The right dog for her vs the right dog for me

[Laurelin]

I've been thinking about this again, especially after watching Summer deal perfectly with the offleash papillon. I need some input, especially from those of you with multiple dogs that have a DA/DR dog.

I just keep debating what to do about a second dog. I know for sure I want one, and I know it's going to be work to get Summer to accept it. I know for sure in the future, probably within Summer's life, I will have an Aussie or BC at some point. For practical reasons, a bc or aussie puppy right now is out of the question. I just don't have the time and being a student with a weird schedule would rather get an adult that I know what the temperament is. I think it'd be easier to get one and introduce it to Summer when it was a puppy. I worry about a rescue bc/Aussie not knowing how to behave around such a small dog and of course the prey drive issue. I'd personally feel much more comfortable getting a puppy from parents with good temperaments and training it to be alright around Summer.

Summer does not react well to large dogs, not even friendly ones. The only exception is German shepherds, she has never snarked a GSD and I think it is because of living with Sasha for so long. Many small dogs, she doesn't like either. She has a particular issue with dachshunds for some unknown reason. She's okay with select bcs, aussies, and shelties, but others she doesn't like. The only breeds she's never reacted to are paps (except one pap mix), poms, and chis (no matter how nasty any of those are being). I don't know if it's the look or size but she's a lot better with them than other breeds. In general, she's better with smaller dogs than bigger ones. I also think she'd get more out of having a smaller sibling.

So.. do you get a dog you think she'll get along with better or do you go with something you'd rather have? This next dog will be the last dog I can get for several years at least. My brain says get a small dog now that Summer reacts well to and wait 4-5 years until I'm ready to find a good bc or aussie breeder and get a well bred pup that can grow up around the toy dogs. I will always have the toy dogs. I've talked about it before but as the time gets closer, I get more nervous.

Of course that brings me to something... if I'm looking for a small, mild mannered, high energy, playful, friendly, intelligent and trainable dog then that puts me right back where I started! :rofl1: There's a couple really really cute paps in rescue though....

 

[CaliTerp07]

You have to get the dog for her, don't you? I'd feel guilty if whatever dog I brought home made Lucy cower/react/etc. Lucy is my first baby, and every doggy decision I make going forward will be made with her interests in mind.

That said, I'm not sure why you couldn't get a BC or aussie. Can't you take summer to the rescue events or foster homes and test it out with her? I know the rescue group I'm doing volunteer work even does 2 week "trial adoptions" if you have another dog, just to make sure the two get along okay.

 

[Laurelin]

The problem with her is any bc/aussie or any dog really basically she will react somewhat poorly to. When we brought her home, she loathed all the other dogs. I just am concerned about having to deal with that plus a size difference then trying to introduce the two and cross my fingers it will all go well. I'd feel miserable if I got a dog and she hated it.

I don't doubt that she could come to live fine with a bc/aussie, but I think it'd be a lot harder on her and a lot harder for her to get comfortable with.

 

[CaliTerp07]

But that's the same risk you're going to take bringing home any other dog, in essence. You're still going to have to introduce them and hope that Summer likes it. I agree that there's a greater likelihood of it happening if you got a chihuahua, but if you're willing to be patient and put in the time to find a dog that works with her, I think it could be done. (My rescue lets potential adopters give them a "wish list" of their perfect dog's traits, and contacts them when they think they have a match. Then you can go meet the dog and see if it's a good fit)

If you don't think it ever will though, I think you need to get the dog you know Summer will be okay with.

 

[Romy]

I know for sure in the future, probably within Summer's life, I will have an Aussie or BC at some point.

She's okay with select bcs, aussies, and shelties, but others she doesn't like.

I would think that if you know you're going to have one at some point in her life, it would be easier on her to bring them together when she is still fairly young instead of old and crochety.

Since she's all right with a few select dogs of your breed of choice, you could take her to some meet and greets or foster homes to meet the fosters and find one that she's okay with.

Also, I've seen some pretty smallish aussies. Even standard aussies on the low end of the standard are not big dogs.

 

[girlbuffalo1]

How exactly does she react? Growling/snarling snapping? Or avoidance, distrust, etc?

 

[xpaeanx]

You said she's good with some BC/Aussies so why not contact a rescue, pick a dog, and then slowly introduce summer to that dog and see what happens.

I've had some pretty snarky responses between fosters and my guys... they all got over themselves in a few weeks.

 

[Laurelin]

How exactly does she react? Growling/snarling snapping? Or avoidance, distrust, etc?

She ignores any dog until they approach her head on. If they come up to sniff, she will usually growl. If they don't back off, she will sometimes warning snap at the air next to them. When I brought her home, she avoided the other dogs at all costs. It took about 3 weeks to stop the snapping issues with the other dogs.

I guess I'm just worried the right bc/aussie isn't out there in rescue right now. I read profiles and I don't see really what I'm looking for. My needs at this point are pretty specific in regards to Summer and then the activity level I want. I guess I just think maybe I should open up my options and look less at breed and more about what would fit in with my snarky dog.

 

[lostshowfan86]

You know its always hard introducing a new dog into the pack. Let me share with you our experience

When we got Sasha, zack was 8 months old. First time he saw her there was pure hatred in his eyes (ofcourse his daddy was holding her) They calmed down rather quickly and he started playing with her and we knew it would be okay.

We got her home and he started to show her the ropes. And everything was cool.

About 3 weeks later he developed a bit of an attitude towards her....almost like "Okay you've overstayed your welcome, when are you leaving" And he started to become a bit mean to her.

Well we had already grown attached to her and there was no way we were giving either dog up.

But Zack Became withdrawn and very antisocial as time went on. I seriously thought he was depressed. Turns out he was just starting to become very sick, and he was.

They get along great now for the most part.....except when he does get sick, its almost like she tries to hunt him.

But for the most part they are the best of friends, they rarely have an scuffles.

We take them to play with their friends and they will play with their friends but they always stay close by each other and look out for each other (and they have quite a few friends). They play well in groups but the biggest issue is if Sasha feels threatened Zack will jump into defend her. Now that has become an issue with him that we are working through. He has also become a bit possessive of her on walks, if he sees another dog try to sniff at her he gets ticked. But we've started walking them seperate a lot. And he is doing much better.

Zack is still pretty anti social. With him its you pet him when he wants to be petted and sometimes I wonder if that is because we brought Sasha in....I don't know. And sometimes we have to watch because he may stay distant but really want attention and Sasha is an attention hog so sometimes we have to push her away to give him attention....we do a lot of outings seperate so they both have one on one time with us.

I will say at this point, they are the very best friends (and Zack and Summer sound a lot of like, Zack is very particular on what kind of dogs he is friendly toward...he is kind of snooty at times to be honest)

Sasha is over half of Zacks size....at one point when Zack got real sick he got down to about 6 pounds and Sasha at the time was up to about 25. (she usually stays around 23 pounds) but Zack is up to his healthy weight.

I'll tell you Sasha is real gentle with the dogs that are smaller than her. When her and Zack play tug a war she goes real easy on him. When Sasha plays tug a war with bigger dogs she is very strong (I've seen her give a boxer a rough time in tug a war) and she has pulled me out of my chair before...she is a very strong little girl.

But with smaller dogs in general and especially Zack she is real gentle......they just know.


I guess what I'm trying to say is it takes time. I thought Zack was craving canine companionship and I still think he was......the adjustment period iniatially was rough.

We did have to get a smaller dog because of apartment weight limit but honestly it was the best choice we made.


I think you just need to have summer meet a few dogs and see what she does best with.


(We didn't do that with Zack, I wanted Sasha.....but luckily things turned out well)


We still have a few issues but we are working through them (they are still young)

I think Zack and Sasha both would lay down their lives for each other......and that is a bond that can't be broken



Good luck, its not easy but you will figure out whats best


I'm sure I wasn't much help but I hope I atleast was able to give you some insight and encouragement.

 

[Fran101]

I would personally just get a young puppy from a great breeder and more likely than not, summer will warm up. a lot of dogs, even dog reactive ones have an easier time handling puppies coming into the household

and if all fails, prop the puppies ears up and make him look like a papillon!

 

[ihartgonzo]

Gonzo is DR, definitely. Luckily, there are breeds that he is pretty much bomb-proof with. He, too, is quite breedist... so I was able to use that to my advantage. However, he does despise puppies, so it was a gradual and careful introduction process and he loved Fozzie within a few weeks.

Honestly, I think that you should pick a breed for YOU, first and foremost. The fact that Summer does like some dogs of those breeds is a very good thing. Going through BC/Aussie rescue would be preferable, because these breeds have some very, very legit rescues around the country. Texas has an amazing BC rescue, I know some one in it. They would be happy to allow slow introductions in the foster home to see if Summer would like the new dog. Face-to-face greeting is threatening to most dogs! For now, I would continue working on her reactivity to new dogs and her associations (Look At That would be a great idea), and limit her meeting other dogs to a more natural environment (not on leash). When meeting a potential new dog, I would do a long parallel walk, followed by a closely monitored off-leash meeting in a neutral area.

I wish you could find a BC with the love for little dogs that Gonzo has. He would MELT at the sight of Summer, I swear! Gonzo has an incredible way with little dogs, even nasty ones... probably because he grew up trying to pacify my sister's b!tchy Chi mix. He will crawl up to them with his tail wagging furiously and let them jump all over him.

 

[FoxyWench]

heres my thoughts...

whats our situation like right now and are you ready for a BC? what kind of activity are you planning on doing wiht your bc and would you be ready NOW...

personally i feel most small breeds are "clannish" and could never just have one small dog...i feel they just prefer having someone around the same size to wrestle with.
so my first choice would be to get another small dog that YOU like as a companion to you both...
personally another pap would be nice (i dont know how clannish paps are but i know chis prefer other chis) cresties are a definate choice for you (and a GREAT consideration if youd like to also do some agility ), i think a chi might not be quite your kind of energy, there certainly a little different form having a pap.

however...
if you realy WANT a bc, your ready for a bc, and your ready to do all the things with that dog NOW...
and you have a breeder in mind ect then go for the BC now...
it also again depends in what you want in your bc, if your looking for a great agility dog form solid lines you may have a wait anyway, and if your not ready finanically/time wise to get into the sports you want to with that dog, id personally wait on it.

i think you need to focus more on geting something you BOTH would like.

(i realy think youd be a good crestie match, a good small dog with a nice energy level and great little agility dogs!)

 

[Laurelin]

Thanks for all the input! I do love cresties and paps both and they're probably the only toy breeds I'd have. I enjoy chis but I've looked into a few rescues and though they were sweet dogs as you've described, the energy is a bit different. But yeah, the paps are very very clannish dogs. They love each other a lot more than they love other dogs.

We got to hang out with some new bcs today at agility. Summer hit it off with one, snarked at the other a bit, though. Nothing too major but she didn't enjoy being stared at so much so she growled once and they were fine the rest of the time. So that means of the 4 bcs in class, she gets along really well with 2 and okay with 1, and doesn't get along at all with the other. But the last one is very very DA so it doesn't get along with any dogs. She also made a lot of progress with the lab/bc cross so much so that we had the two of them lying next to each other with no snarking. She seems a bit less inclined to like Aussies. She gets on with Gus okay but Nicky is a bit more bouncy and she's not keen on him at all.

Really for this dog I want mostly an active companion. I want a dog that will keep up and go tons of places like Summer and I do. I'd like one that would fetch and play frisbee unlike my current dog and could be a jogging companion since I've started jogging. I would like a more serious agility dog, too. I don't need a top of the competition dog, but Summer isn't likely to be much of a competition dog to begin with. I'd like something that would be as into agility as me, because while Summer enjoys it, she's not as drivey as I'd like. And also, I just plain miss having a herder. Herding breeds are just irreplaceable as much as I enjoy the paps, it's not the same. With Trey so old it's really hitting home that I'll be without one for the very first time in my life.

Playing with bcs and aussies today did not help AT ALL.

 

[Paige]

Get a dog that both YOU and SUMMER are going to be happy living with. See if there is an Aussie or a BC in a rescue that will fit. See if there is a small dog in a rescue that will fit. Or from a breeder. If not it may not be the right time for another addition. Just get out there, look, and the dog will come. Believe me. You are going to find a dog that both you and Summer will be thrilled to share your lives with.

 

[mrose_s]

I would likley go a puppy in your situation aswell.

I'm facing the same thing with Buster, I prefer males and while I know he can live happily with a male, I'm going to get a female because he allows himself to relax when he doesn't have to be keeping his big-boss front up for another male dog in the house.
I also probably won't get my Dane while I have Buster, just because I'd prefer to stick to dogs around his size/smaller while I have him, particularily as he ages.

So my next dog will be a girl, on the submissive side of things, thankfully Buster is about my perfect sized dog, I wouldn't want my second dog to be much bigger than him.

 

[Fran101]

Id go with a puppy. Most dogs deal with puppies alot better then adults
and summer will be able to play "mother" and teach the pup respect and how to act around her

a dog 5 times summers size already wont care what she has to say lol

 

[puppydog]

Honestly, I would go with another Pap. It will be nicer for Summer to have someone to actually PLAY with when you are gone.

 

[Laurelin]

Good points everyone's brought up.

Honestly, I would go with another Pap. It will be nicer for Summer to have someone to actually PLAY with when you are gone.

That's my main reason for even thinking of a small dog. With Summer's SA, it'd be nice to have dogs I didn't have to separate while I was gone. With any larger dog they won't be loose together. But then again, of all the dogs she's lived with, she's only ever really played with two of them- Nard and Tango. She will hang out with Beau and Rose but doesn't really play with them. So even getting one her size isn't going to guarantee it.

We did discuss me possibly taking Beau AND Summer since my mom died. But I decided against it, I think Beau is good for my dad to have around and he's definitely the one that keeps Nard somewhat tired. Without Beau, Nard wouldn't have most of his energy dispelling outlet.

So my next dog will be a girl, on the submissive side of things, thankfully Buster is about my perfect sized dog, I wouldn't want my second dog to be much bigger than him.

Summer's not really my ideal sized dog. Shockingly I've always preferred medium sized breeds and have always wanted something bigger. However, after our shepherd passed away I wasn't allowed anything big then when it was time to get my first dog, I was in an apartment with a 20 lb limit, so I went with a small dog again. I love the paps though, and I'll probably always have at least one (they're addicting) so it will be something I'll have to deal with eventually. It's just this is my first opportunity where I'm in a situation where I can finally get something larger. I'm not all that picky though when it comes to dogs as there are individuals of just about any breed I wouldn't mind taking home with me. I enjoy little dogs as well and wouldn't be severely disappointed if I end up with a little dog. The 'end plan' as in my ideal in 4-5 years is to have a couple small/toy breed dogs and a mediumish herding dog as well. If it happens that the 2nd small dog waits till later or the herder waits till later, I'll be fine.

I do know I HAVE to get a bc eventually. I've done too much research not to and I'd always be wondering if I didn't, if that makes sense. There is something about them I can't describe. I don't know if I like them more than paps (I dont' know if that's possible because I'm obsessed with the paps) but I do know I like them more than any other breed. Every bc I meet makes me want one even more. You'd think the crazy spazz dog yesterday that was obsessively destroying a soccer ball would make me reconsider, but it made me want one more. My father's not too keen on the idea and keeps expressing his doubts. I can't blame him though, he grew up with bcs on his farm and sees them really as only working dogs and not suitable for suburban living. He does admit that they were pretty, very smart and fun dogs, though.

My dad's solution was to get a bc and to give Summer to him. (which I told him would happen when hell froze over) Go figure he'd try to use this to steal my dog. She's started wrapping him around her finger and he has a real weak spot for papillons.

Get a dog that both YOU and SUMMER are going to be happy living with. See if there is an Aussie or a BC in a rescue that will fit. See if there is a small dog in a rescue that will fit. Or from a breeder. If not it may not be the right time for another addition. Just get out there, look, and the dog will come. Believe me. You are going to find a dog that both you and Summer will be thrilled to share your lives with.

I think that's what we're going to do. Just look around and see what happens.

 

[FoxyWench]

the right dog will find you.

there are many paps that do amazingly in agility, so you coudl stick in that line
and as i said, cresties are made to just RUN, (id love to lurecourse with ruby but theres only 1 track locally and theyll only allow "true sight hounds" to run...) but start training early with a crestie, while they love the run they tend to be a little jumpy and standoffish with new people/things if they havent been exposed to it by a year.

another thing to keep in mind is your future living situation...
if your going to be renting keep in mind that many buildings have a weight limit...would a bc push you over that

dont worry though, as others have said, the right one will find you.

 

[SisMorphine]

I say get what makes YOU happy!

Whatever dog you choose, go with a long slooooooooooooooow introduction to Summer. Crate and rotate for a while so they're used to being in the same space and can smell each other, see each other, but can't touch each other. Then start to take them for walks together, and move on from there. Mike was DA and Wally despised male dogs his side or bigger, but after a 3 months long introduction they could be out together supervised.

It'll be fine Get what you want, Summer will eventually cave