The Belgian Breeds

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by AgilityKrazii, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. AgilityKrazii

    AgilityKrazii Addicted to Agility

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    I'm really looking into owning one of these dogs in the future as I have been doing alot of research on all 3.
    Now I know when the breed was created the Terv, Mal and Sheepdog were all considered one breed. Now when then got reconized by AKC or maybe earlier they were seperated into the 'breeds' know today.
    Now I would just like to know what the main differences are between the 3 of them. Because when I was reading about them I came across info saying that the Mal can have a protective streak and be possive, yet I never came across that when researching the Terv but if they are all the same breed then that doesnt sense so thats what I would like to clear up and figure out how the 3 of them differ from each other temperament wise

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

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    with all your research you should know that their are 4....

    Groenendael, Laekenois, Tervuren, and the Malinois. (whoops messed up one, but there are still four lol)

    Good luck with your search
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  3. AgilityKrazii

    AgilityKrazii Addicted to Agility

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    haha right, I totally forgot the 4th guy but thats because I'm only interested in the Malinois, Terv and Grodnendael(Sheepdog)
     
  4. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    They are all high drive and high energy. Yes, Mals can be protective. Not any more so than a good GSD. Mals also can be a bit on the nervy side. I don't know about the other varieties.

    The AKC did split three of them into separate breeds and dropped the fourth. The UKC and CKC recognize them as varieties of one breed. The dogs themselves do not know that they're supposed to be different breeds. You can breed a Mal to a Mal and get a Terv.
     
  5. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    they were always seperate breeds in belgium, the AKC & it's affiliated club lumped them together. because of this the american lines will throw sports that look like the other breeds. they aren't the only group of breeds to be lumped together. at one time the flat, curly coat & labrador were all varieties of one retreiver breed even though the brits considered them seperate breeds. it's a common problem, the AKC & their associated clubs think they know another country's dogs better than they do.
     
  6. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Uh...You got that a little backwards. AKC is the only registry that recognizes the varieties as separate breeds.

    History & Description of the Belgian Malinois

     
  7. StillandSilent

    StillandSilent New Member

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    This is actually something I've never understood. So if Mal is bred to a Mal, and has a Terv, does the AKC recognize it as a Terv or a Mal? (oooh, I made a tounge twister!)
    I just don't get how one purebred can give birth to another without screwing up the system.
     
  8. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    I'm not completely sure how it works out but I think that AKC would register it as a Mal and it would not be able to show in conformation but would still be able to compete in performance events. It's not that one purebred is producing another. They're all the same breed. They just have different coats. Not really any different from breeding a pair smooth collies and getting a puppy with a rough coat.
     
  9. AgilityKrazii

    AgilityKrazii Addicted to Agility

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    Thats really weird, AKC should have just kept them one breed with varitiys like Collies I dont see the advantage in making them seperate breeds if they are all really the same breed haha talk about confusing!

    Thats were I find the temperaments kind of confuseing because if they are all the same breed then what is really different temperament wise, thats what I really want to find out so I can decide which of them would be the best match for me.
     
  10. AgilityKrazii

    AgilityKrazii Addicted to Agility

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    What exactly do you mean by that?
     
  11. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Actually, AKC has proposed combining them into one breed. The parent clubs for each variety isn't going for it.

    They do have similar drives and temperaments. The differences are more along the lines of differences from one bloodline to another. Even within a variety, there will be differences as breeders select for what they're breeding for. For example - a breeder selecting for agility might produce dogs that are less protective than someone breeding for police dogs.

    Their stimuli threshold is low, they're quick to react, they frustrate easily.

    Some have environmental soundness issues. Some have difficulty recovering. There are some really amazing Mal's who are very confident and stable.

    Mal's shouldn't be nervy. Unfortunately, there are too many Mal breeders who overlook some aspects of temperament and produce weaker nerved dogs.
     
  12. Hillside

    Hillside Original Twin

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    Ooh! ooh! I can answer this one. A friend of mine is a Belgian person and has an...........all black Terv. At least that is what his AKC papers say. Both of his parents were registered "normal" looking Tervs, but Twister is black.
     
  13. Pops2

    Pops2 New Member

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    about 15 years ago, i was taught by a dutchman (kid really as he was in his early 20s but it's what his dad, who worked mals, taught him) that chien de berger belge was a type designation like cur or coonhound. they were already seperate breeds & lines.
    Reul's caution against mixing would be equivalent to cautioning bmc, catahoula, leopard cur, lacy, mt cur & plott breeders against mixing their dogs. it's not generally done but some individuals do it to make a dog suited to their specific needs. the problem for the belgians doing it was they were dealing w/ a lot less dogs total and even less in any specific breed.
    the opposite side of that is lumping them all together. there is a huge amount of overlap in structure & color between all the cur breeds and if you lumped them as one breed in say britain or oz they would not necessarily see the differences so much as the similarities. in the end they would mix & evolve into one mixed cur breed in the other country especially if you had a small number of each to begin with. that is the threat the belgians faced in their OWN country & why Reul cautioned against mixing the breeds.
    ETA
    the nervy thing has to do w/ being overbred for reduced bite inhibition. they are notorious for biting their own handlers under high stress.
     
  14. AgilityKrazii

    AgilityKrazii Addicted to Agility

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    So the key to getting a 'normal' Mal or any other the others is just finding a good quality breeder whos dogs arent nervy.
     
  15. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Yes I have seen Mals bite their owners in frustration on the agility course. Tervs seem much more mellow. I think also Tervs are popular conformation dogs there are more breeders breeding for a pet temperament.
     
  16. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Pretty much. :) Not so easy if you go with the Malinois variety, but doable.
     
  17. AgilityKrazii

    AgilityKrazii Addicted to Agility

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    There is actually a dog localy who is a Belgian Sheepdog(Grodendale) who does exactly that, bites the owner on an agility course out of frustration if she is late in her cues or slows down the dog is on her jumping and biting her, she has scars up and down her arms.
    I think thats a training issue something that can be solved with the dog learning some rules and understanding that is not acceptable.
     
  18. AgilityKrazii

    AgilityKrazii Addicted to Agility

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    Do the Tervs tend to be more wary of things as pups then Mals or does it just depend on the line and or specific dog.
     
  19. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    That is certianly a help (the training) I have seen dogs of all breeds do it. But some of the worst culprits, even WITH some fantastic training have been Mals.
     
  20. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Tyr learned that it's not acceptable. Tyr was amazingly good about understanding that and respecting that. Until he turned four. With increased maturity came increased drive and increased frustration when his drives weren't satisfied.

    Much of preventing it really falls on the handler's ability to not trigger it.

    I have no idea about Tervs. Mals as pups tend to not be so wary. The wariness comes if they haven't been adequately socialized ~ and not all mal breeders get that part right. It's not so much wariness as it is "omgomgomgsomethingMOVED!!" and "WHOAthe ground feels different iamnotmoving!!"

    A malinois definitely takes a level of experience that is easily underestimated.
     

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