Standard poodles

M

Manchesters

Guest
#21
What about hips and eyes? This female should have had preliminary hip xrays, and should be CERFd also. That crap about not showing is another way of saying BACKYARD BREEDER. And BE SURE the parents hips, eyes and hearts were checked out. Standards have the same problems as Dobes.....hips, eyes, cardio. Not sure about vWD. TESTS, TESTS, TESTS, TESTS. Also you want a lifetime warranty against inherited diseases!!!!!!!

AND A COPY OF THE PEDIGREE!!!! Old Dog can tell you if the pedigree is any good or not. I don't know diddley about Poodle bloodlines!
 

juliefurry

Rusty but Trusty
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
6,209
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
United States
#22
Manchesters said:
What about hips and eyes? This female should have had preliminary hip xrays, and should be CERFd also. That crap about not showing is another way of saying BACKYARD BREEDER. And BE SURE the parents hips, eyes and hearts were checked out. Standards have the same problems as Dobes.....hips, eyes, cardio. Not sure about vWD. TESTS, TESTS, TESTS, TESTS. Also you want a lifetime warranty against inherited diseases!!!!!!!

AND A COPY OF THE PEDIGREE!!!! Old Dog can tell you if the pedigree is any good or not. I don't know diddley about Poodle bloodlines!
She said that all her dogs were tested and I would get proof of that when I got the puppy (or adult dog). She said she never got into showing her dogs. She said that I will get a warranty and a pedigree and papers as well (the adult dog had already been registered). I haven't even met this woman just spoke on the phone a couple times and emails I have talked to one other breeder though as well.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
6,125
Likes
0
Points
0
#23
Good luck Julie! This is really exciting...if you do get a standard, you HAVE to post pictures ASAP! They are some of the greatest dogs...
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#24
I doubt that you can get a lifetime warrenty against genetic health problems. I don't know how it is with Poodles, but with Dobes, all I could do was look at the past lines and see if they were RELATIVELY healthy. For instance, DCM and cancer is in ALL lines of Dobermans....they don't all get it, but the genes are there because the gene pool from which they are all bred, is small. I suspect it's the same thing with all purebred dogs. I couldn't expect someone to guarantee something like that.

Look online and find out about the genetic health issues and then, IF you trust your breeder (I'd be suspect if she has no titles on any dogs and wouldn't choose this breeder) ask about past dogs in the lines of the dog you're interested in. Ask to see proof of genetic health tests.

Dobermans don't have too much problem with hip dysplasia, but can have it. It's just not a very widespread problem like it is in some other breeds like GSDs etc. Again, I don't know about Poodles so I'd encourage you to get on the breed club and AKC site and see what you can find out. I do know about the retinopathy and blindness thing and think I read somewhere about Von Willebrands, but not sure. That's a bleeding disorder which in breeds other than Dobes is usually very serious. With Dobes, it's very, very prevelent, but not usually as serious a form. (but sometimes)

Anyhow, I'd be very careful about this breeder. I know that showing isn't everything but if a breeder is really into improving the breed (which is why a breeder should breed and that's the only reason they should) then they would want to know how their dogs measure up, according to judges who are experts at judging and how their dogs stack up against other Poodles. Some obedience titles and field work shows that the dogs have the temperament and brains in line with what they were bred to do....work along side man. Conformation titles say that the dogs in the lines have exemplary conformation and that is important in breeding to keep the dogs adhearing to the standards. Poor conformation results in skeletal ill health and wavering off the standard. At any rate, not showing any dogs smells of back yard breeder to me.

I realize that in some cases, the breed clubs have caused deteriorating quality in their breed, IMO, the GSD, for one. However, I don't believe that is the case with all breeds, not at all. The standards are there and they are usually a good thing to measure by and that's why showing and titles and all that shows that the breeder is striving to meet the standards set forth.

There are plenty of other breeders out there who are reputable. I'd keep on checking. It can prevent pre mature heartache, not to mention vet bills up the ying yang later on.
 

Fran27

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
10,642
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
46
Location
New Jersey
#25
I have to disagree... Grammy never showed her dogs but she did all the tests too, and that doesn't make her a bad breeder... In my opinion, as long as the parents have got all the testing done, you know that the line is healthy, and you don't want to show your dog, it doesn't matter if the parents were showed or not. I have nothing against people who breed healthy dogs as pets - not as show dogs. I'll never really understand why people think that all breeders should work so hard on improving the breed when all the puppies will be sold on spay/neuter contract and will never be used for breeding anyway?

But yeah again, it comes back to everyone's definition of a responsible breeder etc... But I certainly wouldn't discard a breeder because they don't show.
 

juliefurry

Rusty but Trusty
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
6,209
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
United States
#26
It's not that she has NEVER shown dogs. She said many, many moons ago she used to show for a short time and she never really got into it. So her two dogs that she has now have never been in shows. She only breeds every other heat (if that) she said. And she's going to be looking into getting another female because her's is getting fairly old. I am talking to another breeder of standards as well though. I am not just going to jump on the first standard that comes my way I really want to make sure I don't go to a BYB.
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#27
I think if some of the dogs in the lines have been shown, that can be fine. In fact, some of the very reputable breeders I spoke with prior to getting my Dobe did show their dogs, but there would be one here and there, even the one who was being bred who was said to not like showing....hated the ring. But this dog had a sire and/or dam who had been awarded titles.

Even if a dog is being bred as a pet and will be spayed/neutered, all dogs should be bred with the intent to make each litter better than the last generation...improve on the breed. There are already enough dogs being born all the time that breeding dogs should be done very, very carefully and not bred just to make more puppies. Look at all the puppies out there who don't have homes. IMO.

I'm sure there are some breeders who are so familiar with their breed and so consciencious as to breed very high quality, healthy dogs with excellent conformation and temperaments. But there are also many, many more byb who are not at all consciencious and haven't a clue what they're doing. So, this is why I say to watch out and see if the dogs have something to go by, some standard to guage by...such as show records/titles etc along with all the appropriate health testing/temperament testing etc. Those titles tell you something, that compared to other dogs of this breed, this dog has been shown to be quite superior according to some judges who are expert in that breed. It's awfully hard to tell if a breeder is the conscienctious type or not without anything to show for it, unless a buyer is an expert in choosing a dog and even then, without health testing proof, how do you know? That isn't even a guarantee that the dog won't get some genetic problem but it's a step in the right direction....it helps with the odds.
 

juliefurry

Rusty but Trusty
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
6,209
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
United States
#28
I have been looking at rescues for standards but they are so picky when it comes to who their dogs are adopted out to. I sent in an application and just as I suspected they said that because our house wasn't fenced they couldn't allow their dog to go to us also they were concerned we had other dogs as well. I think my husband would feel more secure going with a breeder as well. We had such iffy experiences with the two dogs that we have from shelters he doesn't want to adopt anymore.
 

Athebeau

New Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
663
Likes
0
Points
0
#29
Just because a dog has won Championship titles at conformation dog shows does not mean it's a healthy dog.
 
Last edited:

bridey_01

Kelpiefied
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
760
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Australia
#30
Personally I wouldn't be at all worried if a breeder didn't show their dogs. Then again, up until I got Azlan I would usually only buy border collies or kelpies from farmers. I would be most concerned with health and temperament tests, and if all that was clear I wouldn't much care how the dog stacks up against others of it's breed, that is unless you are actually concerned if the dog is an inch or two taller or has a spot of white where she shouldn't.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#31
Bridey, good to hear someone else knows about "farm bred" dogs. Some of these old fashioned farmers have a much better eye for good stock, whether it's a calf, a sheep or a pup, than high tech breeders, especially where a working dog is concerned. I know I'd far rather have a German Shepherd that was bred by one of these old masters than one with a long string of pedigrees and claims to "European lines!" And the phrase "farm bred" means quite a bit in the Fila world.

Julie - I'm glad you're going to check this dog out with an open mind. It seems as if there is kismet at work here . . .
 

Athe

New Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
384
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
55
Location
Canada
#33
Renee & Bidey, finally people who don't raise hackles when mentioned that show dogs in conformation arent all that! :D
The reason farmers and mushers can breed such great lines of dogs is due to breeding for behavioral conformation that matches their jobs. For instance the best mushing dog is a combination of different breeds called the Alaskan Husky, the gene pool is constantly flooded with new genes and don't get caught in stagnent purebred gene pools. Border Collies are bred for behavioral conformation and showing eye properly...if the dog does not show eye then they are not used for future breeding. The border collies can have prick ears, tipped ears etc. there is no fault for looks and beuty...they are bred for health and stamnia...this is something our kennel clubs are going to have to think about in the future before our current kennel club purebreds suffer from too many inherit disease and start opening up the stud books to create healthy dogs...not pretty dogs.
I read about how the border collie club protested when the AKC wanted to recognize the border collie. The border collie club "knew" that the kennel clubs would ruin thier breed. :( They still are not recognized by the Canadian Kennel club, at least they have been able to stay out of that kennel club. I talked with a few people who field trial their border collies and they attended a few conformation shows and were mortified at what they were placing. :(
Anyhow, it's nice to know we can discuss this without being attacked.
 

juliefurry

Rusty but Trusty
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
6,209
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
United States
#34
Ok, I have been talking to two different breeders and now I am at the point where I would like to go and see the dogs from both the breeders. The one breeder has the adult and puppy and the other breeder has just a puppy. As much as I wouldn't really want to go through the puppy thing agian I think that maybe a pup would be best. I'm just SO confused. I know I'll get the puppy and be slamming my head agianst the wall in a few days. The second breeder (who is farther) sounds like she has a better deal going with her dogs. She emailed me and said: both parents have been tested for hip dysplasia and tested good and both parents have excellent temperments. She said the sire was given top marks on temperment on his last show in July. She also said the puppy will be 8 weeks tomorrow and I mentoned that I wouldn't be able to pick the puppy up for a few more weeks (the 23rd of September) she said that is fine because she would rather the pup stay with the mother for longer than 8 weeks. She seems like a nice woman all together and when I mentioned that I would actually like to meet the parents she was so happy that I was taking the interest to want to meet them instead of just having the puppy shipped and not bothering. I also told her the other breeder I was dealing with and they were somewhat close to each other and she just said "you know she doesn't do any health tests?" So I think it's definetely worth paying the extra money to get the puppy from the lady who does the health tests (seeing as the other breeder must have lied to me and said she did do the tests when she didn't).
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#35
Well, if they're bred like that, then that's great. But the trouble is, a lot of bybs don't breed that way (farm bred) and they don't breed any good dogs at all. I got my Dobe from a very well thought of breeder who shows, has shown for years and has #1 Dobe in the country. There's nothing wrong with his conformation or any of her dogs. They're beautiful and also able to do what they were bred to do. So, while it may be true with some breeds not being bred well by show people, that is not the case with every breed at all or all within a breed. If everyone bred dogs according to what they thought a dog should be like, there would be variations all over the place and the dogs would not all look the same at all. There wouldn't be a particular breed if people strayed and bred their own way. That is why there are standards. If theres something wrong with a standard, then the breed club ought to do something about it....the owners of that breed who are in the club.
 

Fran27

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
10,642
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
46
Location
New Jersey
#36
I think meeting both breeders is a good idea. Make sure to ask for proofs that the parents were tested for everything and not just hips... You know all this is starting to make me paranoid about ever contacting a breeder for a dog if the first one really lied to you... but again maybe the second one really wants to sell their pup so they're the ones who lied. Anyway, you'll be able to see for yourself.

To be honest though, I think that two pups is a handful, and I would get an adult dog if I were you, or wait a year or so and get a puppy... But you know better than me what you can handle. Have you contacted some rescues?
 

poeluvr

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,905
Likes
0
Points
0
#37
juliefurry said:
Ok, I have been thinking about other dogs and maybe adopting an adult from a rescue or something. I probably won't adopt for ATLEAST 2 years though, not until my two are out of their puppy stage. Does anyone know the pros and cons of this breed? I was just curious because I hear that they are really intelligent and I think they are so beautiful. I really want a standard though because I like big dogs more than I like little ones (I'm not bashing toy or minuatures).
havn't you just lost a lot of your animals ,don't you wanna give it time?2 dogs a few cats? you have 2 puppies now dont you?
 
Y

yuckaduck

Guest
#38
LEA said:
havn't you just lost a lot of your animals ,don't you wanna give it time?2 dogs a few cats? you have 2 puppies now dont you?

And your business in this is what??? Don't you think it is kinda rude to talk about stuff like that.
Cats-severe allergies to-not her fault
Shelby-died cancer-not her fault
Mack-aggressive biter-not her fault

So what's the problem with her thinking about getting a poodle???
 

poeluvr

New Member
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,905
Likes
0
Points
0
#39
well its a question that i am curious to know, doesnt have to answer it.
so u know what yukon, just calm down, i was not asking this meanly.havent been on in a while
 
Y

yuckaduck

Guest
#40
LEA said:
well its a question that i am curious to know, doesnt have to answer it.
so u know what yukon, just calm down, i was not asking this meanly.havent been on in a while

She did say she was not buying right away either, so what is wrong with doing some research. I think it is responsible of her to get some information before making a decision. Anyway in my opinion it was extremely rude and my dear I am nothing but calm. I was only stating my opinion and you are welcome to take or leave it, however you wish.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top