Spay/Neuter ALL the time?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by LizzieCollie, Jul 26, 2006.

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  1. AnimalLoverCatRescuer

    AnimalLoverCatRescuer New Member

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    Oh Puerto Rico, I can imagine! What is the temp like? Is it super humid? It was decently nice today, but I consider 80-85 too hot to put up with :)
     
  2. LizzieCollie

    LizzieCollie Collie Crazy

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    Right now its rainy and crappy...lol its so humid because ofall the rain but most of the times its nice and hot, but humid at the same time so its not overwhelming.

    I lived in Rochester New York for most of my life and the heat was unbearable, it was hot and dry.

    If only I could open the windows, but here you'd better lock yourself up after dark or the gigantic cockaroaches will come eat you! Im terrified of them its gross to live in NY all your life and when you see cockaroaches theyre not even as big as your fingernail but come to puerto rico where a full grown roach is this big:

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    and they fly!!!!!! eeew im going to stop because im going to have nightmares ugh
     
  3. ihartgonzo

    ihartgonzo and Fozzie B!

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    I totally agree with this. EVERY one of the top Flyball dogs are speutered, as are 90% of the dogs I know in Flyball, Agility & Herding. They definitely do not lack drive!

    Similarly, my cousin is a k-9 officer, and all of the dogs he has handled have been speutered and drivey as heck! :)
     
  4. Red_ACD_for_me

    Red_ACD_for_me Ruled by a RED boy!

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    I aso know someone who has two male ACD's 1 neutered and 1 intact and both are in schutzund. There is no difference between the drive of the both of them. I hate when people say they can't speuter because of lack of drive especially people who do weight pull activities with there pits. We have enough pitbulls in shelters and that are being poorly bred all over the place so I think that leaving them intact just to pull weight is an excuse to breed them if they are a fantastic puller which I guess is okay :rolleyes: . I can see if you have a male and wait to neuter till 18 months to 2 years to allow proper growth, but saying that a dog has to be intact to proform a job is just not true IMO and lots of others :)
     
  5. PWCorgi

    PWCorgi Priscilla Winifred Corgi

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    ROFL! :p :D :p :D
     
  6. Mach1girl

    Mach1girl New Member

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    I haven't a ton of experience, however, I am learning as we speak. Dixie has been training for WP for months now, and the pups are starting. I have attended 2 aadr WP seminars which are taught by professionals, read all their literature and belong to their online group for continuing advice and mentor assistance.
    I do know that an APBT that is s/n, shows a great deal of it's lack of drive compared to an unaltered dog in the wp ring.
    You show AKC where maybe altering is allowed, the UKC DOES NOT allow altered dogs to show or compete in any sporting event.

    Realy, and I dont wanna sound snotty, but lets face it, you need drive to compete in obedience??? Agility??Your agility dog is running through hoops-so to speak.

    An apbt in WP depending on its size is pulling weight for a distance on either a sled or wheels in as short of time as possible.....that drive has got to be there for 1500lbs from a dead stop!
     
  7. Mach1girl

    Mach1girl New Member

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    And besides, the UKC doesnt allow it unless you just have a house pet...Isn't that what I said isnt that what I said in the beginning??

    "Unless you are showing or using for sport, why not??"

    I believe that is what I said.

    If the UKC doesnt allow an altered dog to be shown or used for sport, then WTF is the argument for??

    I simply stated a FACT, so et off the witch hunt and let it be!!!
     
  8. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    Wrong. Go to UKCDogs.com and read the rules of each event for yourself.

    Why are you slinging rocks at sports you don't compete in?

    And as for the drive to pull diminishing when you spay/neuter, what a load of horse manure. It's an old wive's tale that is not true in sled dogs and I highly doubt it's true in WP with bully breeds.
     
  9. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    Ditto.
     
  10. Mach1girl

    Mach1girl New Member

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    Ha! Never mind, clearly this is where the "experienced" verses the ones who just "have heard" clash......

    But you all go on with your reasons and justifications.

    If I want to fix my dogs and compete in an ADBA showw, then this is allowed, as for the rest, if I were to travel to Kalamazoo and want to compete, I couldn't, and the AADR that comes here for competition does not allow..........I couldnt show an altered dog.

    To each his own. But I am sorry, I am stickig to this due to what I have learned and followed, the drive is diminished enough that it effects WP.

    So like I said, no matter what reason I give or justification I give, you all are going to bash it anyway, simply because you dont like me. But I dont care, the OP doesnt sound as if she is into any kind of showing or work anyways, and I just answered her simple question.

    And I am knocking agility and obedience because I have tried it. I love it dont get me wrong, but it doesnt take half of what is needed for a stronger competition. And you know it doesnt.

    Im done, continue to bash if you will. This is why I havent been here in awhile, somepeople spend their days playing internet warrior due to lack of social lives, me, I got dogs to work with , property to buy, and kids to raise, a pool to go swim in, the sun to lay in, and a mall to shop.....you know, better things to do.


    So, back to your internet war games, have fun, and remember what you momma told you, if ya aint got anything nice to say...................

    Oh yeah, only some of you have enough respect for momma to have actually listened to her!!!Lol.
     
  11. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    Yes, it is. :rolleyes:

    Which dog are you using this as an excuse to keep intact?

    So because you don't like what you're hearing you decide to attempt to sling mud at us personally? We all have lives, and for many of us - those lives include actually competing with our dogs, doing rescue, and breeding responsibly.
     
  12. Mach1girl

    Mach1girl New Member

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    Did I hit a personal nerve summitview??Gee, Im sorry!

    Did you not hear me when I said I train my dogs??I am training and in the process of competing....as a matter of fact, Aug 5th and 6th will be a first for wp competition for Dixie and show for the boys.

    I am keeping all my dogs intact to show and work them,if they were housepets, Id s/n them as I have my other 3 dogs.

    Like I said, got better things to do now, so ba-bye.
     
  13. Ashlea

    Ashlea New Member

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    Mach - I am curious. I have a Border Collie, she is altered and she competes in hearding. She is up to 9 sheep. Now tell me, is she not a "real" working dog? In my opinion there is no more real working dog than a BC. She is the driviest dog I have EVER encountered in my 7 years of dog training. She has been altered since she was 6 months old. It has made no difference at all to her will to work. She drives me mad with her pestering to do things, at 8 years old I have to slow her down so she won't hurt herself.

    So I completely disagree that being altered decreases drive, I work with plenty of Manwork dogs who are altered and I have started feild work and all the dogs are altered in that class. I have never seen more drive then them!
     
  14. The only one who has gotten nasty and defensive here is you Mach1.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2006
  15. Fran27

    Fran27 New Member

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    I think nobody knows anything on the subject - frankly. You won't find two vets that agree about the effects on drive, growth etc.

    I didn't want to deal with cancer, dogs marking and trying to jump the fence, so I neutered them. I didn't see any difference in their behavior, and I'm quite comfortable with my decision.

    Bottom line, it's up to everyone to do what they feel is best - as long as they are responsible.
     
  16. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    you don't know much about obedience or agility, do you? why does that not surprise me? they require just as much drive as a weight-pull dog. and yes, i'm familiar with all three sports. and no, i don't think a dog needs her uterus to pull well.

    my spayed bitch is drivey as could be.
     
  17. Mach1girl

    Mach1girl New Member

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    Please, go join some forums and ask further questions regarding "working dogs" as far as apbt and WP. You will find what I say is true, and most everybody agrees. Where do you think I have learned?

    I am not saying my word is gospel, but I know what I have learned thus far, and everyone agrees that is totally involved in the sport.

    Ask any PROFESSIONAL WP trainer.really......ask them!!And I do not mean pulling in your back yard, I mean for competition. You CANNOT enter an altered dog in WP at the UKC. You cannot show an altered dog in the UKC.

    And I DO know about obedience and agility. My Dix has trained for both. Yes, I do agree any typical dog that has been altered shows an amount of drive-in your bak yard or at the beach simply because they can last longer then you can, but overall when it comes down to it, they lack compared to an unaltered dog.
    Stop assuming I know nothing because of my history. You haven't a clue what I know. You havent a clue what I do with my dogs, and assume I dont do anything.And that is wrong.If you only knew.............
    I think agility and obedience is great..I really do, Im not knocking it.

    Besides, this is not about me, you saw my statement to the OP, leave it alone!
     
  18. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

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    I know a number of Siberian and Malamute breeders that compete in WP and they do not agree. I am in the process of contacting APBT/AST folks I know and asking them as well.

    I think you're wrong. I have friends that show altered mixed breeds in UKC performance events. Show me on the UKC site where it says you cannot compete with an altered dog? I looked and couldn't find such a statement: http://ukcdogs.com/HomeDE.htm


    You're just plain wrong here. It's not true in sled dogs, it's not true in herding dogs, it's not true in obedience, agility, flyball, etc. It's not true in weight-pull with dogs I've known and I highly doubt it's true with just your breed.


    You certainly are showing us. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Red_ACD_for_me

    Red_ACD_for_me Ruled by a RED boy!

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    Personally, I have nothing against you and I like everyone on here. I haven't butted heads with anyone but I am assuming you have. I have been in the field of dogs long enough to know that a dog having its utereus or balls don't make it any better than a dog who is fixed and does not decrease drive in events. I do however feel like the majority of pit owners especially the ones who start all of these WP competitions just have a problem with S/N in general especially the men. They must have to be kept intact to breed right? Don't we have enough pits being euthanized everyday? So I just don't get WHY they have to be intact to pull weight when it is not a conformation show to win best of breed. One more question, don't you own 3 pups from your bitches litter? And you are keeping them all intact? Good luck to you, I wouldn't want all that responsibility with mothers, sons, daughters, being intact. Accidents do happen.
     
  20. dogstarsleddogs

    dogstarsleddogs The dog is never wrong!

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    I'd also say that altering does NOT affect drive. I think where that might have sprung from is altered males sometimes calm down after altering. (Like Dakota) Or how altering before they're fully grown affects bone structure. (Dont fully physically mature and "bulk out") Aurora was spayed at a pretty young age if I remember right (got her when she was 2), and shesh- that dog can go! She's actually quite neurotic about running to tell you the truth. You never want to walk by her with anything that remotely resembles a rope or harness! Ever see a dog jump over 4 feet wanting to run so bad? Making enough noise you have scream to be heard? Same with Cider. Dakota is altered, and he could pull over 500 pounds if I asked him too. Babylon is also altered, and the only thing affecting him is age. His mind wants to, but his body cant. But whatever, everyone's entitled to thier own opinion.
     
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