Some Pit Education

[Delisay]

Sigh. Apparently dog fighting is a gentlemans sport...feel free to picture the word 'gentleman' dripping with sarcasm.

Yes, in the same manner as "gentleman's club" - the last place on earth to find an actual gentleman ... just like at the dog fight. It's an extreme misappropriation of the term in an embarrassing effort to camouflage an opposite reality. Then add the word "sport" to further distract, because it involves no actual movement of the human body.

Gentleman's sports, hmm... Polo, Golf, old English Cricket... Try those!

D.

 

[Boemy]

There's a difference between understanding a breed's history versus approving of its original purpose and an even bigger difference between USING IT for its original purpose. Do you think chow owners should eat their dogs?

 

[molena]

nobody is here to defend dogfighting. few people defend it on game-dog, although it does happen (usually by people in other countries where it is legal - should they be kicked off the board?)

but still you should get your facts straight. although it seems to be established that most of you do not have any interest in hearing anything that falls outside your comfort zone, the historic bloodsport of dogfighting did indeed involve human movement - handling a dog was very hands-on and active and required knowledge and skill. the point in calling dogfighting a gentleman's sport was only to insist that there was a code of ethics and strict rules which governed it... whether you believe it and like it or not.

i also take issue with D's anglocentric, europhile references to "gentlemen's sports" (cricket, etc.) what would you say about hunting? that "sport" is still protected by rich white folks, and thus it remains legal.

 

[2nd2none]

After reading over this entire thread, it is my opinion that the dog in the first pic looks in great condition. She's an excellent example of a dog that is well cared for by her owner. The chain/set up is also an example/indication of an owner that is not only aware of his dog's strength, but its choice to be used, both demonstrates and denotes, to me, proper APBT ownership. As an owner of 7 other APBT's, I believe Gamedogs said, it is IMPERRATIVE to keep the dogs seperated from one another. Owners of APBT's are aware of this breeds propensity for the possibility of dog fighting and dog on dog aggression. Owners should always be prepared in the event any aggression issues arise. They MUST be prepared. This chain and set up shows owner responsiblity, in my opinion.

I also applaud this forum for being so open minded and inquisitive in regards to the APBT. We all read the stories. We all hear the headlines...This thread has remained civil and level headed. Very refreshing.

I know dog fighting, post 1976, is a felony, in most, if not all the states right now, so, I read with interest the remarks regarding the threads contained in the Game-Dogs forums. IMO, that forum doesn't either sound like it promotes or even encourages dog fighting. If anything, and I quote,... "Pit Bull Community is dedicated to the preservation of the pit bull in its original form as a game-bred dog and in its modern incarnations as a loving companion pet and top competitor in weight pull competitions and conformation shows. We are opposed to all forms of animal cruelty, and do not promote any illegal activities, but we celebrate the history of the pit bull and value its qualities of courage, strength and tenacity as the essence of the breed. We are therefore against all forms of breed-specific legislation, and work to protect the constitutional rights of pit bull owners".
I imagine if people are having their own "private" conversations", then that's certainly their business, and mods and administrators cannot possibly monitor all that goes on behind, or under the scenes. What they can do, however, is relay to people/their members, the seriousness and the cause/effect of their actions, and to reiterate to those that frequent that board that any "talk" of dog fighting is not only against the law and the rules of that forum, but can have some serious consequences, as well... and discourage it.

As far as the dog in the other pic, it's amazing, the effects of lighting and repositioning, and how they can affect the look of a picture. The dogs look to be in good shape. Agreed, too many animals today suffer form overweight/health related problems. I see this on a daily basis...

Overall, a very interesting thread, with lots of good information regarding the very misunderstood American Pit Bull Terrier, once "America's Beloved Hero"...

 

[tommyt]

I find it funny that so many people criticize Gamedogs for lying or not telling the whole truth concerning Lil Bit and her size. That dog is an absolute house dog. Gamedogs did not leave anything out or skew the truth in any way. Genetics is the reason she looks like that. What is so hard to believe? There are humans the same way. I eat all day, every day. However, I don't have an ounce of fat on me. I don't work out and you can see muscle striations all over me. Genetics makes me this way. The same thing goes for that dog.
Also, a few visible ribs does not mean that the dog is starved. NO muscle loss has occurred. Once a dog is starving, their bodies will break down muscle for food. That is obviously not the case in that picture.

As mentioned earlier, people are used to seeing overweight dogs and they feel that it is healthy. Therefore, they think that a dog such as Gamedog's are starved.
2 days prior to my dog's last show I took him to the vet. Every one of the vets loved him and had good things to say about his condition. However, I was getting criticized by various neighbors throughout the week for being "too skinny". Nevertheless, the dog took 1st on one day and 2nd on the other. There is a big difference between working a dog to its full potential and being starved and a trained eye can see the difference easily.

 

[RockstarKennelz]

There's a difference between understanding a breed's history versus approving of its original purpose and an even bigger difference between USING IT for its original purpose. Do you think chow owners should eat their dogs?

Depends. Who are any of us to judge? Many societies find it appalling to slaughter cattle, goats, pigs, chickens, or whatever else by the millions. Some societies deem human cannibalism perfectly acceptable. Individual values and ethics are instilled predominately by the society the individual happens to be a part of. Us cocky Americans have been indoctrined to believe that we are the "good guys," and somehow the rest of the world should conform to our moral standards. If you don't see things our way, we just might bomb your third-world ass. We're all entitled to believe what we so choose, but none of us are in any position to judge another for his/her beliefs.
We are all far from perfect (well, except maybe for my wife)

Anyway, is this thread a moral debate on dogfighting, or is it a discussion about conditioned dogs vs unhealthy dogs? If the direction keeps shifting like it is, pretty soon I'm gonna go off on a tangent about the Seahawks losing today

 

[silverpawz]

few people defend it on game-dog, although it does happen (usually by people in other countries where it is legal - should they be kicked off the board?)

Call me crazy, but yes. If someone is advocating illegal activites then they should not be allowed on the board. I guess we have different standards for what an online community should be.

Yes, dog fighting is part of the breed history and if you want to discuss that history knock yourself out. Perfectly fine. But when it's very obvious that the discussion is based on activities in this time....not okay.

The chain/set up is also an example/indication of an owner that is not only aware of his dog's strength, but its choice to be used, both demonstrates and denotes, to me, proper APBT ownership. As an owner of 7 other APBT's, I believe Gamedogs said, it is IMPERRATIVE to keep the dogs seperated from one another. Owners of APBT's are aware of this breeds propensity for the possibility of dog fighting and dog on dog aggression. Owners should always be prepared in the event any aggression issues arise. They MUST be prepared. This chain and set up shows owner responsiblity, in my opinion.

So the only way to be 'responsible' in owning a pit is to keep him chained? Since when? If you absolutly cannot have your dogs in the house because they'll rip eachother apart, then build some good size kennels.
Of course...that would cost more money than just buying a chain....

 

[RD]

Here's another pic of the male in the first picture:

I'm not a Pit Bull person, but please tell me . . . How does this dog fit the standard? I see now that he is not pitifully thin, but structurally he is not balanced, IMO. I would be afraid to let a dog built like this do something like weight-pull. Perhaps with the massive head and undersized body, he'd be a better fighting dog (?? I know nothing about the "sport", so correct me if I'm wrong) but he doesn't look sound to me.

The other dogs shown in this thread do appear to be in good shape. I understand that camera angle and lighting can have a lot to do with how the dog appears. However, I think the comments about that female being just a pet fed high quality food is *difficult to believe*. My pets are fed high quality food. I know pet Pit Bulls that are fed high quality food. The only Pits that I know of with that kind of muscle on them are the dogs that are extensively exercised in order to build muscle. Treadmilling, weight pulling, etc. NO WAY can a couch potato build up that kind of muscle, and I don't care how genetically perfect they are. A kid from a long line of bodybuilders that doesn't work out will never be in bodybuilder shape. Not even close.

I entered this thread with an open mind but I am disgusted that those of you who claim to love these dogs are in agreement with letting them rip each other apart for entertainment. I have learned very little from your posts, all I've gotten out of them was the impression that you are not being entirely honest with us.

I would rather listen to someone who can state their opinions and beliefs honestly, take the heat from the people who disagree rather than ridiculing them, and still attempt to educate.

 

[pit4life]

1. i dont think u should be useing pics of peoples dogs. That is a game bred dog, her name is Lil Bit and she has never been worked. She is naturally like that.

2. The dog on the other topic is not skinny. He is a game fighting dog, get over it, GR CH MachoBuck here are other pics of how "skinny" he is-

All of u dont seem to know what a REAL APBT is...opcorn:

 

[silverpawz]

He is a game fighting dog, get over it, GR CH MachoBuck here are other pics of how "skinny" he is-

Good to know he's a fighting dog. Thanks for confirming for us.

 

[tommyt]

I'm not a Pit Bull person, but please tell me . . . How does this dog fit the standard? I see now that he is not pitifully thin, but structurally he is not balanced, IMO. I would be afraid to let a dog built like this do something like weight-pull.

The other dogs shown in this thread do appear to be in good shape. I understand that camera angle and lighting can have a lot to do with how the dog appears. However, I think the comments about that female being just a pet fed high quality food is complete and utter bullshit. My pets are fed high quality food. I know pet Pit Bulls that are fed high quality food. The only Pits that I know of with that kind of muscle on them are the dogs that are extensively exercised in order to build muscle. Treadmilling, weight pulling, etc. NO WAY can a couch potato build up that kind of muscle, and I don't care how genetically perfect they are. A kid from a long line of bodybuilders that doesn't work out will never be in bodybuilder shape. Not even close.

I entered this thread with an open mind but I am disgusted that those of you who claim to love these dogs are in agreement with letting them rip each other apart for entertainment. I have learned very little from your posts, all I've gotten out of them was the impression that you are not being entirely honest with us.

I would rather listen to someone who can state their opinions and beliefs honestly, take the heat from the people who disagree, and still attempt to educate.

I know for a fact that Lil Bit is not worked. It is not utter bs. Just because you don't believe it, it does not make it true. The reason why your housedogs don't look like Lil Bit is because they are bred completely different. Lil Bit is an extremely well bred dog bred from generations of heavily worked hunting dogs. Why would he lie about it?

You have to remember, these are dogs. Not humans. A dog's muscles does not rebuild like a human's. A human can work out hard and his/her muscles will come back larger and stronger. However, with a dog, that won't happen. A dog's size comes from genetics. A dog that weightpulls for 8 months every day will not gain much muscle size. I doubt that it will even be noticeable.

 

[pit4life]

Good to know he's a fighting dog. Thanks for confirming for us.

He is at conditioned weight for a fight.

Just because i live with fat dogs.

I only came on this forum to inform u not to us Lil Bit or MachoBucks pictures.

 

[tommyt]

Pit4Life

That picture of Lil Bit was posted by the owner!

 

[pit4life]

Ok, good to know thanx Tommyt!!

 

[Delisay]

...it does happen (usually by people in other countries where it is legal...).

"Other" than where???

i also take issue with D's anglocentric, europhile references to "gentlemen's sports" (cricket, etc.) what would you say about hunting? that "sport" is still protected by rich white folks, and thus it remains legal..

Anglocentric europhile??! That was entirely your psychological creation!!...and surpisingly hypocritical given the 'Amerocentrism' of your prior sentence. (Seems you have a predjudice against rich white folk too, despite using the term 'gentleman' which originated from them.)

But fine, add Sepak Takraw to the list if that helps you, or whatever else. Still no-one gets bloodied in it. Hunting any animal that one isn't going to eat, or isn't dangerous vermin, is uncivilised in my view, so it depends where the fox hunting is being done.

D.

 

[Renee750il]

Call me crazy, but yes. If someone is advocating illegal activites then they should not be allowed on the board. I guess we have different standards for what an online community should be.

Yes, dog fighting is part of the breed history and if you want to discuss that history knock yourself out. Perfectly fine. But when it's very obvious that the discussion is based on activities in this time....not okay.

Stepping aside from my abhorrence of any sort of animal fighting, be it dog fighting, cock fighting, bear baiting, etc. it must be remembered that the internet - and many forums - are international communities and even though an activity is illegal and considered unethical in one part of the world, there are other societies with differing laws and views. We may not like it. We may not agree. But that's the way it is. We can make rules within our own forum communities and enforce them here for our own reasons, but to simply say something cannot be mentioned because it is illegal doesn't wash.

 

[molena]

Call me crazy, but yes. If someone is advocating illegal activites then they should not be allowed on the board. I guess we have different standards for what an online community should be.

Yes, dog fighting is part of the breed history and if you want to discuss that history knock yourself out. Perfectly fine. But when it's very obvious that the discussion is based on activities in this time....not okay.



So the only way to be 'responsible' in owning a pit is to keep him chained? Since when? If you absolutly cannot have your dogs in the house because they'll rip eachother apart, then build some good size kennels.
Of course...that would cost more money than just buying a chain....

my point was that people who defend dogfighting online are often not doing anything illegal IN THEIR COUNTRIES. they could be banned immediately for being so arrogant and backwards as to come from somewhere else, or we could attempt to communicate with people about their lives and values, while asking people to please respect the rules of the board (which is exactly what Marty did.)


many people with pit bulls believe chains are far better containment mechanisms than kennels. this is discussed constantly in the ADBA club and it isn't about money (another classist comment!) dogs on proper tie-outs usually have more square footage than in kennels, and they tend to use the space more efficiently. of course, the media will have everyone believing that crates are perfectly humane and chains are cruel - but i know plenty of people whose dogs are crated upwards of 10 hours during the day, and then again sometimes at night, so their owners can keep up their power jobs, and then post online about how horrible chains are... completely brainwashed and hypocritical.


and yes, Delisay, I was speaking to this group as if we are in the US and taking for granted our Western cultural values and laws. this was before I read Renee's and Rockstar's fine posts.

 

[RD]

I know for a fact that Lil Bit is not worked. It is not utter bullshit. Just because you don't believe it, it does not make it true. The reason why your housedogs don't look like Lil Bit is because they are bred completely different. Lil Bit is an extremely well bred dog bred from generations of heavily worked hunting dogs. Why would he lie about it?

You have to remember, these are dogs. Not humans. A dog's muscles does not rebuild like a human's. A human can work out hard and his/her muscles will come back larger and stronger. However, with a dog, that won't happen. A dog's size comes from genetics. A dog that weightpulls for 8 months every day will not gain much muscle size. I doubt that it will even be noticeable.

1.) My housedogs do not look like her because they aren't Pit Bulls.
2.) Perhaps then, this is a case of the owner using lighting and camera angle to make her look like she's more muscular than she really is.
3.) Human OR dog, if muscles are not used, they will not develop to that extent. That bitch did not get that physique from walking around the house and sitting on the sofa.

 

[Dani]

Dogmen? A gentlemen's sport? The whole don't-ask-don't-tell mentality? We've been reading Richard Stratton, haven't we? Lol.

 

[blue]

I know for a fact that Lil Bit is not worked. It is not utter bullshit.

To this point you and other new members where doing a great job making up for Gamedogs lack of tact and info.

I like to swear and toss profanities around with the best of them, just not here.