The "Dumbing down" of certain breeds..

[Amstaffer]

I personally think there is nothing wrong with breeding to make pitbulls "nicer" (which the whole thing is just bull). I have no problem with it, but I still want some pure bred Pitbulls for a gaurd dog later in my life.

For the last 65 years they have been breeding nicer Pitbulls....They are called American Staffordshire Terriers.

Pitbulls are terrible "Guard" dogs,(They are just to human friendly) that was never their purpose. If someone is looking for a Guard dog (Which I think is a bad idea to begin with) there are a ton of breeds that have been bred for this type of work. (ie Rotts, Dobs, GSDs...)

Again...it goes back to the breeder....I would love to prove a point, breed the meanest female I could find to the meanest male I could find !!! I could still produce the nicest, sweetest, off spring ever.! It all starts from the day they're whelped ! Of course I'd have to know the female and have her trust me before this could happen.

I agree completely with this quote. I firmly believe in Nuture over Nature!! Dogs will have a tendency for Dominance but you can channel that away from aggression. People really need to take responsibility for their dogs behavior.

 

[bogolove]

I completely agree Amstaffer! Well said.

 

[Rose's Gal]

I haven't read all of these posts, but here is my opinion.

You shouldn't breed a dog "down". That is what other breeds are for. If you want a Border Collie that isn't active, then you should get another breed. If somebody says they are going to be breeding a BorderCollie to get "unactive" dogs, then they must really not like the breed. A breeds quirks and cons are what make the breed unique. If you take away the cons, you get an intirally different breed.
I mean, what is a Jack Russel that doesn't dig or bark? What is a Malamute that is smaller with no pulling instinct? What is a Greyhound with no instinct to chase? What is a Labrador with no instinct to chew and mouth? What is a GSD that isn't athletic?
If people are going to be changing the purebreds, what is the point in having them? I thought the whole intire reason of breeding was to preserve your breed, so they'd be like the "dogs of old".

 

[GSDFan05]

What bothers me is when people breed for specific physical traits (smaller chihuahuas, GSDs with more angular toplines, boxers with more 'squashed' faces, etc) to exaggerate breed characteristics that are already established, all thought about overall health, temperament and nerve stability goes out the window.

Temple Grandin's book "Animals in Translation" talks about the dangers of single-trait selection. Genetics is complicated and all genes are linked to other ones, so trying to breed for a specific 'type' can have unexpected consequences in the hands of irresponsible people.

 

[RD]

Again...it goes back to the breeder....I would love to prove a point, breed the meanest female I could find to the meanest male I could find !!! I could still produce the nicest, sweetest, off spring ever.! It all starts from the day they're whelped ! Of course I'd have to know the female and have her trust me before this could happen.

I strongly disagree with this statement, but this is a bit of a touchy subject for me as I have a dog who suffers from severe genetic temperament issues.
I am a firm believer in nature over nurture. Sometimes it is -not- "all in how you raise them". It is infuriating to me to see people saying this when they have never tried thier best to rasie a dog well, and found that the dog had problems beyond their control.

I believe that -behavior- can be controlled by the way a dog is raised, but -temperament- cannot. It is genetic.

 

[Renee750il]

I don't think it's ever just one way or another. Like us, all creatures have a distinct personality and character when they are born. They can be shaped and guided, but, like us, sometimes you have a character that is just so self-determined that nothing and no one can shake it from its path.

We've all known people who were kind and loving and were wonderful parents, but had a kid who turned out to be nothing but bad news. It can work the same way with dogs, cats or anything else that thinks and breathes.

 

[joce]

I understand why someone would say they want to breed the pit down. That is because for the last fifty years or so they have been breeding them bigger and biggre adn many have been going for meaner dogs too. I did a speech on breed bans and doing the research I couldn't believie how much pits have changed in that short of a time. I would love to see some that looked how they did before horrible breeders got ahold of them. But I doubt there is enough of a want for them to have anyone do it since there are already so many that need adopted. but i think its dumb to say you want to take the herding out of the herder.

 

[Richie12345]

I have to disagree gaddy, I met a kid who was really nice. When I went to his house, his parents were jerks (ofcourse I didn't tell him that ). I know these are actually people and not dogs but still. Dogs and Humans are alike.

 

[Richie12345]

For the last 65 years they have been breeding nicer Pitbulls....They are called American Staffordshire Terriers.

Pitbulls are terrible "Guard" dogs,(They are just to human friendly) that was never their purpose. If someone is looking for a Guard dog (Which I think is a bad idea to begin with) there are a ton of breeds that have been bred for this type of work. (ie Rotts, Dobs, GSDs...)

I didn't really mean that, I was just trying to use that as an example.

 

[showpug]

It is defiantly a combo of nature AND nurture that need to play a role, BUT, I would NEVER breed an aggressive or poor tempered b_itch OR a poor tempered male. You have to improve the odds somewhere and I am a firm believer that when you breed a litter, you breed the best to the best and don't settle for anything in-between. Why even take the chance. Some dogs have genetically programmed temperments and that is part of what make certain breeds the way they are.

 

[Richie12345]

...I would NEVER breed an aggressive or poor tempered b_itch OR a poor tempered male...

I believe that if you do that you can still get a sweet natured dog, sure it might be harder, but it's still possible.

 

[Rose's Gal]

I understand why someone would say they want to breed the pit down. That is because for the last fifty years or so they have been breeding them bigger and biggre and many have been going for meaner dogs too. I did a speech on breed bans and doing the research I couldn't believie how much pits have changed in that short of a time. I would love to see some that looked how they did before horrible breeders got ahold of them. But I doubt there is enough of a want for them to have anyone do it since there are already so many that need adopted. but i think its dumb to say you want to take the herding out of the herder.

Well, if you were breeding the Pit to be what it was 50yrs ago, that wouldn't be "changing" the dog. That would be fixing what the irrisponsible breeders have done. Pits are supposed to be around 60-80lbs I do believe, but many are 100+lbs. I think what she ment with "breeding the Pits down" was totally taking the dog aggresivness out of them. A Pit's charactor is to be dog aggresive, just like it is a Border Collie's character to herd. If you take that away, you take away part of the breed, IMO.

 

[Renee750il]

. . . Some dogs have genetically programmed temperments and that is part of what make certain breeds the way they are.

So right! Some of us are fighting tooth and nail to save our Filas' temperaments. Many of the show breeders in Brazil (and other places) are breeding the temperament and ojeriza down, if not completely out to make a docile pet dog - ruining the unique temperament and destroying the working instinct that makes these dogs perfect for doing what they do.

If someone wants a docile, agreeable, malleable Mastiff they should get an Olde English or even a Bull Mastiff and leave the Filas to fill the niche they have been bred for centuries to fill.

 

[GSDFan05]

I agreed that temperament and nerve stability can be genetic. Some of it has to do with how a dog is raised, I guess you could look at it as a "nature loads the gun and nurture pulls the trigger". If personality had no genetic component, you wouldn't see the distinctive behaviors and characteristics that are so obviously different from breed to breed.

 

[Renee750il]

"nature loads the gun and nurture pulls the trigger"

You put that perfectly!

 

[Love4Pits]

Owning three Pitbulls I personally would'nt want them any other way. And a good point to make not ALL pitbulls have problems with other dogs. My pitbulls socialize with my Sibes and Chins everyday including Jamies dogs and I have yet to have a problem. All three of my dogs are spayed or neutered and have gone through seriouse training. I truly beleive it all goes to training not breeding i personally think people who want to breed to calm down a dog really doesent want a DOG in the first place. They don't want to put the training into it. Kinda like delawing cats.

Siberian Huskies have ultimately been ruined by the akc. Sibes bred just for showing don't have the ability and are in no way as fast or athletic as working Sibes (What I breed, own, and race). Siberians have really seen dark days in the breed and even darker im sure are to come. But what can I do about it?