Toddler mauled to death at Pittsburgh Zoo

[sparks19]

Like I said... I hope there was malicious intent because I can't imagine the pain of knowing it was my fault my child died and then have the whole nation ready to burn me at the stake

Must be my upbringing I guess. I was babysitting kids that we knew when I was only about 10. Not infants or anything but 3 and up... no big deal. Watch them, play with them, feed them... SUPERVISE them and then get them to bed. Wasn't really a big deal. I remember one dad that couldn't believe I got his son to sleep in his own bed because he normally refused to sleep in his bed. come 15/16 I was applying for jobs, not babysitting anymore but because of those baby sitting jobs I had lots of references to put on my resume Our girl is someone we know very well and who is very trustworthy and responsible. I don't worry leaving her with Hannah any more than I would say a 16 year old... I might worry more with a 16 year old lol.

 

[Doberluv]

I saw someone put their little kid up on the railing of the deck on a ferry boat. The father held onto the kid, but I remember feeling VERY nervous about that. If anyone falls into the water without jumping way out from the boat (way out) you'd get sucked into the propellers. I remember thinking how stupid that was to even mess with it. Then the captain told him over the loud speaker to get that child off the railing. Yeah, people can be amazingly stupid.

I also can't imagine watching this unfold. And I really think I would have climbed over the railing, dangled, then dropped and thrown myself over that baby and fought them the best I could without thinking of consequences to myself. I just couldn't bare to stand there and do nothing. I think an adult would be able to fight them off longer before being killed....until the zoo people came. I can't understand them not using more direct force rather than the dart guns if they weren't working. If a whole bunch of people would rush at those dogs, you'd think that would make them run off. Of course, I guess it all happened so fast.

When someone is determined negligent (as opposed to having an accident) they are usually held accountable by society and the laws of the land. Yes, if it was unintentional, which it probably was, she will punish herself every day of her life. But that isn't how it works generally with our laws. That's why they have names like negligent homicide. Like Romy's example....if someone drives drunk and kills someone, he/she can be charged with negligent homicide. It was accident. The person didn't intend to kill someone. But his/her actions were very much preventable. They were blatantly irresponsible and caused the death of someone.

Sparks, I don't think anyone would say you were being irresponsible or having to be sterilized if an accident happened. There's a big difference between an accident and utter, blatant negligence.

I baby sat when I was very young too....around 11. It was primarily for two next door neighbors. One had an infant...very young infant. But it was arranged that if I needed anything, my own mother was very close by. I was also a responsible 11 year old.

As far as taking young children to the zoo, I definitely took our kids to the zoo when they were very young, even while they were still in strollers. They may not remember before about the age of 2, but after 2 and a half or right around there, children start developing a memory. And even if they don't remember the actual events, those experiences enrich their lives anyhow. If a child doesn't have lots of experiences and "socialization" (not that you have to go to a zoo to get that) they don't turn out as well adjusted I don't think as those who do lots of fun things. The emotions, the mental stimulation, what gets stored away in the brain etc etc that comes from a picnic, going to the fair or a zoo, an aquarium or science fair...basically, seeing a variety of things, experiencing a variety of feelings that come from those things... have a lasting effect even if the child doesn't remember them per say. IMO.

 

[BigDogBuford]

I also babysat pretty young but I was a responsible kid and my parents were usually just a phone call away.

As far as not using more force, I can't imagine what they were supposed to do if the dogs were piled on the kid and attacking....I mean, it's not like they can shoot at them with actual guns. Can you imagine if the kid had miraculously survived the fall and attack and then was shot by zoo workers?

 

[Doberluv]

Sometimes having a whole lot of people rushing at wild animals, waving arms, kicking, yelling etc will make them run away. A few bites to an adult would probably be survivable unless it was on an artery. But to a baby....they don't have a chance. It might still have been too late. I'm sure it happened within seconds. But I'm just saying I couldn't see standing there watching and not trying something more than attacking them from a distance.

 

[BigDogBuford]

Sometimes having a whole lot of people rushing at wild animals, waving arms, kicking, yelling etc will make them run away. A few bites to an adult would probably be survivable unless it was on an artery. But to a baby....they don't have a chance. It might still have been too late. I'm sure it happened within seconds. But I'm just saying I couldn't see standing there watching and not trying something more than attacking them from a distance.

I hear ya.

I read that as soon as the child fell the dogs pounced and when zoo workers called them off all but one returned to their enclosure and that one had to be shot. At that time the child was already deceased.

 

[sparks19]

I saw someone put their little kid up on the railing of the deck on a ferry boat. The father held onto the kid, but I remember feeling VERY nervous about that. If anyone falls into the water without jumping way out from the boat (way out) you'd get sucked into the propellers. I remember thinking how stupid that was to even mess with it. Then the captain told him over the loud speaker to get that child off the railing. Yeah, people can be amazingly stupid.

I also can't imagine watching this unfold. And I really think I would have climbed over the railing, dangled, then dropped and thrown myself over that baby and fought them the best I could without thinking of consequences to myself. I just couldn't bare to stand there and do nothing. I think an adult would be able to fight them off longer before being killed....until the zoo people came. I can't understand them not using more direct force rather than the dart guns if they weren't working. If a whole bunch of people would rush at those dogs, you'd think that would make them run off. Of course, I guess it all happened so fast.

When someone is determined negligent (as opposed to having an accident) they are usually held accountable by society and the laws of the land. Yes, if it was unintentional, which it probably was, she will punish herself every day of her life. But that isn't how it works generally with our laws. That's why they have names like negligent homicide. Like Romy's example....if someone drives drunk and kills someone, he/she can be charged with negligent homicide. It was accident. The person didn't intend to kill someone. But his/her actions were very much preventable. They were blatantly irresponsible and caused the death of someone.

Sparks, I don't think anyone would say you were being irresponsible or having to be sterilized if an accident happened. There's a big difference between an accident and utter, blatant negligence.

I baby sat when I was very young too....around 11. It was primarily for two next door neighbors. One had an infant...very young infant. But it was arranged that if I needed anything, my own mother was very close by. I was also a responsible 11 year old.

As far as taking young children to the zoo, I definitely took our kids to the zoo when they were very young, even while they were still in strollers. They may not remember before about the age of 2, but after 2 and a half or right around there, children start developing a memory. And even if they don't remember the actual events, those experiences enrich their lives anyhow. If a child doesn't have lots of experiences and "socialization" (not that you have to go to a zoo to get that) they don't turn out as well adjusted I don't think as those who do lots of fun things. The emotions, the mental stimulation, what gets stored away in the brain etc etc that comes from a picnic, going to the fair or a zoo, an aquarium or science fair...basically, seeing a variety of things, experiencing a variety of feelings that come from those things... have a lasting effect even if the child doesn't remember them per say. IMO.

I know no one said that about me. it was just the idea that neighbor sends child out for trick or treat with 12 year old sibling, kid gets hit by a car... mom is an idiot who should be sterilized. I don't get that line of thinking at all. If 12 year old child pushed said kid out into traffic maybe but for a simple accident?

What I can't imagine is why people stood around watching this scene unfold and NO ONE said anything to her about dangling her kid over the edge. Instead they probably all pulled out their video phones waiting for something to post on youtube

 

[BigDogBuford]

What I can't imagine is why people stood around watching this scene unfold and NO ONE said anything to her about dangling her kid over the edge. Instead they probably all pulled out their video phones waiting for something to post on youtube

I wonder if maybe it just happened really fast? Also, in my experience people typically aren't real receptive when you question their parenting. Personally if I saw something like that happen then I would alert a zoo employee and let them deal with it. Maybe that's what was happening but it unfolded too fast? Sooo sad.

 

[JessLough]

Maybe somebody did say something and like said, she was just unreceptive.

 

[sassafras]

Sometimes having a whole lot of people rushing at wild animals, waving arms, kicking, yelling etc will make them run away. A few bites to an adult would probably be survivable unless it was on an artery. But to a baby....they don't have a chance. It might still have been too late. I'm sure it happened within seconds. But I'm just saying I couldn't see standing there watching and not trying something more than attacking them from a distance.

I'm sure the zoo has very specific protocols addressing situations like this and what employees are supposed to do/allowed to do. Probably OSHA has something to say about that. One of the biggest rules of responding in a crisis is "don't become part of the problem."

I honestly can't fault zookeepers for not rushing into a pack of whipped up wild animals in full predator mode to get mauled or possibly killed themselves, especially if it was apparent that the child was dead. And as I said before, without getting too lurid I'm wondering if there was an element of obviously fatal damage to the child's body that affected how people reacted and resulted in the decision that a rescue attempt was futile.

 

[sassafras]

Maybe somebody did say something and like said, she was just unreceptive.

Yea IME most often that gets you the stink eye and a "STFU".

 

[Doberluv]

Yeah, I think dressing a child all in black in the dark of night is not being very imaginative. They talk about that danger all the time....to put reflectors on those kinds of costumes. But I don't compare that with putting a child on a railing high above a wild animal enclosure with warning signs all over the place to stay back. On a road where a lot of cars go or go pretty fast, I wouldn't feel comfortable having a 12 year old be responsible for a very young child. I wouldn't feel at ease even for the 12 year old....not on a busy road without side walks. I don't know what kind of road this was. But yeah....Halloween often comes with extra dangers and extra diligence is needed.

 

[Doberluv]

I'm sure the zoo has very specific protocols addressing situations like this and what employees are supposed to do/allowed to do. Probably OSHA has something to say about that. One of the biggest rules of responding in a crisis is "don't become part of the problem."

I honestly can't fault zookeepers for not rushing into a pack of whipped up wild animals in full predator mode to get mauled or possibly killed themselves, especially if it was apparent that the child was dead. And as I said before, without getting too lurid I'm wondering if there was an element of obviously fatal damage to the child's body that affected how people reacted and resulted in the decision that a rescue attempt was futile.

It most probably was.

 

[Greenmagick]

Here is the article I first read....I think I was wrong about her having another child, read the woman with a child in the stroller screaming and my head made it the child that fell mother too.

But some pertinent stuff

Pittsburgh police Major Crimes Lt. Kevin Kraus said the boy's 34-year-old mother placed the child in a standing position on a wooden railing overlooking the enclosure.

"Almost immediately after that he lost his balance, fell down off the railing into the actual pit and he was immediately attacked by 11 dogs," Lt. Kraus said.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-pittsburgh-zoo-exhibit-660606/#ixzz2BSRucsja

May not have been time for anyone to say anything. And doesnt say if she let go or if she just didnt have a good grip or what. Not that any of it really makes a difference as it was a horrible decision to make.

Lt. Kraus said zoo personnel responded within minutes. The first personnel on scene were able to lure seven of the dogs away from the victim and into a secure and separated area. A second set of personnel began "throwing objects and some other techniques that they use" to secure three more dogs.

He said the final dog, which was acting very aggressively toward the victim and zoo personnel, was shot multiple times by two Pittsburgh police officers and died.

 

[Grab]

I read in one article that she turned around to grab a camera from her stroller. But sometimes articles don't have all the facts, etc.

 

[Fran101]

Horrible that an animal had to die for acting like an animal.
and a child had to die because he was put in the hands of an irresponsible mother.

When I first read the article.. I assumed this was a case of turned backs and negligence perhaps. She was counting or dealing with the other kids and the child wandered off, climbed up and fell into the exhibit.
and I thought.. you know what. People make mistakes, there were other kids, she was busy.. it's a horrible accident that the kid snuck off.

... but to hoist your kid up on top of a wooden railing over a pit of wild dogs and let him stand on it?! What do you think those signs are for..show?
I will not make judgement on what she deserves or who she is a person.. but I do think authorities need to look into her parenting skills for the safety of those other kids.

 

[sparks19]

all these details just make me sick to my stomach and break my heart

 

[BigDogBuford]

all these details just make me sick to my stomach and break my heart

This. For EVERYONE involved and had to see that whole thing happen.

 

[Miakoda]

I never made judgements about her personally. I did make statements saying I feel she should face charges for her actions if such charges are relevant and are able to be brought forth.

When my friend's neighbor let his Boxers out of the outdoor pen so he could clean it, I'm sure he never intended for any harm to come to anyone at the mouths of his dogs. But those 3 dogs immediately ran from their yard and grabbed a 4-yr-old, who was playing in his own front yard, and fatally mauled him (while his mother did her best to fight the 3 dogs off). The owners were not even given a slap on the wrist, much less charged with negligent homicide as they should've been IMO.

It doesn't matter how innocent your intentions, if your actions directly result in the death of someone else, you should face the charges.

 

[Dakotah]

Horrible that an animal had to die for acting like an animal.
and a child had to die because he was put in the hands of an irresponsible mother.

When I first read the article.. I assumed this was a case of turned backs and negligence perhaps. She was counting or dealing with the other kids and the child wandered off, climbed up and fell into the exhibit.
and I thought.. you know what. People make mistakes, there were other kids, she was busy.. it's a horrible accident that the kid snuck off.

... but to hoist your kid up on top of a wooden railing over a pit of wild dogs and let him stand on it?! What do you think those signs are for..show?
I will not make judgement on what she deserves or who she is a person.. but I do think authorities need to look into her parenting skills for the safety of those other kids.

I have been trying since this thread started to figure out what to say and you summed it up perfectly.

 

[Fran27]

Horrible that an animal had to die for acting like an animal.
and a child had to die because he was put in the hands of an irresponsible mother.

When I first read the article.. I assumed this was a case of turned backs and negligence perhaps. She was counting or dealing with the other kids and the child wandered off, climbed up and fell into the exhibit.
and I thought.. you know what. People make mistakes, there were other kids, she was busy.. it's a horrible accident that the kid snuck off.

... but to hoist your kid up on top of a wooden railing over a pit of wild dogs and let him stand on it?! What do you think those signs are for..show?
I will not make judgement on what she deserves or who she is a person.. but I do think authorities need to look into her parenting skills for the safety of those other kids.

Why bother posting, I should just wait for Fran's posts and quote them, lol.

But yeah. I just don't understand how it could even occur to any parent to do what that woman did.