Discussion in 'The Fire Hydrant' started by Miakoda, Nov 5, 2012.
This whole thing is just so sad. My heart breaks for that poor little baby.
We don't know exactly what happened, no. But this was a mistake that cost someone their life. People make mistakes all the time, and sometimes other people end up dead. When that happens they generally get charged and held responsible for their deaths. If this had been a babysitter or anyone else, they'd be getting charged with manslaughter or something. But because it's the mom, it's okay??? I feel sad for her, but sheesh. You dangle your kid over a HUGE drop that could have easily killed him just by itself, and it's full of wild carnivorous animals!?! Really?!? And then there's signs all over that place saying NOT to? This is the reason WHY there are child endangerment laws.
Life isn't 100% safe and you can't live in a bubble, so there are tragic accidents. But then there are Stupid Preventable Deaths.
A parent sending their kid out rafting while wearing a life jacket, but gets hypothermia and dies when raft overturns = tragic accident.
A parent sending their kid out rafting with NO life jacket and kid drowns when it overturns = Stupid Preventable Death
A parent buckles their baby in a rear facing car seat but gets in an accident and the baby doesn't make it = tragic accident.
A parent buckles their baby in the front seat with an airbag, or drives under the influence/texts while driving and causes the accident = Stupid Preventable Death.
People should be charged with child endangerment at the very least if it's a Stupid Preventable Death.
I am not saying dont charge, I just dont know if I am ok with jail time.
I feel horrible for that poor boy. And yes I hold his mom responsible. Intentional or not, she made a stupid mistake that cost her son his life. If he wanted to see. Why didn't she pick him up and HOLD HIM? Those signs "do not climb", "stand on railings" or "reach through the bars" at zoos are there for a reason. For the publics safety.
I fear they are going to put the blame on the zoo. And soon because of instances like this the zoos are going to up their security measures so no one gets even remotely close to seeing animals.
Because her negligence resulted in the death of a child?
What about other kinds of negligence? A mom who falls asleep with a cigarette in her mouth and the house burns down, killing the children? It wasn't on purpose... Someone who sends their three year old out unsupervised in the yard with three large dogs. They have a history of getting along, but the child ends up dead. Negligence?
It's about holding people accountable for the decisions they make when those decisions result in someone's death. Especially when their choices are violating a law, well known common sense safety protocol, or posted regulations on private property.
THIS. so much. Especially coming from a family where my little brother died due to drowning at a public pool. It was extremely difficult to read all the idiots spouting off on local forums and news comments about how the parents were at fault, and this and that and the other, without knowing ANYTHING about the situation besides a small report of what happened. My mom lives in pain EVERY day of her life since the loss of her child. None of us will EVER be the same and it's a horrible horrible tragic thing I do not wish upon anyone. I cannot stand when people are so quick to throw out the parent blame. Sorry, it's not always black/white.
Such a tragic story.
I've read that as well. With or without the animals in the equation, such a terrible idea. A fall alone is dangerous and almost inevitable, and then add the fact that it's over a zoo exhibit. *shudder*
Having said that, if that's how it really happened I doubt it was malicious. People do dumb things all the time simply because most of the time they get away with the dumb thing without consequences... until they don't.
I totally blame the parents on this one. Nobody lets a toddler balance above a 14 foot drop, whether there are dangerous animals underneath or not. Poor baby.
Reading the rest of the thread, if she truly was letting him stand there just ... by himself, then, yeah, that was stupid. But I'd just like to get all the facts first without judging.
There are safety devices (rails, fencing) for a reason. No one should be standing/sitting on them and if you do sit or stand (or place your child) on them then you are blatantly disregarding the protocols put in place to keep you, your children and the animals safe. Is it the mothers fault? Yes. Did she mean to do it? Who the heck knows but she's going to have to live with that for the rest of her life and that child died a horrible, horrible death. Many people are going to have to deal with seeing this. Can you imagine just going to the zoo to look at critters and seeing this happen? Plus, they had to kill one of the dogs that they couldn't call off so it was tragic all around.
I wish people would pay more attention to the rules, they are generally there for a reason. My heart goes out to everyone involved.
Without reading the whole thread:
Three years olds can ABSOLUTELY have experiences they will remember for the rest of their lives. I remember a number of things that happened when I was 3.
12 is not old enough to babysit in a lot of states with legal restrictions on babysitters. I think in most states there either is no law, or the law is 13...but most states just leave it up to the parents, saying to use your judgement about how mature and responsible the child is.
Yeah here they have a babysitting course that they can take at 12 years old and be certified.
The girl we have is wonderful. She goes to our church, she helps teach the kids sunday school group and Hannah adores her. She is great with Hannah and Inhave no issue with trusting her to take care of Hannah when we need to be somewhere.
Yoko, when I said "is it pOssible he got out of her grasp" I meant the kid who was hit by the car.
I remember things that happened when I was three, actually that is usually when kids start remembering stuff, maybe not everyday stuff, but things that impacted them or surprised them.. You might not remember all the details, but you can certainly remember the overall picture.
I don't know... I think this was a mistake, I'm not gonna blame the mom, I don't believe she wanted to kill her child. I see millions of parents holding their children while they sit on the barrier/railing, not only at the zoo, but Disney World, theme parks... malls, etc, heck, I even have pictures of me when I was a child seating on the railing... And I'm pretty sure my mom didn't want to kill me.
I read the comments on that website and people are blaming the parents for not going in to save their child, however, some people don't react like that when they are in shock, some people just freeze and are unable to think properly. I know this because that is how I've have reacted to shocking situations in my past... And then after I clear my mind I think of a million things I could've done to prevent whatever the situation was.
Yeah... This was a fatal mistake, but in my opinion, it was JUST a mistake, not an intentional murder. I hope this family finds peace and finds a way to cope with their horrible loss, I'm not a mom, but I'm sure the worst thing that can happen to a mom is to lose her children
There is absolutely no way to know if it was intentional or not...if she actually popped her 3 year old on a ledge over a 14 foot drop and then just let him chill up there I'd be REALLY skeptical if someone's judgement could be THAT bad...but whether he slipped out of her grasp, she took her hand off him for a second, got distracted, whatever...I honestly feel like there's a 50-50 chance it was intentional or not.
That said...I also was REALLY surprised she didn't go after him. My only thought was that maybe onlookers restrained her? Shock is a consideration...but I think the normal natural reaction of any parent who's kid is in a situation where they are endangered is to get between the kid and the danger.
I read several articles and one said that she was holding him out over the railing , dangling him over so that he could see better and she lost her grip on him. I'm with you......I would have launched myself right in there without a second thought. Of course, I wouldn't dangle my child over wild animals either.
So sad I've been to that exhibit... the signs not to climb on the rail are pretty clear... what a horrible tragedy, I can't even imagine I really can't believe no one ran in there kicking & with shovels rather than darting those dogs...
Having another child with her or not, I cannot imagine not going in after my child. Nevermind that I would never prop him up on a railing in the first place. I would not be able to live with myself if something I did caused my child to lose their life. Particularly if I just stood there watching.
ETA, also, this is probably the most horrific statement ever :
That quote makes me ill. Until you've got your fingers on their pulse and have determined that they've stopped breathing and their heart is no longer beating, there's always a chance. Children are especially resilient in regards to oxygen loss to the brain.
And this is why Point Defiance Zoo has a staff of trained marksmen on duty, 24/7.
Well I'm guessing there are probably some details about the nature of the injuries that went into that decision that are being left out... and honestly I'm glad they are.
THis is a tragic story. My heart goes out for the family, and for the zoo staff as well.
WHile I did my time at the KC Zoo, I saw more irresponsible behavior by the public than you would ever believe. Parents holding their children by the feet to reach feathers and quill. Spitting at the alligator, trying to throw coins or stones at the animals. You were out there to keep an eye on them as well. It was awful what some tried to do, and what they said as well.
I was three when President Kennedy was assassinated, and I definitely remember my family around the tv and everyone talking and horrified about it. My Mother says there is no way I could remember it, but I do, clearly in detail, the tv, everyone gasping in horror and where they were in the room, and the black and white image on the screen.
I agree too that 12 is not old enough to babysit, be a helper yes, but not completely in charge of babies and toddlers.