This has gone too far... (Malinois!)

[Equinox]

Nikki, I absolutely agree. Actually, there are people who, as I've said before, would not touch my dog's pedigree with a ten generation pole because of possible handler aggression and/or general tendencies to redirect on the handler. A lot of it really is unfair handling, or just poor handling or understanding of the dog itself.

I definitely don't think it should be a desired trait for the breed, and I don't believe that it is one, either. I just find it interesting, reading this thread, that talk of a "good GSD" as likened to a Malinois is closely followed by descriptions of scars, scabs, and dogs that express their demands in very physical ways. I found it odd because I do not typically hear any of those traits being offered up voluntarily, and in a positive light, when I hear people talk about good German Shepherds. Whether or not the dog possesses those traits is one thing, but the fact that it is toted as a norm and a fun, impressive trait to have in a dog is another.

I'm definitely not saying it's a right or wrong way to view either breed, just that I feel like there are some differences that ought to be drawn by someone coming from another perspective. "Good" in itself is obviously subjective, and in the end a ton of this is all a matter of semantics. I was just surprised by the consensus and wanted to voice that, because I personally found it interesting.

I think I was trying to say a lot of what you did in your post, just completely incoherently and in a rather off putting way

 

[Laurelin]

Gah I just spent an hour watching a wicked fast terv on the agility course. I keep thinking maybe after Mia goes I'll try one out. Get the BC first, then the belgian but honestly I can't see myself without a Mia-papillon around. I think a pyr shep is a better fit for a crazy herding breed.

My husband loves our dogs but he'd not choose any variety of Belgian for himself. And it isn't the wild exuberance that bothers him about them. He actually enjoys his dogs a bit crazy and of his favorites we've had here was one of the craziest (that he nicknamed Beastie). It's other little but typical things that he sees in our dogs and my friends dogs. It's the shrieking. They don't all shriek but we have a couple who do and have had some temporary shriekers too. It was really hard for him to get used to being around dogs who shrieked like they were in distress on a regular basis due to over-excitement or frustration. And it's the neediness. Especially with the boys but sometimes the girls too. Just their active neediness - pushing at you, barking at you, shoving toys at you, not being happy with just petting but wanting you to interact and really pay attention. And not taking no for an answer. It's the manipulative ways that are sort of unique to Belgians. Smart yes but sometimes they use their powers for evil instead of good

Omg that sounds like Mia. :lol-sign:

 

[monkeys23]

Aaaaaaaaand guess what came out to training today. Yep little mal puppy guy about 10wks old. He wanted to abandon his owners and come with me! Kind of hilarious actually, he kept trying to follow me despite his owners holding his leash. Sooooo cuuuuuute!!!!!!!!!!!

Its not fair that egotistical morons with more money than brains get a malinois and I don't. They are going to ruin that delightful little fellow. That guy wasn't too happy when my trainer explained that you have to slowly build up groundwork in ob and drive on pups and mostly play with them and let them be pups. Stupid owners are already talking about wanting to breed him because "he's got some nice lines in his ped." I don't think they liked us going yeah if you title the him in sport to prove him and do OFA/CERF/Cardiac, etc.... Ugh, poor puppeh.

Apparently they bought him from this breeder: http://www.absolutek-9services.com/
I've never heard of them, has anyone else?

 

[Teal]

I don't think that you would like them. Remember everything you hated about the Fila puppy? That's what Malinois are like. Malinois are like creepy stalkers that are up in your @$$ all the time.

If a Mal is going to become so obsessed with me that it won't eat or potty outside because I'm not with it 24/7, then you're right, I wouldn't like them. But from what I understand from talking to Mal owners/breeders, they aren't anywhere near as extreme as Filas in that regard.

Yeah, it sounds like you love your dogs to think and give you space which is why it sounds like your sight hound fits so well. These dogs are the opposite, flinging themselves atop you, biting, barking, demanding.

One of the most frustrating parts about mals is how composed they can look when you've put years into them. People think all mals are a breeze because your dogs look so dang good when trained, what they miss are the hundreds flooding the rescue system now because most people are positively not suited to own these dogs.

Last night during group sits and downs at the park we had three people come up in awe and assume this is something born into these dogs and they're a breeze that could do no wrong.

These aren't casual dogs, for 99% of people they make shitty pets(mine included). They spin, bark, bite first and ask later (I was convinced this was a fable and training issue before I got them), they go through windows, they challenge you, they play you, they trick you, and they obsess.

There are other breeds maintaining a similar ability, drive, and flare for show. There are other options and I encourage everyone interested to look elsewhere first. Be positive you can stomach, afford, and laugh about the negatives before you daydream about the pros.

Thinking - yes. I like an intelligent dog with a brain, not a mindless sheep. As for giving me space - don't think that because I don't allow my dogs to follow me into the bathroom that they give me space My sighthound included! They are always in my bubble, always wanting to know what I'm doing and to see if they can possibly help.

I can't say I know entirely what they're like, because I've never lived with one... But I've done a fair amount of research and spent time around both "polished" dogs and insane youngsters just starting training... and all I've seen is FUN. lol

 

[stafinois]

If a Mal is going to become so obsessed with me that it won't eat or potty outside because I'm not with it 24/7, then you're right, I wouldn't like them. But from what I understand from talking to Mal owners/breeders, they aren't anywhere near as extreme as Filas in that regard.

Well, here is an owner telling you that the above is not unusual behavior for a Malinois.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

It took 2 years for my two to not drop their food and follow me if I left the room while they ate. They still scarf fast and chase me or sometimes still leave it. I'm always more fun than their food to them, even I'd I'm just picking up poop in the yard.

When I go to the bathroom and shut the door my door is being consistently assaulted by my mals. It's not separation anxiety but boredom. My pit bulls go lay on my bed and chill, my mals pace and throw toys at the door. Most entertaining part to me is I have never given in to Sloan but 2 years later and she still tries, one magic day I'll open the door and throw her toy while I'm peeing right? These dogs are extremely determined.

I love Ellis' talk about off switches and I plan to positively try his methods with my next pup such as never playing in a room or the house that you want the off switch. That said, 2 years old and Sloan still hasn't given up the possibility that biting you in the face will get anything but a correction or punching a door will get anything but silence but the humans, etc. Even M.E. says in his talk that it's just not possible to instill a fool proof off switch for all Malinois (or high drive dogs) the dust in the air can stimulate them given the right wind.

They're extremely into their owners, obsessed even, and it has to be something you enjoy.

I literally never taught my two a recall, it just came naturally. We encouraged it of course but I never had the long line and beg times.

Quarrel is a possession runner and loved to play chase me games when Gary got him. But, one day at the park at night Q ran off with Gary's hat and played keep away. So, we all sat down across the park, at least a baseball diamond away, and waited. He waited(did I mention they're stubborn?), we waited, and along came running two bunnies cutting Qs line of vision. We all held our breathes and prepared to chase him into the desert but he didn't budge. Nor did he budge when the two cattle dogs that were chasing said rabbits literally almost jumped his body they ran by so closely chasing their game. Qs eyes never, ever broke from Gary. He wanted Gary's attention and Gary to chase, environmental stimuli be damned.

Super cool story for a super cool dog, seriously but Im trying to exemplify that these dogs, even as puppies are obsessed with their owners, like it or not.

If you decide to get a mal please rescue an adult with a known temperament, maybe some independent flukes exist. Plenty of mal breeders will sell to anyone but honestly if your not a fan of dogs being owner obsessed I wouldn't look further into this breed.

 

[Maliraptor]

OMG my last competition dog drove me nuts with the clingy. I cannot tell you how many times he would bonk into a tree/fence/wall/car when outside with me because he was too busy staring at me to watch where he was going. This also means "I forgot to potty" because they were too busy watching you. One of those where if you breathe wrong, all attention is back on you and not on bathroom break.

This is NOT so much the type of Malinois I like, and while I have another on here, I will not be breeding her.

 

[Red Chrome]

Teal - I really don't understand why you want a Mal. You just got a Magyar Agyar and have 4-5 other dogs. Mals need dedication and training.....there aren't very many close training facilities to you...according to you. Mals are a clingy breed and as Stafinois said....a lot like the Fila you returned to the breeder cause you didn't like him.

Please stay away from Malinois'. This breed isn't an easy one to rehome if you decide you don't care for it.

 

[Lizmo]

It took 2 years for my two to not drop their food and follow me if I left the room while they ate. They still scarf fast and chase me or sometimes still leave it. I'm always more fun than their food to them, even I'd I'm just picking up poop in the yard.

When I go to the bathroom and shut the door my door is being consistently assaulted by my mals.

Baha, I see now why mals are intriguing me more lately. My Border Collies does all these things.

 

[Laurelin]

Lol that sounds so like my kind of dog. I have a tendency to leave the bathroom door open (I live alone) and the entire time Mia brings me toys to throw while I do my business. I'm pretty bad because I do give in.

My favorite was her 'jump in the shower because I want to be with you while you shower' phase. Nowadays she just stands outside and whines (I had to lock her out) and brings me ALL the balls.

Unfortunately I just don't think I could give a belgian what they need at the present at least. But I do love them.

 

[AgilityPup]

OMG my last competition dog drove me nuts with the clingy. I cannot tell you how many times he would bonk into a tree/fence/wall/car when outside with me because he was too busy staring at me to watch where he was going. This also means "I forgot to potty" because they were too busy watching you. One of those where if you breathe wrong, all attention is back on you and not on bathroom break.

This is NOT so much the type of Malinois I like, and while I have another on here, I will not be breeding her.

*sigh* Although Simi is a GSD, this is exactly how she hurt her shoulder last time.. Too busy looking at me, and ended up tripping over a hole.

The more I hear about them, the more I like 'em, but not until I have fewer dogs.

 

[Red.Apricot]

Again, Elsie's not a mal, but she's completely up my butt all. the. time. She learned to open the doors in my house so that she can watch me pee. She'll open the shower door so she can watch me (to make sure I don't drown, I guess). If I lock the bathroom door, she sticks her nose under it and inhales deeply the whole time. If I don't lock the door, she drops toys in my lap.

When I'm on the computer, she spends her time either laying under my chair (which means her fur gets caught in the wheels when I back up) or laying on the very, very corner of the sofa in the other room so she can still see me. When she lays on the sofa, she gets up every 30 minutes or so to come over to make sure I'm still alive. And that's when she's sleeping--most of the time, she's bringing me toys and things she thinks are my toys, like the rolling pin, a fork, my towel, weird scraps of paper that she found on the floor, and so on. When I'm gone, she'll go steal clothes out of my laundry basket to lay on.

She won't eat her food if she thinks I'm going to leave the area. Because of the way our house is set up, I can leave the room, but our floor-plan is basically totally open, so she can still see me.

She's also the softest dog ever in the history of everything. On our walk yesterday she was pulling (because OMG Zoey is ahead of us WE MUST CATCH UP TO HER) and I said, "For the love of everything, Elsie, stop that." I didn't yell, but I used a stern tone. For the rest of the walk, she was crushed and sad, and I felt terribly guilty. I know that this level of softness isn't typical, though.

I just shifted my weight in my chair and she got up and is standing on the sofa trying to decide if we're moving or not. And I did it again, to mess with her, and now she's making weasel face.

Edit: She gave up and came in here to watch me, and make 100% certain I wasn't going to go do something fun without her.

 

[Aleron]

If a Mal is going to become so obsessed with me that it won't eat or potty outside because I'm not with it 24/7, then you're right, I wouldn't like them. But from what I understand from talking to Mal owners/breeders, they aren't anywhere near as extreme as Filas in that regard.

My mother's Belgian Cherry (not a Mal, Black Dog) ripped new siding off the house trying to get in. And tore apart two crates because she didn't want to be locked up at that moment. They aren't all that bad for sure but disliking confinement or being separated isn't all that uncommon either. And did I mention the shrieking? That's probably more common than the destroying stuff to get free. Cherry and Jagger chewed threw my seatbelts in the car multiple times because I had them locked in there while I was laying a track and they felt they should be with me and thought the seatbelt worked like a leash I guess (because they know if you chew through a leash you get loose LOL).

I


I literally never taught my two a recall, it just came naturally. We encouraged it of course but I never had the long line and beg times.

I don't think I've ever had to teach a Belgian a recall either.

She won't eat her food if she thinks I'm going to leave the area. Because of the way our house is set up, I can leave the room, but our floor-plan is basically totally open, so she can still see me.

LOL If we're traveling and I offer the dogs water in their crates, they won't drink unless I close the door and walk away - no matter how thirsty they are. They just don't want to miss the chance to do something!

 

[Red.Apricot]

LOL If we're traveling and I offer the dogs water in their crates, they won't drink unless I close the door and walk away - no matter how thirsty they are. They just don't want to miss the chance to do something!

How funny--it's like the same logic with a different outcome. :lol-sign:

 

[stafinois]

My mother's Belgian Cherry (not a Mal, Black Dog) ripped new siding off the house trying to get in. And tore apart two crates because she didn't want to be locked up at that moment. They aren't all that bad for sure but disliking confinement or being separated isn't all that uncommon either.

I had to buy this kennel for Harry because he escaped everything else: http://www.rayallen.com/product/1049/Kennels

We have to board the dogs every year for a family reunion. I chose a certain kennel because they had a super duper, Houdini-proof kennel for dogs like Harry. Also, it had an indoor/outdoor run with a closing dog door so that the staff never had to handle him. They could shut him in or out to clean the other area. That way I could stick him in a kennel, leave town, and no worries of anybody trying something stupid and getting bitten.

Well, the summer before Harry died, the morning kennel worker walked in to find Harry loose in the kitchen. She lured him back to his kennel with a treat, and was quite perplexed how it happened. A little while later, he was in the kitchen again. They finally discovered that he'd found a weak spot in the roof, and would climb up, squeeze through, drop down into Grant's uncovered 6 ft kennel, then jump out of that. So they wired it shut. Then he just tore the chain link out and did it again. Ha!

And did I mention the shrieking? That's probably more common than the destroying stuff to get free. Cherry and Jagger chewed threw my seatbelts in the car multiple times because I had them locked in there while I was laying a track and they felt they should be with me and thought the seatbelt worked like a leash I guess (because they know if you chew through a leash you get loose LOL).

Harry was a shrieker. And he chewed seat belts. I'm lucky that Stan is pretty silent other than when he's playing.

 

[Maliraptor]

I don't remember exactly, but I think Asten was about 6-7 months old when she did this overnight. She also grabbed the drapes and pulled the rod down, and shredded them, and chewed/flattened the rod.

 

[Xandra]

I don't remember exactly, but I think Asten was about 6-7 months old when she did this overnight. She also grabbed the drapes and pulled the rod down, and shredded them, and chewed/flattened the rod.

OMG :rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1: That's really good.

 

[Aleron]

I had to buy this kennel for Harry because he escaped everything else: http://www.rayallen.com/product/1049/Kennels

That looks like a good one! The thing that sort of annoys me about Cherry is that she can be just fine in a crate. I mean she can be crated for car rides. Crated at shows, etc. And she can sometimes be crated at home. But sometimes not. But sometimes not. Of course, she sleeps in an open crate pretty often but lock her in it and well, that changes everything!

Well, the summer before Harry died, the morning kennel worker walked in to find Harry loose in the kitchen. She lured him back to his kennel with a treat, and was quite perplexed how it happened. A little while later, he was in the kitchen again. They finally discovered that he'd found a weak spot in the roof, and would climb up, squeeze through, drop down into Grant's uncovered 6 ft kennel, then jump out of that. So they wired it shut. Then he just tore the chain link out and did it again. Ha!

:yikes: Bad boy!

My friend had a few fence jumping Black Dogs that would figure out ways around every modification they attempted to make to the fence. Eventually they just had to be chained in the middle of the yard when no one was out with them. Very bad!

Harry was a shrieker. And he chewed seat belts. I'm lucky that Stan is pretty silent other than when he's playing.

I admit it's always a bit of a relief when I can say "yeah this one is not a shrieker". I have another variation of shrieking with Jagger though - he "yells". He doesn't do the high pitched scream but when he's upset, excited or demanding he barks and barks and barks very loudly. He's done it so much over his life that he is almost always semi-hoarse. I think the older he gets, the more he yells.

ETA Maliraptor that picture made me :lol-sign:

 

[Maliraptor]

ETA Maliraptor that picture made me :lol-sign:

We've all been there, right? I should take pics of the drapes. I have not dared to replace them. :lol-sign:

She is now in an aluminum Kustom Krate, and we worry daily about her teeth.

We also have holes in all our T-shirts and all my tank tops from her being a puppy. Again, not confident it is safe to replace them yet...

 

[Aleron]

We've all been there, right? I should take pics of the drapes. I have not dared to replace them. :lol-sign:

Ha! The drapes must die! My friend has a Black Dog boy who has destroyed drapes in her living for...a couple years now. Every time she thinks it's safe to replace them, it turns out that no it isn't. He hangs off of them while shrieking at cars going down the road. Or while shrieking because OMG she is out in the front yard without him...and with another dog...OMG! And I admit to sending this bad dog to live with her...but I told her he was bad before she took him LOL

Oh an Adrianne...your story about the Mal playing keep away. A littermate to the dog above did that to me when I took him lure coursing last year for his owner. He didn't run away...but he didn't come to me either. He stayed just far enough away that I couldn't get him and watched me dive into the mud after him and what not. Oh and the bad Brittany was with us too LOL I was never worried about him running away but I wasn't sure how I'd be able to catch him! http://youtu.be/hBNFA9PMh9k