The clusterflump we call a "breed standard"

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by SevenSins, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. SevenSins

    SevenSins Guest

    Something on Facebook today struck me as hilarious and sad at the same time. The revised UKC standard for the APBT states, "The topline inclines very slightly downward from the withers to a broad, muscular, level back. The loin is short, muscular and slightly arched to the top of the croup, but narrower than the rib cage and with a moderate tuck-up. The croup is slightly sloping downward."

    Would the class care to point out what is wrong with this statement? :p What inconsistencies or contradictions are in the standards for your breed?
     
  2. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I'm not seeing it, to be honest. Maybe the terms used for dogs aren't the same as horses? I admit to knowing horse body parts much better - and for a horse, I don't see anything contradictory.

    Or is the "inclines downward" what you are referring to? That's kind of an odd word choice.
     
  3. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

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    The two mentions of "inclines downward" makes me think you're going to end up with dogs who look like showline GSDs soon enough...
     
  4. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    Bolded is what I read.

    But many GSD people everywhere hate me for my usage of "level back" meaning a STRAIGHT, level, test it with a leveler type of topline. Not a sloping one.

    So I could be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  5. Flyinsbt

    Flyinsbt New Member

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    Okay, you can't incline downwards, but it's not a bad description. It's more descriptive than the SBT standard, which just states the topline should be "level". Which people sometimes interpret that it should be tabletop flat, which is not very functional. In reality, a correct topline is considered by most of us to be similar to what it sounds like yours describes. Higher at withers, level back, slight arch over loin, slope at croup.
     
  6. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    I guess I split the "back" up into smaller bits.

    I read it as
    The topline inclines very slightly downward from the withers
    The dogs withers should be slightly higher than the main portion of the back


    to a broad, muscular, level back
    The area between the withers and the loin should be level with good muscular definition, and "broad" as in, not dropping off from the spine.

    The loin is short, muscular and slightly arched to the top of the croup, but narrower than the rib cage and with a moderate tuck-up.
    .The area just behind the back, where the ribs end, should continue to be well muscled, but should get more narrow than the back (because there are no more ribs springing it out). It should arch up towards the point of the croup where..

    The croup is slightly sloping downward."
    It then drops off slightly to the tail.

    *shrug* Like I said, I'm a horse person more than a dog person when it comes to this sort of thing. But it all sounds good to me, and much like what I would want in a sport horse, although the loin doesn't tend to narrow as much in a horse as a dog.
     
  7. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

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    Well, I guess to me it seems like a bit of a contradiction. First, they say the topline is slightly sloping. Then they say its level. Then they say there is a slight arch to the croup, then they say the croup is sloping downward. I am picturing a dog with a zig-zag topline..
     
  8. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    Be jealous of my mad art skills.

    [​IMG]

    These are the four components as I see them being mentioned in the standard. Are you sure this isn't the standard for a pony?

    I was going to steal a picture of an APBT, but did you know that when you google image "conformation shot pit bull" both a horse and Traveler come up on the first page? I got distracted.
     
  9. JessLough

    JessLough Love My Mutt

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    So it does... :lol-sign:

    ETA: I don't see a horse, but I see Traveler, a kitten and a kit/baby ferret
     
  10. Lyzelle

    Lyzelle New Member

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    A high wither isn't always desired in horses, particularly warmbloods. Croup is also a huge variance, depending on what the horse is built for. A downhill/uphill/level topline is also measured from the top of the shoulder to the top of the hip...not as the topline as a whole. The length between should also be much shorter than the underline in order to create balance.

    In short, dogs and horses are different beings, and judged differently even within their own species. What is desirable in a horse, is not always desirable in a dog. And vice versa.
     
  11. BostonBanker

    BostonBanker Active Member

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    Oh, I wasn't trying to pass judgement on whether or not that is a good standard; my knowledge of APBT conformation is pretty much the same as my knowledge of nuclear physics. But it doesn't seem contradictory to me, as the OP implied, because it sounds like what I (tried) to draw.

    To me, the standard describes four very distinct parts of the body (withers, back, loin, croup).
     
  12. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

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    That's how I read it, too. I think it definitely CAN be confusing if you're reading it quickly and there are all these up/down/straight/arched/etc words in there.

    The only bit I thought was odd was "inclines very slightly downward" - I'd reword it as "slopes very slightly downward" since incline is generally understood to be sloping upwards.
     
  13. Aleron

    Aleron New Member

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    I'm not a horse person but I read it the same as you. To me, that is what is meant by those terms.
     

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