Those who bought from responsible breeders...
- Thread starter Julee
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This is kind of why I don't wanna go rescue. I have a few friends who are very pro-rescue, will never own a breeder dog, which is fine... but for example, this one friend has 2 rescue dogs. One she got as a pup, the other as a 1 year old. The pup has grown up to be kinda nervy, and he also just started having seizures at 2, plus a few other health issues. The 1 year old ended up being nothing like she was at the shelter and they just don't really 'mesh' well. My step-moms rescue dog has a lot of issues that crept up a few weeks after we brought him home too. I know there's chances of these things happening with a pup from a breeder as well, but I just like the idea of having the support of a good breeder who really knows her dogs and her lines, and can help you along the way.
I don't feel guilty one bit about choosing to go breeder route in the future. I have very specific wants and needs. I also want a puppy, not an adult, and I'd never get a puppy through rescue, too many unknowns as far as temperament issues goes.
I don't feel guilty one bit about choosing to go breeder route in the future. I have very specific wants and needs. I also want a puppy, not an adult, and I'd never get a puppy through rescue, too many unknowns as far as temperament issues goes.
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That's what I did & although I love Josefina, if I could go back in time & stop my past-self from adopting her ... I would (I know that's terrible but it's how I feel). She has temperament problems, behavioral problems due bad breeding & bad start in life (orphan, no mom).
Buddy, I would do again for sure, he's my love bug
Buddy, I would do again for sure, he's my love bug
The thing is that everytime you bring an animal into your home it's a gamble. Even pups from good breeders can have health issues, temperament issues, or just grow up to have a personality that doesn't mesh with yours.
Yes, rescue dogs are more of a gamble that responsible breeders (the definition of which varies greatly, BTW), but there are no guarantees in life.
As to why I care where people get their dogs--I care because in the big picture of dog ownership, it matters. It's not that I think a pet store puppy or the $150 unregistered blue "pittbull" puppy is unworthy of love and a good home, it's that behaviors that get rewarded are likely to get repeated. The more puppies that pet stores and shifty breeders sell, the more likely said breeders are to continue breeding. That, IMHO, hurts dogdom in general.
Yes, rescue dogs are more of a gamble that responsible breeders (the definition of which varies greatly, BTW), but there are no guarantees in life.
As to why I care where people get their dogs--I care because in the big picture of dog ownership, it matters. It's not that I think a pet store puppy or the $150 unregistered blue "pittbull" puppy is unworthy of love and a good home, it's that behaviors that get rewarded are likely to get repeated. The more puppies that pet stores and shifty breeders sell, the more likely said breeders are to continue breeding. That, IMHO, hurts dogdom in general.
Quinn is from a responsible breeder. I wanted to buy because i wanted to raise him from a pup ( rescues are fairly rare in this breed), and because I wanted a puppy I could show.
Alot of my dogs are rescues We still help out with transports, home visits ect here and there for rescues in our state and area.
I felt no guilt, I know he came from a wonderful breeder!
Alot of my dogs are rescues
We still help out with transports, home visits ect here and there for rescues in our state and area. I felt no guilt, I know he came from a wonderful breeder!
This can be such a controversial, emotional topic.
I have had far more dogs from breeders than rescues but have had both. Everyone has their reason for preferring one or the other but IMO that's all it is, someone's personal ideas about the subject which may or may not reflect reality or mesh with someone else's personal ideas. I don't see why anyone should feel guilty about where they choose to get their dog, it's your dog and you should get the dog you really want and that best suits you.
I had a well bred GSD who had temperament issues and didn't live to see his third birthday. One of my other well bred (but unrelated) GSDs lived into old age and was always very healthy and had an excellent temperament but had several siblings with serious health issues and her mother developed a serious health issues when she was middle aged. I have two well bred Belgians who developed more minor but definitely genetic health issues (a mother and daughter). My pound rescue mixed breed had a more minor genetic health issue too. Dogs are living creatures and stuff happens. Sometimes genetics work in your favor and sometimes they don't. Going to a breeder who health tests can definitely weigh the odds in your favor against diseases in that breed that are able to be tested for. Diseases that are not able to be tested for though...breeders do what they can with the knowledge they have at the time of the breeding but those problems are a lot trickier. And certainly in some breeds where there's widespread serious health issues and/or a generally short life expectancy, a random bred dog from a shelter is probably going to be healthier than a well bred purebred of that breed. Otherwise, I have known purebreds (well bred and not) who lived to be very, very old and were extremely healthy. I have known mixed breeds who lived to be very, very old and were extremely healthy. And dogs of both who did not and were not.
Wanting a dog with a certain temperament/character are big reasons to choose a certain breed and a certain breeder for sure. That isn't to say you couldn't find what you were looking for in a rescue but the more specific the needs are, the harder it is especially in the more popular pet bred breeds where there's a big difference between the pet type and more carefully bred types. And of course, in some breeds finding a rescue dog is difficult and that isn't even taking into account temperament or age or suitability for you. There's generally fewer than a dozen Groenendael in rescue each year. And many of those dogs are older and most are best suited as companions.That goes for Tervs too. And you'd be hard pressed to find a Laeken in rescue anywhere. Same with PyrSheps.
The two rescue dogs in this household are just as good as the well bred dogs in terms of structure, drive and suitability for sports. Ziggy was adopted from a shelter and is very intense and crazy and driven. If I were to look for a well bred Cardi, I'd want one like him. His structure isn't perfect but he's 10 and still extremely sound, which I think is the best you can ask for in any dog. Roust is...well Roust. He does have an issue with strangers touching him but then, so does my friend's well bred Mal. He's crazy driven, fearless and almost too willing when it comes to trying any sport I've asked him to try. In every day life , he's a typical doofy, dorky, overly devoted Belgian boy. Mals like him aren't all that uncommon in Mal rescue, in fact most of his litter ended up there. That doesn't mean people should feel guilty for wanting a Mal from a good breeder though, who carefully raises and socializes and imprints and really gets to know their puppies before they go to their new homes. Like I said, for me "because that's what I want for my next dog" is a good enough reason for choosing to go to a breeder over a rescue.
I support both rescuing and breeding, I know people who will never have a dog from a breeder and people who will never have a rescue. I also know plenty of people who have been on one side or another of the "never have a _______" debate who...well now have what they never would have
For me personally, rescues don't tend to be as ideal because I strongly prefer raising puppies and strongly prefer to decide myself when and if dogs of mine are altered. And my involvement in dog has long been on the buying from a breeder/breeding my own side of things since I am also involved in showing and interested in having breeding quality dogs. I feel more good, educated breeders are needed, especially in my lower number breed. In terms of "overpopulation", I think it's an issue in certain pockets of the country and/or with certain breeds. Here, we have too many pit bulls. The pounds/shelters have an abundance of pits and pit mixes all the time and they are not exactly an easy breed to fit into a lot of pet homes. I don't know what the answer is for pit bulls and I don't pretend to. But I also don't see how what dogs I choose to bring into my home would have any effect on homeless pit bulls at my county pound.
I have had far more dogs from breeders than rescues but have had both. Everyone has their reason for preferring one or the other but IMO that's all it is, someone's personal ideas about the subject which may or may not reflect reality or mesh with someone else's personal ideas. I don't see why anyone should feel guilty about where they choose to get their dog, it's your dog and you should get the dog you really want and that best suits you.
I had a well bred GSD who had temperament issues and didn't live to see his third birthday. One of my other well bred (but unrelated) GSDs lived into old age and was always very healthy and had an excellent temperament but had several siblings with serious health issues and her mother developed a serious health issues when she was middle aged. I have two well bred Belgians who developed more minor but definitely genetic health issues (a mother and daughter). My pound rescue mixed breed had a more minor genetic health issue too. Dogs are living creatures and stuff happens. Sometimes genetics work in your favor and sometimes they don't. Going to a breeder who health tests can definitely weigh the odds in your favor against diseases in that breed that are able to be tested for. Diseases that are not able to be tested for though...breeders do what they can with the knowledge they have at the time of the breeding but those problems are a lot trickier. And certainly in some breeds where there's widespread serious health issues and/or a generally short life expectancy, a random bred dog from a shelter is probably going to be healthier than a well bred purebred of that breed. Otherwise, I have known purebreds (well bred and not) who lived to be very, very old and were extremely healthy. I have known mixed breeds who lived to be very, very old and were extremely healthy. And dogs of both who did not and were not.
Wanting a dog with a certain temperament/character are big reasons to choose a certain breed and a certain breeder for sure. That isn't to say you couldn't find what you were looking for in a rescue but the more specific the needs are, the harder it is especially in the more popular pet bred breeds where there's a big difference between the pet type and more carefully bred types. And of course, in some breeds finding a rescue dog is difficult and that isn't even taking into account temperament or age or suitability for you. There's generally fewer than a dozen Groenendael in rescue each year. And many of those dogs are older and most are best suited as companions.That goes for Tervs too. And you'd be hard pressed to find a Laeken in rescue anywhere. Same with PyrSheps.
The two rescue dogs in this household are just as good as the well bred dogs in terms of structure, drive and suitability for sports. Ziggy was adopted from a shelter and is very intense and crazy and driven. If I were to look for a well bred Cardi, I'd want one like him. His structure isn't perfect but he's 10 and still extremely sound, which I think is the best you can ask for in any dog. Roust is...well Roust. He does have an issue with strangers touching him but then, so does my friend's well bred Mal. He's crazy driven, fearless and almost too willing when it comes to trying any sport I've asked him to try. In every day life , he's a typical doofy, dorky, overly devoted Belgian boy. Mals like him aren't all that uncommon in Mal rescue, in fact most of his litter ended up there. That doesn't mean people should feel guilty for wanting a Mal from a good breeder though, who carefully raises and socializes and imprints and really gets to know their puppies before they go to their new homes. Like I said, for me "because that's what I want for my next dog" is a good enough reason for choosing to go to a breeder over a rescue.
I support both rescuing and breeding, I know people who will never have a dog from a breeder and people who will never have a rescue. I also know plenty of people who have been on one side or another of the "never have a _______" debate who...well now have what they never would have
For me personally, rescues don't tend to be as ideal because I strongly prefer raising puppies and strongly prefer to decide myself when and if dogs of mine are altered. And my involvement in dog has long been on the buying from a breeder/breeding my own side of things since I am also involved in showing and interested in having breeding quality dogs. I feel more good, educated breeders are needed, especially in my lower number breed. In terms of "overpopulation", I think it's an issue in certain pockets of the country and/or with certain breeds. Here, we have too many pit bulls. The pounds/shelters have an abundance of pits and pit mixes all the time and they are not exactly an easy breed to fit into a lot of pet homes. I don't know what the answer is for pit bulls and I don't pretend to. But I also don't see how what dogs I choose to bring into my home would have any effect on homeless pit bulls at my county pound.
I just photographed 25 dogs at animal control today.. so I get why many are very pro adoption. However, I'll still be getting my next dog from a reputable breeder.
I feel like I do my part for rescue animals. I foster kittens. I photograph shelter dogs once a week and dedicate hours upon hours editing, uploading and sharing their pictures. Would I adopt a dog? Sure, but my next dog will be my conformation dog so that's obviously not an option with a shelter dog.
I feel like I do my part for rescue animals. I foster kittens. I photograph shelter dogs once a week and dedicate hours upon hours editing, uploading and sharing their pictures. Would I adopt a dog? Sure, but my next dog will be my conformation dog so that's obviously not an option with a shelter dog.
This is exactly where I was at before I got Logan, and that is exactly why I went through a breeder. Could I have found something in rescue that would have worked? Probably, especially considering I had the resources to ship the dog in from anywhere in the country. But it was STILL a risk. I actually did look in rescue, and found a few dogs that MAY have worked...but in the end I just wasn't willing to risk it. The number of dogs in rescue suitable to be service dog candidates are very low, percentage-wise, and those that will make it through training are even lower (and considering what you do, I'm sure you're acutely aware of this). If you have the resources to try again if you don't make it the first time - and that means money and space as well as TIME - time is usually a big issue, especially when it's a successor dog.
Strangely the mal rescue was responding to an inquiry on their FB group reminding the interested party that these dogs are more often than not found in rescue due to not being the most ideal sport dogs. They happen, sure, but more often than not those competitive sporting homes aren't where they are placing dogs.
does it? I don't see there being a shortage of homes for puppies. I think the problem lies in a problem finding good homes that will take responsibility for the life of a dog. There are plenty of homes for puppies, the problem is, they end up in shelters within 2 years.
So if everybody goes and gets shelter pets and nobody is supporting a good breeder, what does that leave producing puppies?
I don't support the shady breeders, but lots of people do and will continue to do so. The real problem is shady owners, the kind that can't take responsibility for their decisions and dump the dogs as soon as they don't suit their lifestyle at the moment.
Where I get my dogs from has no bearing on them.
So if everybody goes and gets shelter pets and nobody is supporting a good breeder, what does that leave producing puppies?
I don't support the shady breeders, but lots of people do and will continue to do so. The real problem is shady owners, the kind that can't take responsibility for their decisions and dump the dogs as soon as they don't suit their lifestyle at the moment.
Where I get my dogs from has no bearing on them.
Where you get your dog absolutely has bearing on them? You don't think a lab with bi-lateral hip dysplasia due to a breeder that didn't give a crap about health is not effected by that in day to day life? A friend had a St. Bernard whose parents both had aggression issues and went home with her at 5 weeks old. Not surprisingly, the dog was put down eventually for aggression issues and had a couple of fairly serious bites under his belt by the time he was killed. Yes, she made stupid decisions in getting the dog in the first place, but you don't think that the breeders choices had any bearing on his life and death?
I NEVER said that people should only get their dogs from shelters. Actually, I stated that we might get a future dog from a reputable breeder depending on our life situation at the time we get said dog.
The idea that people will just buy from BYBs and pet stores anyway so who cares where people get their dogs strikes me as illogical. That's like saying "well, some people will beat their dogs anyway, so why bother teaching positive training technics?" or "there will always be people who will formula feed their babies so so why promote the benefits of nursing?"
Absolutely responsible ownership must be promoted, but you cannot get around the fact that getting a dog from a sketchy breeder means less support for the new owners, less screening of potential homes, and more of a chance for health and temperment issues that will make it less likely that dogs stay in homes. Thus, more dogs in shelters and reacues with issues that make it hard for them to be adopted. These bad breeders have a negative effect on all of dog ownership, giving AR groups amunition to push for forced altering and anti breeder laws.
I NEVER said that people should only get their dogs from shelters. Actually, I stated that we might get a future dog from a reputable breeder depending on our life situation at the time we get said dog.
The idea that people will just buy from BYBs and pet stores anyway so who cares where people get their dogs strikes me as illogical. That's like saying "well, some people will beat their dogs anyway, so why bother teaching positive training technics?" or "there will always be people who will formula feed their babies so so why promote the benefits of nursing?"
Absolutely responsible ownership must be promoted, but you cannot get around the fact that getting a dog from a sketchy breeder means less support for the new owners, less screening of potential homes, and more of a chance for health and temperment issues that will make it less likely that dogs stay in homes. Thus, more dogs in shelters and reacues with issues that make it hard for them to be adopted. These bad breeders have a negative effect on all of dog ownership, giving AR groups amunition to push for forced altering and anti breeder laws.
I'm not following you and think you're going in a direction I wasn't.
I get my dogs from a breeder, none of mine have ever ended up in anybody else's care but mine. I don't buy that going thru rescue is going to be "good" for dogs and going to a breeder is "bad".
I'm sorry some people support shitty breeders, I don't. I hardly think going to a shelter or rescue to support God knows what kind of breeder the dogs came from is going to do more for dogs than me supporting some **** fine breeders of dogs.
I'm sorry bad breeders exist, how does me not getting a dog from a shelter or rescue support them exactly?
I get my dogs from a breeder, none of mine have ever ended up in anybody else's care but mine. I don't buy that going thru rescue is going to be "good" for dogs and going to a breeder is "bad".
I'm sorry some people support shitty breeders, I don't. I hardly think going to a shelter or rescue to support God knows what kind of breeder the dogs came from is going to do more for dogs than me supporting some **** fine breeders of dogs.
I'm sorry bad breeders exist, how does me not getting a dog from a shelter or rescue support them exactly?
I'd like to add an addendum to my response:
I will probably only ever have adult rescues that I've fostered from here on out, because puppies are evil and I'm obviously incapable of housetraining an animal!
For real, I am NOT a puppy person. I've loved Siri since she came home, and I don't for a second regret getting her, but I have many friends instructed to hit me very hard in the face if I ever talk about getting a puppy again. I am not a good puppy raiser.
I will probably only ever have adult rescues that I've fostered from here on out, because puppies are evil and I'm obviously incapable of housetraining an animal!
For real, I am NOT a puppy person. I've loved Siri since she came home, and I don't for a second regret getting her, but I have many friends instructed to hit me very hard in the face if I ever talk about getting a puppy again. I am not a good puppy raiser.
There were quite a few sport homes who inquired about Roust's litter and I wouldn't have placed a dog with any of them. I was seriously pretty surprised that people who are so active in dogs (active members of bite sport clubs with titled dogs) were....such undesirable prospects for placement. Unfortunately the prospect of "cheap working bred Mal puppies" seems to attract the wrong crowd of sport people. So yeah, I foudn myself repeatedly telling people "these dogs aren't suited for what your looking for" hoping they would just go away. It was a relief when ABMC was officially in charge of their placement because I was getting texts day and night about people wanting them just because "Cheap Mals!!!!". One person, a helper at an IPO club even wanted one for breeding and didn't really make any attempts at hiding it. Begged and begged me to let one go before they were in rescue officially and before they were spayed. Also I think there's a real fine line when it comes to saying a dog being placed through a non-profit, large scale rescue group has potential for protection training in terms of liability. That can look an a lot like they're placing dogs they know have "known aggressive tendencies" to people who don't know better (and more importantly to lawyers).
And also mostly, I think ABMC just wants their dogs to be viewed as companions first and foremost with people who want to keep them forever.
And also mostly, I think ABMC just wants their dogs to be viewed as companions first and foremost with people who want to keep them forever.
puppies are evil and I'm obviously incapable of housetraining an animal!
For real, I am NOT a puppy person. I've loved Siri since she came home, and I don't for a second regret getting her, but I have many friends instructed to hit me very hard in the face if I ever talk about getting a puppy again. I am not a good puppy raiser.
For real, I am NOT a puppy person. I've loved Siri since she came home, and I don't for a second regret getting her, but I have many friends instructed to hit me very hard in the face if I ever talk about getting a puppy again. I am not a good puppy raiser.
I'm so glad it's not just me! Lol Daisy's 13 and totally not housetrained... everyone's all "is she incontinent in her old age?!" "No she's pretty much always been this way. .."
I never said that going to a breeder is bad, I have a dog from a breeder and would consider getting a dog from a breeder again. I said that I care where people get their dogs because supporting crappy breeders is bad for dogs as a whole. I never said that getting a dog from a responsible breeder is bad.
I also do not think that going through rescue is supporting bad breeders. The breeders of said dogs are getting no money from the shelters or rescues that are taking in the dogs. If shelters and rescues ceased to exist tomorrow, I don't think you'd see fewer bad breeders, just more dead dogs.
Maybe I should have been more clear--I care where people get their dogs because I'd rather not see bad breeders supported. I support reputable breeders and would buy from one, but do also heavily support rescue.
I'm so glad it's not just me! Lol Daisy's 13 and totally not housetrained... everyone's all "is she incontinent in her old age?!" "No she's pretty much always been this way. .."
She spends a lot of time tethered to me or crated in the large crate because she spends a lot of time refusing to poop when she clearly has to go! It's very frustrating. We've gone for 2 weeks without an accident, but as soon as I loosen up she reverts back to going in the house. It's very frustrating, especially after having Frodo who NEVER has accidents. EVER!
So yeah, future dogs must come pre-housetrained