Swing Finish

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Linds, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    Ok, so I kinda feel silly being intimidated by the swing finish but I am :D I've never trained it before and just wanted people's opinion on how to go about training it

    I want to do it with minimal luring if possible and yes I do use a clicker so don't hesitate to say mark the behavior. I also want a left and right finish so I would assume that I should just make sure that from the start I do it on both sides without favoring one or the other?

    Sooo, idea's please! How did you all train it?
     
  2. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    two canines
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    They look nothing alike so you can train one without the other and it won't matter.
     
  3. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I use luring + clicker...but I only use a food lure 3 times before I get rid of it.
     
  4. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    I don't mean going around me, I mean a swing on both sides, identical behavior but a mirror

    I also want a fun pop in his step at the end, I know that will come later though :D
     
  5. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    two canines
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    Why would you want an swing on both sides? Unless doing CARO rally versatility there's no reason for my dog to be on my right..
     
  6. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    Mainly, because I want too :)

    I like having my dog be able to do things on both sides and not get stuck with one or the other. I'm going to teach him a "front" from behind, finish facing away from my front and then heel backwards as I walk forwards.

    And, dogs can heel from either side in Ring sports, which he will be doing
     
  7. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    4 dogs
    Location:
    here
    For a swing finish I start with me standing in front of him so he's in a sit front position. Then I take a step towards him, kind of angling my step slightly to my right, so he ends up on my left. I tell him to heel and keep walking. Once he has the idea in motion I start taking fewer steps of heeling and I ask for a heel before I step towards him, eventually fading that cue.

    I also find that teaching pivots helps them get the idea faster. The only thing about doing it that way is sometimes you get a flip finish instead of a swing. ;) I haven't found a good way to train one or the other between those two.

    If you want it on both sides, I would work both sides. Use a different word for him to go to the right.
     
  8. Saeleofu

    Saeleofu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    9,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I don't see a problem working on both sides - in fact I encourage it! I started out teaching Gavroche to heel on my right side. It was actually by accident, but it worked out well. Now when I'm out with both dogs, I say "heel" and I have a dog on either side of me :D
     
  9. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    That's very helpful, thanks! I have been working on the pivot because I figured no matter how I taught swing, that motion would be a good one to have some muscle memory for

    I think it's always nice to have a heel on both sides also. With Kaylee I did more of a tight heel on the left but loose leash next to me on either side. I bike with her on the right all the time so she's also learned to stay pretty nicely next to me like that too

    It was funny, the first time after I had been biking with her for a month on the right I went to the petstore and she had been walking on the left. I grabbed a cart and she immediately got onto my left side into her bike position :rofl1:
     
  10. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    6,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Two dogs, three cats
    Location:
    Central Texas
    I like CP's method.

    But the way I do it is that I teach a hand touch first, and then use the hand to "lure" the dog around into position. It IS easier if you teach pivots as well. And yes, finish left is a different behavior - to the dog - than finish right, but you can teach them at the same time or at different times, it doesn't matter. At work we teach our dogs to walk on both sides, and IME it's way easier to teach them at the same time, than to get the dog really patterned to working on one side and then switching.
     
  11. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    I simply teach heel. When my hand goes into heel position so does the dog ;)

    I used to teach it by taking a step back with my left leg and cueing heel. But no I just simply teach heel thoroughly and as a location vs an action and it saves so much trouble. (ie lateral and pivot movements)

    Teaching a swing finish isn't nessisary if your dog *knows* heel is what I am saying.

    Though as someone who has done obed and does do rally (will get back to obed when my dogs are too old and stiff for agility lol) I would suggest you teach the basics thoroughly before you get into 'fancy' stuff. If you ever want to compete it helps, and it saves you teaching a lot of stuff you don't need to as it will come when the basics are done.

    And I do have cues for dogs to work both sides of me, and in front. But I have no need of a right swing at this point, figure it is not worth the potential mis cues in other sports.
     
  12. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    I get that, I really do and agree that I want Heel to be a location but how does that that work for a finish if you have multiple ways to finish? Such as around and swing or whatever else I decide to do to get them in that spot? How do they know when I say heel if I want an around or a swing?

    I get this, and I wasn't going to be teaching it in the next few days, I'm still working on the bascis but wanted to get an idea of how to start it when I'm ready, or like corgipower said- work on pivots

    A lot of this is for fun and to keep his mind going
     
  13. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    I have swing finish, which is just a 'heel' cue. And an around, which is a twitch of a finger on my right hand.

    I don't need to teach pivots, as they are part of heel... Once my dog will heel backwards super tight sexy left pivots just happen.

    My philosophy is to keep it as easy as possible. I get so many people (when I was competing) asking me how many hours we trained. I was like a couple of min a day....
     
  14. elegy

    elegy overdogged

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,720
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    i used (and will continue to use) a simple lure and reward +/- clicker for finishes, and then shrink the hand motion as the dog understands.
     
  15. CharlieDog

    CharlieDog Rude and Not Ginger

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    9,419
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    Location:
    Georgia
    Okay, maybe I can reply to this now that I don't feel like total crap.

    The way I taught Enzo was luring, and rewarding when she was in the correct position. I'm still working on heeling backwards and the "pivot" type of left finish, but she will left finish by making a rather tight circle back into heel from the left. The cue for that is "get in" and the cue for the right finish is "around". Conversely, the cue for the left about, is just "about", not that that has anything to do with it, but she understands the individual cues, even though two of them sound similar.

    Anyway, I lured her into the finish, since she already knows to come to front, and just made the circles she comes into smaller and small. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong at first, but once I switched to a different cue (I was telling her to heel. She didn't/probably still doesn't view heel as a position, but rather as a position when we're in motion)

    In this case, the cue for the left finish is "get in". Once I changed the cue, she learned it rapidly. She's 100% reliable in most situation's with the get in cue, and as a bonus, understands get in as a position, and will "get in" tighter to me if I say get in while we're either stationary or in motion. I know I should have a different cue for that, but if it works, why knock it.


    Wait until you start trying the left about ;) I was terrified of it, but Enzo was like "pssht, this is it!? easy peasy!" and so I really didn't have as much trouble as I'd anticipated with it.

    Rally is a ton of fun, and I wish I'd started earlier with Enzo!
     
  16. SpringerLover

    SpringerLover Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    3,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    fiver
    Location:
    B-ville
    Home Page:
    Pivot boxes/pedestals are wonderful.
    About 2:25 is Chuckles pivoting. (The whole video is adorable though.)
    YouTube - Chuck's 1st Week
     
  17. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    I wanted to say thank you to everyone who took the time to write out how they did it and I'm absorbing everything!

    Ok, then let me ask you this-how did you go about really hammering in that heel is a location?

    And what's your favorite way to teach backwards heel? I've started that and he's getting is slowly but it's still awkward

    That's actually what I've been doing with him and how I was and still kinda am considering teaching it. And yes, the entire video is full of adorable
     
  18. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    When the dog is heeling well for simple things, moderate pace, no tight corners then I start to mix it up.

    So I try to 'gently' loose the dog. I might try a change of pace, or a sharper turn. If the dog stays with me, or makes an effort too, click big treat, act like its A VERY BIG DEAL and go back to playing easy.

    As the dog gets better I will get sneaker to try to loose the dog. Maybe take a step sideways. Always a big reward for sticking to my left leg like glue.

    For backwards I usually will halt, take a half step (not far enough the dog would want to spin, just far enough for the dog to go 'oh oh not in heel') backwards and wait. Usually the dog will scoot back with a big grin on her face- the 'ha ha didn't loose me' look. Now I usually drop my shoulder back and down a bit before I move back or pivot left, as it becomes a signal that reverse is in order. This helps when you want to start doing tight left pivots. The dog knows to get ready to back around you when you drop your left shoulder back a bit...
     

Share This Page