This is a Forum.

Discussion in 'Buried Bones' started by Renee750il, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. chazhound

    chazhound Alpha Dog Staff Member

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    Now that is truely how to handle most heated post. Debate it. I much rather see it hashed out right there in the thread. :)

    Chazhound
     
  2. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    see...just like this thread. where else can you have the opportunity to have your say like this?? anywhere else you would be told that 'it's policy as stated'. the end. you know...that's what Chaz could have said from the beginning. his forum..his rules. but he doesn't do that, and that is the nature of his forum. gotta respect it.
     
  3. Charliesmommy

    Charliesmommy I run with scissors

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    It is all the constant fighting and bitching, just like this entire thread, that makes me want to stay away lately. Every thread I try to read ends up in a bitchfest.
     
  4. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    I consider it talking. guess it's all how you look at it. :) :) when you think it's a bitchfest, then it's time to just walk away from the computer. and that happens to all of us from time to time. but...it's just 'talking', hashing things out.......freely, openly, and without the restriction you get everywhere else. and that is the point. not all the bad dog people out there or the people intent on insisting we ban people immediately. the point is Chaz has created the ultimate discussion forum. and I think we really should all just stop...and thank him for that. free discussion.....that is the point. for everyone that keeps insisting on repeating their view on the evil in the world, that isn't and never was the point. nobody agrees with bad, horrible behavior toward dogs. if you step back a moment, I think you'll finally get it. and we all admire you for your kindness and love of dogs......just like the rest of us. ((hugs))

    happy weekend!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    I'm not denying that I have been involved in some heated discussions.... nor am I denying that I have gotten emotionally involved in some threads.... however I don't turn around and bash the forum and the people that keep it going for us just because I am p!ssed off. I don't p!ss and moan about how "the forum has changed" "I hate it here" "this forum should be run the way I see fit"

    Honestly if you have such rude things to say about a place that has given us such joy and provided so many new friends for so many people then perhaps you ARE in the wrong place. I just can't see why someone would personally attack Chazhound, Renee or any of the mods because they didn't do something that you thought they should have. Be GLAD they don't ban members at the drop of a hat because MANY MANY MANY of us.... including myself.... would no longer be here.... we would all be banned

    and like it has been stated MANY times.... we the members are also in charge of policing our own forum. You have options... USE them. if you don't use the options at your disposal then you have no one to blame for the breakdown of this forum but yourself. Don't expect everyone to know what you want or what you think.... MAKE it known.... without the whining... the temper tantrums .... or the hissy fits. Use the tools Chazhound has provided for you to handle such situations and perhaps threads like THIS would not be nessecary.

    But like smkie said.... eventually this will all blow over and Chaz will be back to "normal"

    ETA: I have been a member of forums that are very strict and I have been a member of forums who have NO moderation what so ever. Chaz is a nice balance. You should see the forums that have strict or NO moderation.... you think things get crazy here?
     
  6. Debi

    Debi Moderator

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    forgot to say one more thing. lol the most wonderful thing about Chaz??? for all the people that have expressed hurt feelings, bashed, said they were leaving etc...........if you posted tomorrow we'd all welcome you with open arms. cause that's another thing about free discussion...you vent, you rage, you say your piece, you get angry.........and we still just like you. :) so...if you DID say you were leaving and you change your mind........we'd always be so happy you came back. and there would not be any hard feelings. cause it's just a group of friends talking things out. :)
     
  7. sparks19

    sparks19 I'd rather be at Disney

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    Unless it was you, Debi. :p ;)

    Kidding :D
     
  8. Red_ACD_for_me

    Red_ACD_for_me Ruled by a RED boy!

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    I'm not reading through all 9 pages of this thread but I did read and glance through the first 5............Alls I have to add is that I came to Chaz because of its popularity and well educated people. I had been to a couple of other forums that were just dead and would have at most 5 members on at once. I liked how chaz was more busy. I'm a pretty layed back person and stay away from some of these heated threads that tend to get ugly unless a poster really makes my blood boil I may add my two cents but what is the sense when it has already been said and explained 20 times over to the OP. I came to Chaz to make friends and talk about my beloved animals and my strong love for dogs not to fight, argue, and bitch. I can do that in person with many people in real life so what is the use over the internet ;) As far as some of these new members who post BS threads I tend to get a feeling of sincerity from the post before I waist my time, energy, and thoughts on what they post about. You aren't going to get through to everyone who wants to breed (even though they don't have a clue), you can't convince everyone to spay and neuter just because you are a firm believer in it, and you can't change the minds of irresponsibility in general by being rude and nasty to the OP. Remember you get further with sugar than vinegar and if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all :D I remember last year I helped a teenage brother and sister who lived with their mean grandmother down south and had a dog who they had to leave outside. She had posted about her dogs health issues and concerns of symptoms. Alls she got was bashed in her thread about what she wasn't doing for her dog and how she needed to take it to the vet which was said over and over again. Long story short she got very upset with the members on chaz and luckily she kept contact with me through PM and updated me on her dog and the vet care she was getting her. She ended up having heartworm and a urinary tract infection but was treatable. She was very thankful I was here to help her and that I was nice and compassionate to her and not mean (just an example of one of my experiences). Lets not forget that some people really do come to chaz for help and aren't just here to spam and cause trouble. I know that can be tough to figure out through the internet, but more people need to find out all the info before they start being mean and tearing people apart. JMO and quick genralization of things ;)
     
  9. IliamnasQuest

    IliamnasQuest Loves off-leash training!

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    It's interesting reading through this thread. I hadn't been back since I posted originally and I was surprised to see that there was such a debate.

    I agree with Renee on the above - just because people don't agree doesn't mean they're missing the point. The concept of what should be allowed and what shouldn't is very subjective. Yes, I think that people who believe in using drowning as a training aid are wrong, and I believe that puppy mill type breeding is wrong, but I also believe that cropping ears and tails primarily for appearance-sake is inhumane and cruel, too. And yet others who loudly proclaim how wrong it is to allow someone to talk about over-breeding or abusive training techniques DO believe in cropping or docking because they want their dog to have a certain "look". So where, exactly, do we draw the line? Do we ban those who crop/dock just because some of us think it's cruel? Or do we just state our opinion and let others reading make their own conclusions? When it comes to threads that we feel strongly about, if we're logical and make a good argument we can possibly change some people's minds who may be on the border between two concepts. That's the value of a forum that allows a high level of freedom.

    There just isn't a solid line between the good and bad. Some people really don't see that what they're doing is wrong. Maybe they grew up in a "spare the rod, spoil the child" household and punishment has always been a way of life to them. Maybe they grew up seeing dogs as being nothing more than livestock, to be raised and sold as a business. And in all honesty, when you look at Chazhound, the vast majority of threads are NOT about things that get people all worked up. We keep hearing about the same few "bad" threads over and over and over. Yes, there were things in those threads that I felt were abusive (and obviously others did too). Did it help when people got emotional and ranted or posted incoherently because they were upset? No, not really. Did it make a difference when logical and reasonable arguments were presented? Sometimes. And if someone comes to Chaz and reads those posts, they may learn something that they didn't know - and may make a good decision instead of a bad one.

    Education is absolutely the key. If we all think back to what we thought we knew when we first got a dog - some of the things we did back then we wouldn't even DREAM of doing now. I let my dog ride in the back of the pick-up. Everybody did back then. I trained with a choke chain. Everybody did back then. I fed the cheap food. It was what I knew and what those around me knew. And as I grew as a dog owner and learned, I changed my ways. Who are we to say that trying to offer education to others, regardless of where they are in dogs at this point, is ever WRONG?? Maybe we won't change that particular person, but we may change others who read the thread. And that can't be anything but good.

    When it comes right down to it, there's no one here who has a right to say what happens to this forum except for the person who pays the bills. We're not forced to stay here, certainly, and if a person is really upset then stepping away is probably the most healthy thing to do. There's no shame in taking a break.

    Melanie and the gang in Alaska
     
  10. chazhound

    chazhound Alpha Dog Staff Member

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    Excellent post Melanie... Thanks much for sharing.

    Chazhound
     
  11. Psyfalcon

    Psyfalcon Fishies!

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    I pray (a rare thing!) that this is my only foray into this thread. I've been on enough forums to know not to get attached. I've worked up quite a number of posts, but I do not want to be "a regular here." That is developing a connotation that I don't want to be part of.

    There is a very strange social dynamic here, compared to many other forums. People seem to treat the forum as family. Short of illness or death, I do not care if any person comes, goes, or throws a fit about leaving for the 10th time. There is a thread weekly about people not coming back. It gets old, since they almost always come back. It really is a attention ploy when the poster is not getting their way! No single person makes the forum (well, Chaz excepted, I suppose) so I do not care if any person stays or goes.

    If it starts getting to be too much, just take a step back, don't visit, or only open picture threads.

    The response to Richling is actually still bothering me. A narcissist? Perhaps, but what does calling him in this, or any thread serve? Just because you (in general) do not agree with method "X" does not mean that others don't. Clearly at least 3 incarnations of one person does.

    If you want to fight that kind of thinking, you HAVE to understand it. Why does this person think that it is ok to train that way? In some cultures, dogs are just food. In others they are Paris Hilton's dog. Most of us will fall in between these extremes. Most people here have a VERY narrow view on it. In the scheme of things, the difference between a halti harness, a prong collar or a clicker are effectively the same to most dogs, at least compared to a baseball bat or dinner fork, yet we still argue over that for days.

    If someone really does have strongly held beliefs contrary to what the "general forum opinion" is, it is going to take more than a couple forum posts to make them change their minds. Find out why they feel that way and address those reasons.

    There is no reason to let it get personal. If you attack one of those members unfairly (yes, you can unfairly attack an animal abuser/a puppy miller or negligent owner) they will stop listening, and the battle to change their minds is lost. The first person to loose their cool can do this. This means that those conditions will still prevail.
     
  12. Island dog

    Island dog New Member

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    Renee:

    After reading this entire thread I now have a better understanding of the responses I've received to date. A simple solution would be to specify in your rules the beliefs you expect members to possess. It would prevent the problems which now plague this forum. Had I known at the time of signing up that purchasing a poodle/retriever cross was considered 'wrong', I would simply have not bothered and proceeded to another forum where it was acceptable. The members who have posted in this thread declaring that they can't be civil etc. because it's condoning or supporting abuse clearly want a 'private' forum and expect standards to be strictly enforced. The rules as they exist give no indication differing views will not be tolerated. In order to be fair to everyone, you need to specify only certain beliefs are welcome and that way the forum stays the same.

    Rules: 1. Please be respectful to other members and moderators. You don’t have to like or agree with everyone, but please state your thoughts in a respectful manner. Absolutely no name calling. No personal attacks.

    2. Do not “bash†new members because they don’t know about puppymills, backyard breeding or any other practice you may not agree with. Don't jump to conclusion about new members. They may not be a "troll" just because they ask a question that seems obvious to others. Education is the best way the change any problem.
     
  13. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    A fantastic view from a new member.

    Every venture benefits from new inputs from new eyes.

    People get stale and stuck in their own ways and means. If I've learnt anything recently, it's never to discredit what someone who is new can bring to a project - they have valuable new things to add.
     
  14. ACooper

    ACooper Moderator

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    Island Dog I would just like to say I am sorry for what you and goldendoodler was exposed to right off the bat.

    It's true that Chazhound is an open forum and members have LOTS of freedoms here that you won't get at other forums...........which also leaves it wide open for what you have just went through.

    All I can say is, you have an option to put some people on "ignore list" to do this you click the person's user name (right by their picture) and click "view public profile" and then you can find "add person to ignore list".........I would DO IT and still stick around, because you will find that NOT all members here are that way :)
     
  15. Island dog

    Island dog New Member

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    Thanks ACooper, I have used the 'ignore' - hopefully I won't have to use it often. Look forward to learning a lot from this forum to give Molly a great life.
     
  16. Goldendoodler

    Goldendoodler New Member

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    I didn't know there was a Ignore button, thanks Acooper, no-one told me that.They'd rather Carry on flaming me.
    I will use it hopefully not too often. :)
     
  17. PoodleMommy

    PoodleMommy Yorkie Love

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    could someone explain the ignore button to those of us (probably only me) too slow to understand.

    Say I pick to ignore Lizmo (sorry Jennifer, your the last person in the world I would not want to talk to thats why i picked you,lol)... so anyway, would she no longer see my posts or would I no longer see her posts, or both?

    I was unaware of this feature as well and would love to use it in order to cut controversy.

    thanks.

    elissa
     
  18. Dizzy

    Dizzy Sit! Good dog.

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    Just pick someone and have a play - you can turn it off again.

    I think you can see when they post, but you can't read it.

    And they can see you I think.
     
  19. SharkyX

    SharkyX Back of the Pack

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    They can see everything you write, you can see that they posted, however you don't see the content... so if you get truely curious you can disable the ignore read what they said and then turn ignore back on again.
     
  20. PoodleMommy

    PoodleMommy Yorkie Love

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    that seems pointless...lol

    I thought it would be more along the lines of you not seeing them and them not seeing you, like they were zapped out of cyber world, haha... that would have been soo much better... oh well..

    thanks for the explanation.

    Elissa
     

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