So disappointed...

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by UniquityBelgians, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. UniquityBelgians

    UniquityBelgians New Member

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    Here is when breeding just plain sucks. Well, Visa came into standing heat on Monday night, so I took her to the stud on Tues. He's overweight, so he just can't get the job done. Too much belly fat is completely preventing his penis from even getting close to her. I wasn't expecting this, so didn't have the proper tools for AI. Did a mock AI, best as I could.. Doubt it took. I went out and brought the proper supplies, and will have to try again tomorrow. Sigh. Luckily when we progesterone tested her last year, she was ready to naturally breed 5 days before ovulation. If she's the same, then she should ovulate on Saturday. So, we have two more AI's in between now and Sat, and I will keep AI'ing every second day until she's no longer standing.

    I am VERY disappointed. Visa has fertility issues because of a puppyhood illness, and I'm lucky if she concieves from a natural breeding, let alone an AI. I have such a great waiting list.. One female is supposed to go to Europe, so I'm atleast hoping for a female. :(

    Wish us luck. We definatly need it.

    Jordan
     
  2. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Crapy Crapy Crapy. Do you have a back up stud for nest season worse care senario?
     
  3. Kat09Tails

    Kat09Tails *Now with Snark*

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    Crapity crap crap. Happily fresh AI is usually just as successful as natural cover if done right. Just remember to elevate that hind end for as long as she'll put up with it.

    As a thought you can help things along by elevating her which may change his angles of approach and might get his flab out of the way LOL. You can also help get a good connection with a spot of lube on her lady bits.
     
  4. Spiritwind

    Spiritwind New Member

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    Sorry to hear about issues with the stud...

    But as was already said, fresh AI's, usually have just as good end results as a natural breeding...

    I've never had a bitch miss I've done AI's on myself... most recent litter was a litter of 8 smoothies, a result of 3 AI breedings...

    The only time I've had girls miss is when I sent them to outside studs and the stud owner refuses to listen to me, about when to breed them -- my girls breed late, most people think its TO late to just start breeding.... but not for my girls...

    Good luck! Hope everything works out for you!!
     
  5. puppydog

    puppydog Tru evil has no pantyline

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    I may be off base here, but I would NEVER allow an overweight stud to cover my bitch. Surely that shows irresponsibility on the stud owners behalf. I would consider the studs owner an irresponsible breeder.
     
  6. Kat09Tails

    Kat09Tails *Now with Snark*

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    Based on what? This conclusion works if you think that all dogs maintain prime condition their entire life and that you'd have easy access for a variety of vetted studs. Reality rarely works that way.

    First off we have no idea how old this stud is, second with how some dogs are shaped a little flab especially over the ribcage can make a big difference, in some breeds there are some awkward size differences between the boys and the girls that can make things difficult to put it mildly even under the best circumstances. Finally some dogs especially if they're seldom used/aged/moderate drive on the matter aren't great about figuring this out on their own which again can make things annoyingly difficult.

    If the dog is the right dog to use genewise, typewise, recordwise, owner wise, proximity wise, and health cert wise being a little tubby isn't a big deal IMO for the studdog so long as you're able to go to plan B which is Fresh AI.
     
  7. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    An overweight Belgian? I had no idea there was such a thing. ;)

    Good luck! Hope the AI works out and you get a wonderful and uneventful litter. :D
     
  8. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    I kind of was wondering the same thing, but didn't want to bring it up because it wasn't that big a deal, but, yeah...

    Though, I know literally nothing in this area of breeding, so, yeah. :p
     
  9. puppydog

    puppydog Tru evil has no pantyline

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    Well, it is a Belgian for one. Shouldn't they be HIGH drive? I know that an overweight Pap would freak me out totally, knowing how mine are like crackheads on speed. I couldn't get mine fat if I tried.

    I know that it does not affect the dogs genetics, but it would worry me in general. I would be put off by the studs owners for letting their dog become obese, I would be put off by the stud for not being energetic enough to burn off that fat (if he is not confined that is) and if he is confined I would run in the opposite direction before allowing my kennel to be linked with that.

    As I said, I may be totally wrong, but those are just my feelings. I know that I am driving 12000 kms for Rileys second litter to get to my chosen stud because I will not touch the studs in Cape Town because their kennel has over 160 dogs of different breeds in it. To me, that is irresponsible and I do not want my name linked to that.
     
  10. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    I was going to just stay out but a belgian of any type should not be that out of condition that he can't do "that". If he is that out of shape, he is no longer a "stud" but retired with some health condition
     
  11. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Nyx will get fat quickly if she misses a couple days of insane running/zooming. Our normal training just doesn't burn off enough weight for her.

    An obese dog is not the same as an overweight dog, and the OP stated that he's overweight. And overweight Belgian is uncommon, but not impossible and doesn't necessarily mean there's anything going on that should make him not be breeding quality.

    Without seeing the dogs and without knowing why he's overweight, I gotta agree with Kat.
     
  12. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    You should meet Beau... he goes constantly like a crackhead on speed. In fact, he's constantly moving and... unfortunately constantly eating. Wouldn't be a big deal except my dad free feeds. :rolleyes: As a result, he's gotten a little tubby. FAR from obese but he's still imo overweight. Mia also seems to gain weight just by looking at food although she is by far the highest energy papillon I have ever met. She has to be on a very strict feeding schedule to keep her weight down. She's been on a bit of a diet lately but is just now getting back to my ideal for her. Her mother is the same way- she gets fat very easy. Her father is more like Nard where you're struggling to put weight on him. Nard is 2 1/2 and still boney with little tone to him and his hip bones stick out no matter what we do.

    So for me... I agree with CP and Kat. It would depend a lot on the individual dog and why he was overweight.
     
  13. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    It's a Belgian Shepherd, not a Malinois. They aren't anywhere near as high drive for the most part.

    I'd be concerned, but things happen. My mom has a lovely male who is not in the best physical condition (a little pudgy) because she lives in an apartment.
     
  14. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Thanks for the more in-depth explanation! :)
     
  15. colliewog

    colliewog Collies&Terriers, Oh My!

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    I just figured the way most people were saying "Belgian" that they were thinking Mals. ;)
     
  16. puppydog

    puppydog Tru evil has no pantyline

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    I know she didn't mean Mal. I still think of them as high drive dogs though.
     
  17. UniquityBelgians

    UniquityBelgians New Member

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    Hi everyone,

    Jake does not have a health problem, nor is his owner his breeder. Jake is a Canadian champion; He has his hips and elbows tested. I have tested his thyroid, there is nothing wrong with it. Jake is almost ten years old. He is confined while his owners are at work until evening, and is free-fed Ol' Roy and Pedigree (which he takes great advantage of). He does not go for walks; Just goes to the dog park once or twice a week. Of course he is overweight. I used to dogsit him years ago, for weeks at a time. He would consistently lose 3 lbs a week when I had him, simply from raw feeding and plenty of exercise. He is healthy and capable of losing weight.

    To me, a dog that has been living with such lack of exercise and poor nutrition, that is now nearly ten years old, so overweight, yet still has good hips/elbows, a good thyroid, can jump a 5 foot fence with ease, has absolutely no temeprament issues with people OR dogs even with his lack of socialisation, and has shown no signs of any allergies despite his crappy food.. To me, that is one DARN healthy dog, and I am proud to have him be the sire of my litter. I also can't get over how amazing his shoulders are for his weight all these years. This is a linebreeding that I have been wanting to do for a VERY long time. I know this pedigree very well -- it is a perfect match for my female, and the linebreeding is on some very very rare old lines. One of my goals in breeding is to improve the size of our gene pool. This is why I like using some of the oldest rarest lines I can find. I was originally planning to do the linebreeding with a different dog, but it didn't pan out. Still, I have considered this breeding for years... Weighing the pros and cons.. And it will be excellent. I have had the priveledge of knowing some of Jake's past offspring, littermates, his dam, and several half siblings. These are excellent dogs.
    My kennel name is linked to nothing; Jake is a retired show dog in a pet home. They are doing this as a favor to me for dogsitting him all those years. Nobody in the show world has met Jake in nearly 9 years. He finished at 18 months of age.



    As an update to my litter... Turns out Jake was making a liar out of me. On the last day, he naturally bred, RIGHT AFTER I AI'ed them. Darn dog. He would have had little, if any, semen left in his system after the AI. Hopefully he just helped push the little "sea men" to their destinations.... For once, Visa is growing a belly early on. I am hoping this means she will have a normal-sized litter. She is also digging a den, which she only does when she is pregnant. We're going to the vet tomorrow to confirm the pregnancy and get an idea of how many to expect. I am very excited!

    And here are some pictures of Jake..

    Jake at 6.5 years
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    A very old picture of Jake, finishing at 18 months:
    [​IMG]
    Recent shots of Jake at 9.5 years:
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Kat09Tails

    Kat09Tails *Now with Snark*

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    He's a pretty boy. Sometimes they just fool ya. lol
     
  19. UniquityBelgians

    UniquityBelgians New Member

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    Here are two recent show photos of momma Visa -- who has only gotten pudgy once in her life, and I basked in the glory of her pudginess, because it is will probably never happen again. Darn dog is nearly impossible to keep weight on.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And a couple shots at home..

    Hairless Visa..
    [​IMG]
    Hairy Visa... lol
    [​IMG]
     
  20. UniquityBelgians

    UniquityBelgians New Member

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    Visa usually breeds late too! Last litter she bred from days 18-26. This time she started standing earlier; I think it was day 14. She has never wanted to breed this early before. Honestly I think they didn't tie before because Jake knew it wasn't her time yet. Funny thing is, I sat him for a few days while she was in heat, until the day before she was standing. He was not interested in her in the least. Yet, he tied with her THE DAY she was due to ovulate. Interesting; I guess the old man knows a thing or two.
     

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