Spaniel Fever? or Spaniel Madness??

Discussion in 'The Dog Breeds' started by SummerRiot, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. SummerRiot

    SummerRiot Dog Show Addict

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    we have three puppies in the house.. and some fish
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I was chatting away to one of the girls that I work with while i was grooming a dog and she mentioned getting a show GSD.. i told hr to check out the Cveh lines first then.. anyways..

    she mentioned that she used to have a Springer Spaniel and she wouldn't mind another one..

    she had said that when it got older it suffered from "Spaniel Madness" or something like that that caused him to go completley loopy for a few moments.. then regain a sense of self and go on his merry way.

    Apparently there ae meds that can control this.. but I was wondering what exactly this is??
     
  2. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    NC
  3. SummerRiot

    SummerRiot Dog Show Addict

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    we have three puppies in the house.. and some fish
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Ahh thanks..

    Its interesting. I had never heard of this before.

    Has anyone gone through it with their dog before?
     
  4. Bristol_Love

    Bristol_Love SpringerSpaniel&ChowChow

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2;a puppy named bristol and a western painted turt
    Location:
    Braintree Massachusetts
    i have an english springer spaniel puppy. i hope she never gets it!

    well my mom was painting a guys house and he used to have a springer. he loves him soo much and then one day it was showing its teeth and growling and trying to bite. he had to put him down. :( the poor guy was crying when he told my mom
     
  5. Kase

    Kase New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    15,703
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog, 2 cats and a horse on loan
    Location:
    Britain
    A dog trainer from a dog sanctuary down south came up and gave us a lot of information, I'll just type out the section on Rage syndrome.

    'This conditon is known as 'Rage syndrome'. Rage syndrome has never been proved to exist as a heritable 'syndrome' in cockers or any other breed, neither in the USA, nor in the UK.

    Despite several scientific investgations into possible links with epilepsy at Liverpool vet school, investigations at Camebridge vet school by veterinary ethologists, several surveys by breed clubs and private investigations by concernec individuals 'in the breed'. No abnormalities have ever been identified in any behavioural, genetic or post mortem studies.

    Yet the whole concept of rage syndrome has become repeated so often by so many that it is now believed to be gospel in much of the behaviour/veterinary world.

    The only end result is that some colours, and especially the red, of a really super breed of dog have been maligned and tarred with a reputation and just isnt justified according to any scientific evidence. The vast majority of behaviour problems, even dramatic ones, are not clinical diseases and the tendency to view them as such should be resisted.

    Modern day pet cockers have the simple misfortune to descend from a highly inteliigent working breed with a high demand for work, and stimulation that simply isnt available in most pet owner homes.

    There is often simply not enough opportunity for the dog to solve problems in such homes: the type of problems that go with quick thinking and doing the job Cockers were bred to do in particular...which is to hunt game, flush it out and then retrieve it.

    Loved to death and given all the best food and treats and fuss in the world, they simply don't get to do what they are designed to, and the types of games they may get to play are neither good nor frequent enough models of their working needs to satisfy them.

    As a result Cockers can suffer from immense frustration in such home environments, but do restrain themselves admirably until some minor event proves to be too much and then they fly off the handle.

    Being tough gun dogs underneath those flopy ears, they attack well and so like any other provoked dog in a highly arroused state can be dangerous when their temper does finally break.

    COAPE believe that far from being reactive, dysfunctional psychopaths, that these dogs are often immensely self restrained in such emotionally limiting circumstances. Cockers have the misfortune to look cute and so may be pampered, and are often kept as pets for older people who may not stimulate them or exercise them as much. But such owners may spend a lot of time with them and so they are perhaps even more susceotable to the consequences of any serious sudden loss of temper. This is, of course, often made all the more serious because of the age of such owners.

    The real point that totally undermines a 'diagnosis' of rage syndrome as a pathological disorder is surely that attacks cited in Cockers are always aimed at someone, and dont just happen spontaniuosly. No one ever came home to find their dog mid way through savaging the curtains or cat. It is people who are the source of the final straw in the frustration of the dog. Because of this quick tempered Cockers are subsequently diagnosed as having dominance aggression.

    The sad truth of the matter is that this poor breed are at the top of the need for a hedonistic budget evaluation chart. Until this becomes common place more and more cockers will be punished, put into shelters simply because they are lashing out at a frustrating life style.'
     
  6. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    64,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To me if your dog suddenly has a " Rage " look into a brain problem . Yes there are " testy " dogs ..... but there is a difference . My beloved Golden IB turned to bite me when I was helping her into the 4X4 for one of our vetting appts.... that's when I knew it had to be a brain growth .
     
  7. Brattina88

    Brattina88 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    12,953
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    OH
    Kase, I'm not sure where you got your information, but the vets told me Rage syndrome is a Springer thing, not a Cocker thing.
    And that whole Red color in Cockers thing is seperate, but it really is a myth... according to all my sources, anyway

    The big problem with cockers is bad breeders and stupid owners. Who ignore the warning signs, and then say their dogs had a "fit" when the dog shows true aggression...

    I agree with Grammy. When this happens, truly, something is really very wrong
     
  8. otch1

    otch1 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    dogs, cats, horses, llama, goats and parrot
    Location:
    washington
    This term is used in a handful of breeds, that it's "seemingly" more prevalent in. ( Springers', Boxers, ect) I have dealt with it this behavior in Springers. Please let your friend know the importance of researching a line before considering a purchase. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, where this issue's concerned.
     
  9. Kase

    Kase New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    15,703
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog, 2 cats and a horse on loan
    Location:
    Britain

    Oh right I think it can be both, I always heard people say in about English cockers over here not American as there aren't that many compared to English anyway.

    I do love English cockers though expecially from working lines!
     
  10. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    NC
    Everything I have ever read said Springers and Cocker's........
     
  11. fillyone

    fillyone But please, call me Barb

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    If she wants to show in conformation Czech is most likely not the way to go. Though the working lines are my favorite lines of GSDs, they're not rewarded highly in the show ring.
     
  12. Groch

    Groch Gadget Hound

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Denver Colorado
    Kase, fascinating post.

    If this theory is correct then the premise would effect, to varying degrees, not only Cockers but any sporting or working breed that no longer fulfills their original function.

    This puts the entire purebred philosophy at risk....why maintain traditional working breed lines (except in very limited numbers for historical purposes). This make designer dog breeders into heros for trying to make traditional breed lines compatible with modern society.

    On the other hand, Cockers were the #1 most popular breed during the early 60's. Very few were used in hunting. I grew up with a cocker and the closest he came to fulfilling his breed heritage was chasing the occasional squirrel. I noticed no rage but lots of stubby wagging tails.

    I think dementia is probably related to breeding but not to the broad degree you suggest. The practice of maintaining breeds through a very limited line of champion dogs is bound to result in unintended negative consequences.
     
  13. SummerRiot

    SummerRiot Dog Show Addict

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,056
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    we have three puppies in the house.. and some fish
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    fillyone - Ohh I know, she isn't a "serious show person" though.. She jsut wants to dabble in it, she mostly wants a good pet..

    I'm personally not a fan of the American lines GSD because they have bred them with SUCH an incline to their backs..
    The Czechs are my fav structurally and I have seen a few at the shows, although they dont place as high as the American lines, they also dont look deformed and seem to do better in the Ob ring here.
     
  14. fillyone

    fillyone But please, call me Barb

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    SummerRiot - You've probably figured out by now that I panic when I see someone suggesting a DDR or Czech, or any working line for that matter GSD.
    It's crazy how many sable GSDs (mostly working lines) are now at shelters and rescues because folks just aren't ready for the needs of such a drivey dog.
    :)
    Can't help but try to protect this breed I love so much!!!
     
  15. Boemy

    Boemy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,481
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My boss has had at least one dog who had to be PTS because of rage syndrome. She has English Springer Spaniels. Probably because she keeps buying them from the back of trucks. Yeah, that's the way to find a quality breeder . . . *slaps forehead* A different one of her dogs had to be PTS because its nose started disintegrating. I keep thinking to myself, "Why do you keep buying from people like that?"

    Anyway, I'm sure her English Springer did react that way because of a medical problem and/or poor breeding, not abuse or anything . . . They treat their dogs very well.
     
  16. Rosefern

    Rosefern New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    3
    Location:
    Midwest
    Some schools of thought state that rage is a disease, one that is decided by lineage, and one that cannot be prevented, and (usually) cannot be be controlled.

    Others say that rage is a tempermental trait, one that is somewhat decided by lineage, but can be controlled with proper socialization and raising.

    The one thing, however, that they both agree upon is that it is a horrible thing for owners to watch their dog go through.

    Now, I'm not an expert on rage, so, instead, I'll direct you to some people who are:

    http://www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk/index.htm
    (Deals with all kinds of rage, not exclusively cockers)

    http://www.essfta.org/Health_Research/aggression.htm
    (Good account of a study done on English Springer Spaniels)

    Good luck!

    Cheers,

    Rosefern

    PS: One thing that I must tell you: Rage affects such a small percentage of the dog population. It shouldn't be a deciding factor whether to get a certain breed or not. Any dog can have temperament or medical problems. No breed is perfect. They all have non-desireable temperament traits. They all are prone to different medical diseases. It's just something you have to be willing to deal with.
     

Share This Page