Spay/Abort Question....

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by sillysally, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    5,074
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 birds, and 1 horse
    Location:
    A hole in the bottom of the sea.
    My friend has a young female boxer (probably a year or a year and a half) that is pregnant. She escaped the house while in heat and apparently tied with two males, a chow/shepard mix and a pit bull.

    The vet my friend goes to told her that "it would not be a good idea" to do a spay/abort (she is not far enough along that you can really tell that she is pregnant yet). My friend really does not want, nor can she afford the pups--she can barely afford the spay. None of us (her family or close friends) have any idea how to whelp puppies--horses yes, puppies, not so much. This would be the bitch's first litter.

    I told her that she needs to get a second opinion about the spay/abort. Why would a vet not want to do one? Is there a certain point in the pregnancy where it is no longer an option?
     
  2. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Some vets use excuses to cover the fact that they won't do it for moral reasons. As Yodeldogs pointed out in another, similar thread, there is really no point in which it is no longer an option to spay/abort. Please seek a second opinion.
     
  3. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 1 cat
    Location:
    NC
    Home Page:
    I imagine the surgery is more risky/complicated with a pregnant bitch, same as with one in heat. That being said, the vet at our humane society will spay pregnant females, even those in the late stages of pregnancy and I haven't head of any complications resulting. No one likes to abort the pups, but it's the best thing to do when we already get 9000 dogs/yr. Might your local shelter offer s/n services? if they d, they'd be a great place to check into.
     
  4. FoxyWench

    FoxyWench Salty Sea Dog

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,308
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs at home, 2 dogs with the parents 6 peacock
    Location:
    Connecticut
    there are risks associated with the surgery (as with any)
    but an abort/spay is considerably Low risk compared to the risks of delivery, particulalry for a young bitch in inexperienced hands (no offence meant by that :) )

    in this case id say its most likley due to moral reasons on the part of the vet, and id say definatly talk to a different vet.
     
  5. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Talk to a different vet.

    We've done spay/abort up until just a few short days away from the est. delivery date. While there is always a risk as with any surgery, there is also a risk with a delivery, espeically for a young bitch. And God knows we don't need any more random mixes in this world.

    It's sad, but we have to do what we have to do.
     
  6. StillandSilent

    StillandSilent New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,550
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2
    A friend of mine just had a pit mix aborted when she was nearly to term. The dog made it through just fine, and only required a few extra days of painkillers. I would not hesitate to do a spay/abort in your situation.
     
  7. thehoundgirl

    thehoundgirl Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    If she isn't that far along, I would talk to a different vet to do this. I have mixed feelings on this matter but her being so young it could kill her. :( So have your friend find a different vet!
     
  8. sammgirl

    sammgirl ACoops favorite

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    IMHO- I would go ahead and abort. One of my mom's bitches several years ago was impregnated by a very determined neighbor dog, and my mom had the pups aborted.

    At the time I was young, and didn't understand why she would do that. But, she sat down with me and had a long chat about the over population of dogs and how if we had the litter, then it would just take away homes from the dogs in shelters.

    Just to illustrate her point, she took me to volunteer at the shelter for a weekend so that I could see what she was talking about.

    It certainly made a lasting impression on me.
     
  9. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    64,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've sadly reported before that I had a litter aborted . But for newbies will repeat . This was my breeding female , but it was her off year . A dog sitter let her out of her kennel when in heat and never told me . When I realized she was preggie I was devastated ! I had to be by her son or father , or a stray . I couldn't let these be part of " whoops " litters. It bothers me to this day >
     
  10. freedomwolf

    freedomwolf New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't understand and probably never will why ppl just throw away life. Yes i know there are many out there already, but that doesn't mean we have to kill them. Why not just have the litter and instead of killing them, let them be born but spay and nuter them to prevent them from getting pregnant if you are not looking for them to be? I know it is hard to afford them but maby if they are your good neighbor or friend you could try and help them a little untill the puppies are ready to be seperated from there mother? It seems to me that we as a country have gotten so used to throwing things away that it doesn't bother us anymore. I have a little girl that I got from my local SPCA. She was unwanted by everyone, her litter mates people that looked over her, ect. Except for one cat but that is not the point. Anyway, she was sooooooooooo skinny as a baby that you could see her ribs. I know some of you may be thinking why couldn't she have just been "spayed" or put down especially since she is a mixed breed. If that had happened, I would not know the little Miriacle that I know today. And it all started when a """freak""" snow storm hit Syracuse one Sunday and a few weeks latter meeting a new and precious little girl. I know she isn't a dog but i feel the story applies for all not just cats. What we may not want could be someone Else's Marical
     
  11. sammgirl

    sammgirl ACoops favorite

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    :spam:
     
  12. grab01

    grab01 I'm on a boat..

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    a small herd :p
    Location:
    the desert
    That early on wouldn't be much more complicated than a spay. There are far too many homeless dogs already, and if they're already having hard times financially, something like an emergency c-section would be difficult if it was needed. The vet probably had a moral reason they didn't want to do it, I'd tell her to talk to a different vet.
     
  13. Miakoda

    Miakoda New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    7,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Are you aware of the overpopulation issue? This issue means that there are more dogs needing homes than there are homes needing dogs. And heavens know that "pit bulls" and "pit bull mixes" are in a desparate state right now thanks to the extremely high numbers out there in shelters and what not.

    No one is jumping for joy at the idea of a spay/abort. I've personally had to do them and to be honest, they freaking suck. But I've also served as a euthanasia tech at an animal control back in the day and euthing those dogs all sucked as well. But what sucks about that is that those dogs were forced to live in concrete cells with little to no attention before they finally got released from the hell you call "life".

    Just because a dog is alive doesn't mean it's living. And forcing a dog into this world only to turn them over into the hands of the ignorant and irresponsible or over to a shelter is much much much more cruel than euthanizing those pups and sparing them from a life of misery.

    I wish this world was different. I wish the dogs belonging to bybs and peddlers would miraculously turn up sterile. I wish I didn't get 5+ emails a day about a 'pit bull' in need of immediate rescue and/or a home. But that's life. No one said it was fair and no one said it was always pretty. It is what it is. But we have been put into a position where we can make a positive impact even when that impact comes from sparing dogs a life not worth living. Again, just because a dog is breathing and eats on a daily basis doesn't mean it's living.

    It's time to join us back in reality.
     
  14. Romy

    Romy Taxiderpy

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Messages:
    10,234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    :hail:

    Not to mention, if the bitch in question is a smaller female, and the father/s unknown, allowing her to carry to term could very well be her death sentence.

    Someone posted here once about a chihuahua female who was accidentally mated to a chow. I don't remember if they ever came back to report on what happened to her. Everybody recommended aborting, because pups that big would definitely kill her.
     
  15. Upendi&Mina

    Upendi&Mina Mainstreme Elitist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Three dogs + one evil rabbit
    Location:
    Wonderland
    I can understand doing it in this situation as your friend is inexperienced and doesn't have the money and the fact that the bitch is young so yes I'd talk to a different vet. On an off note, one of my exfriends had her bitches litter aborted because it got pregnant by their neighbors dog who in her opinion was ugly. So she aborted the pups out of fear that they would be ugly puppies. That IMO is not a good reason.
     
  16. sillysally

    sillysally Obey the Toad.

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    Messages:
    5,074
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 birds, and 1 horse
    Location:
    A hole in the bottom of the sea.
    Who is going to pay for all those pups to be altered? She can barely afford her own dog to be altered. I have 2 dogs (one of which has a chronic medical problem), 2 cats, and an elderly horse. Which of my animal's needs should I not meet so that I can pay for puppies that my animals had nothing to do with?
     
  17. puppydog

    puppydog Tru evil has no pantyline

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,500
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Freedomwolf, these puppies are not alive. Best to end it now before they come into a world that does not have space for them.
     
  18. freedomwolf

    freedomwolf New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Are you aware of the overpopulation issue? This issue means that there are more dogs needing homes than there are homes needing dogs. And heavens know that "pit bulls" and "pit bull mixes" are in a desparate state right now thanks to the extremely high numbers out there in shelters and what not.

    No one is jumping for joy at the idea of a spay/abort. I've personally had to do them and to be honest, they freaking suck. But I've also served as a euthanasia tech at an animal control back in the day and euthing those dogs all sucked as well. But what sucks about that is that those dogs were forced to live in concrete cells with little to no attention before they finally got released from the hell you call "life".

    Just because a dog is alive doesn't mean it's living. And forcing a dog into this world only to turn them over into the hands of the ignorant and irresponsible or over to a shelter is much much much more cruel than euthanizing those pups and sparing them from a life of misery.

    I wish this world was different. I wish the dogs belonging to bybs and peddlers would miraculously turn up sterile. I wish I didn't get 5+ emails a day about a 'pit bull' in need of immediate rescue and/or a home. But that's life. No one said it was fair and no one said it was always pretty. It is what it is. But we have been put into a position where we can make a positive impact even when that impact comes from sparing dogs a life not worth living. Again, just because a dog is breathing and eats on a daily basis doesn't mean it's living.


    Yes, I am well aware of the population issue, animal facts stick well with me don't ask just do. All I can say is that it is a gift. I know all to well about hell and life. Believe me it is all that i have been through in my life (your reality zing doesn't help any). Who is to say that they would fall into the wrong hands? Look at all the ppl here on this forum, are they ignorant and irrisponsible? What about a dog that is sick? they aren't able to live and be happy even if it is still temporary some times perminate. How is that cruel to hand them over to a shelter where they can feel a bit a love and have at least a little bit of hope from people who do care. That is why they created the shelter(s) in the first place? If a child isn't living, does that mean we kill them? Countries of ppl aren't living, should we kill them? And Yes they ARE life before they are born. Why else does the monther feel them kick and move like BABIES DO when they are inside the mother? What happens when you are GIVING BIRTH? Does a fairy God Mother come along and sprinkel so magical fairy dust and say "POOF! HERE YOU GO! HERE IS YOUR LITTLE BABY." AND,what are you giving birth too? For animals, just because we dont feel them kick inside an animal mother doesnt mean they are real. As for the puppy mills, I know there are puppy mills out there, I know they abuse dogs and puppies horrifiyingly so. And as for helping them in the bill costs for spay/nutering, why not help them out a bit? If we all help eachother, this world would be a better place. Mabye you could rais a fund where your little area could pitch in and help her, a donation thing. I know there are finacial thigs we need to worrie about for our selves, but we could save a few coins or dollars that we wouldn't use to help them like a little collection jar. And how is one supposed to gain experience if we don't experience it our selves. Life is the teacher. As for the abuse, that is why i wish to be an animal protector of some kind. I hope to one day fight for some kind of law that makes sure the animals are spayed nutered more than what is out there now. I hope to one day have all but one puppy/kitty (the possibilty of the exception of the breed being verry uncommon to really rare, they are loved too and i don't want to see them go extinct) male or feamale spayed/nutered of every litter in the US. I hope to one day see that there are counciling clinics for ppl and the ways to treat animals like they have for ppl interacting with society. I hope that one day we all can live in peace with our brothers and sisters of the animal kingdom. Mabye if we all fight for it and not just say things like "yea good idea but it is not going to work" etc and fight and try to make it work than we can and will see the changes and happyness that we wish to see for our fellow animal kind.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2009
  19. tessa_s212

    tessa_s212 Guest

    *gives freedomwolf all her awful memories, tears, and feelings of failure for every life lost in her years working at animal shelter*

    I've worked in shelters. I've sentenced dogs to death due to severe behavioral problems that couldn't be cured while in the shelter, and I've witnesses perfectly adoptable dogs euthanized in handfuls. And unfortunately, I worked in quite a corrupt shelter. Yes, .. corrupt. There are many many many corrupt shelters out there. Do NOT ever expect a shelter to be a night in shining armor that has only the best interest of the animals in mind. Unfortunately, it is not always the case. And this particular shelter I worked at DID refuse to spay/abort female dogs and cats. Want to know what happened with those kittens and puppies? Kittens would get sick, suffer, and die in cages over night because there were too many pregnant cats and kittens and they weren't getting proper treatment. (Ever heard of how upper respiratory infections run rampant through shelters?) Puppies had a better deal it seems, but because they were raised in kennels in a shelter, they were barky, they walked all over in their poo, they had no manners, and only minimal human interaction. Some may be adopted, but they were often returned. Those returned may be adopted out again, but again, would likely return. And then we'd have a 5 month old puppy that was **** near impossible to place. They suffered the miserable life of a kennel and concrete. They lacked the proper care and socialization they should have been given from birth in a family environment. Also, all those older dogs that were in the shelter before hte puppies were born were ignored.. everyone wanted a puppy. So to make room for those puppies, more dogs were euthanized.

    Oh gee... its good to cuddle and love puppies. Ignore the dogs that are already alive merely existing in kennels in shelters....

    Life is not that simple. I wish it were. But it isn't. Doing a spay/abort is in the *best interest* of the puppies AND the mother, as well as other dogs that are already homeless.
     
  20. AGonzalez

    AGonzalez Not a lurker

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    :hail: This right here. I am a very pro-life person. I do not believe in abortions to be honest. But when it comes to the fact that these puppies will more than likely have a crappy quality of "life" I have to sit back and think that it's probably the best alternative.
     

Share This Page