, I hate teaching LLW! Guess obed is not in my future. ;)). And, in any event, I don't think head halters (used by the average owner -- I think Sue Garrett uses them on her puppies) or harnesses are all that good for growing puppies. Though I absolutely agree that it's better than no walks. And I understand the impulse for sure!
     
  17. Fran101

    Fran101 Resident fainting goat

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    Just really curious about the whole collar/neck pressure thing. I've been hearing that around quite a bit.. and was wondering if you had any info on it :)

    I'm thinking of just going 100% harness from now on, but that's more of a personal comfort issue (I like how harnesses feel while walking a dog, if that makes any sense lol) but was wondering if there was any research on the whole collars vs. harness thing
     
  18. Bailey08

    Bailey08 New Member

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    Both Grace's breeder and my trainer advise against them for puppies because they restrict the pups' range of motion. Obviously your requirements for a SD would take priority.

    I'm not too worried about trachea issues with a golden (as opposed to a toy breed), but I do have to be careful with G because she has a high pain tolerance and is stubborn as h#ll.

    I didn't do any research on my own since I prefer G on a flat collar anyway.
     
  19. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

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    There was one article in particular I liked, but cant find it right now. I want to say it was in dog naturally.

    But they talked about links to thyroid issues as well as just upping general reactivity and anxiousness. Then, depending on your beliefs of course, just wearing a collar in general is said to block the "chi" or energy flo.
     
  20. SarahHound

    SarahHound New Member

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    My Dad has that same way of thinking. He told me to get the choke chain out for Katy when she was 12 weeks old. :rolleyes:

    She's 9 months now, and if she does anything naughty, he says 'That's because you won't put a chain on her'. Now really, its crap. She can be doing something naughty, nothing to do with her neck, and apparently its all because she needs a choke chain on.
     

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