To Dock Or Not To Dock

[Dekka]

http://www.steynmere.com/ARTICLES1.html There are people out there successfully creating naturally short tailed dogs, who breed true to type and do well in the breed ring.

I highly recommend ppl read (or if you are not fascinated by breeding or genetics, wade) through that article, it is very well written and documented.

 

[Sunnierhawk0]

I have seen *1* Rottweiler BORN with no tail, and I must say, he had a beautiful natural bob lol.

My breed is docked honestly now for more tradition and upholding breed standard/history than working purposes anymore, but I aim to uphold the standard and the history . Thats like saying, oh lets not have Christmas anymore because its been SO LONG since they found Jesus in the manger ( not trying to start a fight about Jesus and all that, just a clear example)and what purpose does it have now?

For all of those apposed to it, as long as it is done humanely, by a vet... WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH? Does it affect you if my dog wags her nub instead of a tail? No... it doesnt. And Im pretty sure all those opposed havent seen a whole litter get docked, because if they did, they would know that the crying last only until they get back on the tit of thier momma.

People try to anaylize this discussion so much it just really irks me to no end.

 

[OutlineACDs]

Even if they outlaw it, whats to stop the people who band the tails?

For those that don't know what that is, they wrap a rubber band around each puppy's tail and tighten it until the tail dies and falls off. This is done without vet assistance, so you really couldn't stop anyone from doing it. In some breeds (aussies) there are usually some pups born with natural bobs, so even if they outlawed it, people could band the tails and claim they were natural.

 

[Sunnierhawk0]

Yup I have heard of banning the tails, havent seen it done but have heard alot of Rottweiler people do it. I dont agree with that type of docking at all, but its not a uncommon practice

 

[bubbatd]

Hmm...... glad that docking Retrievers and Labs didn't become a fad for the brush and burrs reason !

 

[Romy]

True bubba, but golden and lab tails are more built more like a whomping stick than a whip,

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Here is what I wrote to another person in a PM about this subject when they were discrete enough to ask me in private.

The docking issue has divided people in my breed, and caused rifts, hatred, vendettas, bad feelings, and etc. People have back stabbed others, lost friendships, and it is a SORE SUBJECT where I"m concerned. It is a hot button issue for most people. This is why I REFUSE to discuss it on a public board, other than this ONE REPLY, which will be the ONLY one from me on the subject.

What follows here is my own personal opinion. And again, I will not debate nor discuss any further my position on this issue. Period.

------------------

For me, a Rottweiler with a tail is simply not a Rottweiler. The docked silhouette is a hallmark of the breed, and for me, essential to breed type. If its no longer docked, it is not my favorite breed any more.

The docking issue/struggle has been a hot button passionate issue in the Rottweiler world for going on 15 years. We watched helplessly as Germany let docking get outlawed there. Then we watched as the right to dock fell in country after country, nearly globally.

The American Rottweiler Club has taken a STRONG STANCE that the Rottweiler is a docked breed. MOST breeder judges will NOT judge a tailed exhibit in the AKC breed ring, since our breed standard clearly states "Tail: Docked short leaving one or two vertebra."

Fighting for the right to dock and to keep the Rottweiler docked in the US has been a huge part of my life for over a decade. I breed dogs to the breed standard which is in effect in the country in which I live. I could not, will not, and shall not EVER own or sell a Rottweiler that is not docked.

I'm not sure I can explain it further. I have another breed selected, I have done my research, and I"m in contact with breeders, because sadly, I think docking will be a thing of the past in the next 15 years globally.

And what is really sad is companion animals, dog shows, selective breeding, and purebred dogs alltogether will likely follow within 50 years.

Getting rid of docking is just one step in the AR agenda. You can agree with or oppose docking all you want. When there are no more dogs it will be a moot point, now won't it? (may I point to California as a prime example for you...Also states of Minnesota, Illinois, Ohio, Washington State, and District of Columbia have legislation proposed RIGHT NOW to outlaw or severely restrict numerous breeds, including Rottweilers.....The ARs march on while we argue among ourselves....divide and conquer, and they are)

This is my opinion on this issue. With all due respect to all of you, I do not intend to discuss it any further, and will not refer to it again on these boards. It is a monumentally upsetting and depressing topic for me.

 

[Sunnierhawk0]

:hail: :hail: :hail:


Red said all that there is to say on the subject.

I too will not discuss it again, because you say the same thing over and over, but yet there is always someone who wants to start up the discussion again.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

If I wanted a dog that looked random.. I'd go to a shelter. I'm not paying 800 or a grand for a dog that looks unlike the breed standard. I really dislike tailed cockers *shrug* sorry if it's offensive. My choice.

People should be out fighting puppy mills, not freaking about docking and cropping done by vets or breeders with a lot of practice.

 

[Dekka]

hmm did any of you read the link I posted? I agree with the look of a docked tail in breeds. My breed it is functional in the working dog. I in on way said docking was good/bad just that I would stay with my breed if it became illegal. And instead of saying oh how horrible it would be for the breed if this happened, I posted a thought provoking link where someone (in europe where docking is becoming banned) with a background in genetics bred for a naturally short tail. Thus focusing on a solution versus focusing on the problem.

 

[joce]

I think for working dogs its not just for show. My husky broke her tail and that was over seven years ago and to this day wont let me touch her tail. My docked dog on the other hand likes his stub and but rubbed so I don't buy that its sooo traumatic.

I could go on on this subject for hours but thats the short part

 

[bubbatd]

So true , Romy !!! They are coffee table sweepers !

 

[noludoru]

Dekka, I didn't read your link but I have read one I think is similiar.. a man crossed a Boxer with a tail-less Corgi, and got tail-less Boxers that excelled in the breed ring. I think we ought to do this with many naturally docked breeds if possible (and I say that b/c of temperament and coat standards.. not sure how hard that is to breed out) to ensure that if we lose the fight against the AR activists (and from what I am seeing, we will) we can still have our breeds that look like the standard.


I was not suggesting we dock Greyhounds. I'm a little annoyed those of you read it that way--after re-reading my post I still cannot understand how that was misconstrued. I was simply saying a Greyhound type tail. Long, thing, whiplike. I wanted a visual aide. Since most of us don't get to see your average Doberman Pinscher tail, simply saying a "Dobie tail" doesn't usually work.

:hail: to Sunnier and Red..

 

[oc_spirit]

Noludoru, My reply wasn;t directed at you, I understood what you were saying, i was replying to Taratippy who seemed to be confused as to why Greys have thin tails and aren't docked

 

[savethebulliedbreeds]

I am truly sorry for starting this topic. The reason I was asking is because of this.

If a reason for docking is purely for esthetics then I am opposed to it being done.

For the dogs that have a reason for them being docked then fine great, do it.

I find it a touch upsetting that people would chose to get a different breed if they couldn't dock their tails anymore.

IMO, I think, that if you are doing it simply because the breed standard says to and for no other reason but that then I think the breed standard should be changed.

I have met Rottweilers for instance, with tails and think they are absolutely perfect. The way god intended them to be.

I also am done with thread, even though I started it.

 

[Cassiepeia]

Some ACDs who are work dogs only are docked for a less chance of injury to their tails.

As far as I'm aware, docking an ACDs tail is not common practice even if it does work. Certainly not in Australia. You'd be given the most horrified looks on earth if you walked around with a docked ACD in a country town down here (and that's before the banning), or people would be asking what kind of accident it had. LOL
What you do in America is probably different though. I'd honestly never in my life heard of anyone docking an ACDs tail until I started talking to Americans.

i was replying to Taratippy who seemed to be confused as to why Greys have thin tails and aren't docked

I don't think it was confusion, I think it was more a comparison of companion dogs with the same type of tail. Both can suffer the same injuries but only one is docked for that reason.
But yes, you're right...greyhounds need that tail for balance.

As against docking as I am (and I'm fine with true working dogs being docked -and cropped...if it's really needed-), I don't think docking does the dog any harm...so honestly as long as it's done humanely, I'm happy to let people make their own choice. As long as they don't expect me to agree with them about it. We're all entitled to our opinions and both sides have valid points.

Cass.

 

[Aussie Red]

Here is what I wrote to another person in a PM about this subject when they were discrete enough to ask me in private.

The docking issue has divided people in my breed, and caused rifts, hatred, vendettas, bad feelings, and etc. People have back stabbed others, lost friendships, and it is a SORE SUBJECT where I"m concerned. It is a hot button issue for most people. This is why I REFUSE to discuss it on a public board, other than this ONE REPLY, which will be the ONLY one from me on the subject.

What follows here is my own personal opinion. And again, I will not debate nor discuss any further my position on this issue. Period.

------------------

For me, a Rottweiler with a tail is simply not a Rottweiler. The docked silhouette is a hallmark of the breed, and for me, essential to breed type. If its no longer docked, it is not my favorite breed any more.

The docking issue/struggle has been a hot button passionate issue in the Rottweiler world for going on 15 years. We watched helplessly as Germany let docking get outlawed there. Then we watched as the right to dock fell in country after country, nearly globally.

The American Rottweiler Club has taken a STRONG STANCE that the Rottweiler is a docked breed. MOST breeder judges will NOT judge a tailed exhibit in the AKC breed ring, since our breed standard clearly states "Tail: Docked short leaving one or two vertebra."

Fighting for the right to dock and to keep the Rottweiler docked in the US has been a huge part of my life for over a decade. I breed dogs to the breed standard which is in effect in the country in which I live. I could not, will not, and shall not EVER own or sell a Rottweiler that is not docked.

I'm not sure I can explain it further. I have another breed selected, I have done my research, and I"m in contact with breeders, because sadly, I think docking will be a thing of the past in the next 15 years globally.

And what is really sad is companion animals, dog shows, selective breeding, and purebred dogs alltogether will likely follow within 50 years.

Getting rid of docking is just one step in the AR agenda. You can agree with or oppose docking all you want. When there are no more dogs it will be a moot point, now won't it? (may I point to California as a prime example for you...Also states of Minnesota, Illinois, Ohio, Washington State, and District of Columbia have legislation proposed RIGHT NOW to outlaw or severely restrict numerous breeds, including Rottweilers.....The ARs march on while we argue among ourselves....divide and conquer, and they are)

This is my opinion on this issue. With all due respect to all of you, I do not intend to discuss it any further, and will not refer to it again on these boards. It is a monumentally upsetting and depressing topic for me.

:hail: :hail: :hail:

well said

 

[OutlineACDs]

As far as I'm aware, docking an ACDs tail is not common practice even if it does work. Certainly not in Australia. You'd be given the most horrified looks on earth if you walked around with a docked ACD in a country town down here (and that's before the banning), or people would be asking what kind of accident it had. LOL
What you do in America is probably different though. I'd honestly never in my life heard of anyone docking an ACDs tail until I started talking to Americans.

Cass.

Responsible breeders in America will NOT dock the tails. This is incorrect. Another possible reason for the confusion is that there is such a breed as the Australian Stumpy Tail Cattle dog. This breed is NATURALLY born with a docked tail. They are very similar to ACD's, but not the same breed.

 

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Oh and I want to thank everyone for discusing this.

 

[Dekka]

Jaclyn
Please don't be sorry you started the thread. I think some people who get upset , explaining things, need to re evaluate (just MO) I do dock. So I am not anti docking. I will tell people why I do it. I will agree to disagree. I will not get huffy, how else are people supposed to learn and talk about it, if those who do it get all defensive?