Sit pretty help

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by Laurelin, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Mia is hitting the target with both her front paws every time. I faded that out and replaced with my hand and she's hitting that each time. How do you go about fading the hand/target?

    I need her to do this on video in 2 weeks.
     
  2. Sekah

    Sekah The Monster.

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    Are you rewarding in position? Perhaps several treats provided rapidfire for as long as she maintains it?
     
  3. Oko

    Oko Silence, peasants.

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    I raised my hand until it was out of reach.
     
  4. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Yeah I'm rewarding in place while she'll hold it. If I move my hand back she tries a high five.

    I started this just capturing her doing it but she got confused and would mostly bounce onto her back legs (standing) about half the time or more. So hence the target being added in. She's very bouncy.
     
  5. Sekah

    Sekah The Monster.

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    Maybe try moving your hand less? Like, if you're trying to get it an inch away, try moving it only a fraction of an inch. Maybe pop rewards with both hands. Or just start requiring the position without paw interference?

    Would love to see some video to help troubleshoot.
     
  6. GingerKid

    GingerKid New Member

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    I started capturing Sit Pretty that way, but had the same problem, so I started from the beginning again, M/Ring every time Snowball lifted both his front feet off the ground even a tiny bit, and then a bit higher, etc. until he was in the position that I wanted. No rewards for trying to high-five me, to try to encourage this (which is what I'm after):
    [​IMG]

    But once they have that ^^ down you can mark/reward for moving front paws up higher until you get to this position or what you're after.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

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    With Kim, I am putting it on a verbal with stimulus control so my hand isn't the cue, it's just a prop. Ie. I can put my hand down and she'll sit til I say the sit pretty cue, then lift both front legs. The hope is that I can then just say the cue without my hand and mark/jackpot for a reflexive lift, and lock it in. She's still building the strength needed to support herself, though, and given her past back issue I'm playing it cautiously.

    With Mira I just free-shaped it, so not very helpful. And Webster "stands" -- I've never taught him a sit pretty since his stand is hilarious and extremely stable.
     
  8. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I'll definitely try to get a video of where we're at tomorrow so y'all can see what we're doing.
     
  9. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Here's where we're stuck. I included both ways I was going after this.

    And I realize watching the video now that I was missing some. It is SO HARD for me to see if she's standing or sitting from where I am because she's so small and hairy. A lot of times I thought she was standing when she wasn't.

    [YOUTUBE]ZbEzWfIYeAc[/YOUTUBE]
     
  10. Oko

    Oko Silence, peasants.

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    Okay from watching that I would say try to get your hand a little higher so she's not so much leaning on it as she is targeting it but balancing herself in the sit pretty, right now she's leaning really far forward. Also, I don't know how high value the treat you're giving her is or if she's that quick all the time (ah! Little dogs!) but maybe try using a lower value reward so she's not as excited/frantic and she takes things a little slower? Not sure if she has a slow setting though haha!
     
  11. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Mia has no slow setting. lol That is our lower value treat and that is actually a lot of pausing/thinking for her.

    I was trying to push my hand back a bit but I don't think it worked very well.

    We may have to stick to skateboarding for our videod trick.
     
  12. Sekah

    Sekah The Monster.

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    Yeah, your target placement/approach took me a little by surprise. When I do this trick with Mega I use a specific gesture that is the result of luring which has been really successful for me.

    Food goes in hand (or not). Close hand. Palm facing in, back of the hand towards your dog. Roll your hand up, into your wrist. Dog should follow lure, and the movement should be small enough/controlled enough for her to rock up and back into a beg.

    I think you're getting tripped up by having the target too far forward. And I didn't watch the whole video, but are you rewarding in position without the brace? That's how you'll slow her down and get her to maintain the position. That, or give her a stay or hold-it type of cue to help bridge the gap.
     
  13. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    What we did (working on it in class) was they started with an actual target and had them hitting it with both paws. I guess I just need to move the target up and back so she can't balance on it. I'll try that tonight.

    The second part was how I'd tried to just capture it initially before class without a lure or a target. But she does just seem to think 'Oh I bounce up really fast and get a cookie' vs sit up and hold it. Occasionally she will hold it a millisecond longer but I haven't seen much improvement (but we've not worked on it much at all). And after a few of these she starts just plain bouncing vs sitting and lifting her paws.
     
  14. Sekah

    Sekah The Monster.

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    I won't pretend to know everything about how to teach sit pretty, but to me teaching it as a paw target behaviour means that the priority for the dog is going to be the paws, not holding the upright position.
     
  15. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Yes I am pretty sure that is our issue. She is only thinking about the paws and not the sitting. When we are shaping it (end of video) without lures she is thinking about lifting the paws but it's so fast and short that I'm not sure how to progress. Haven't tried luring yet.
     
  16. Sekah

    Sekah The Monster.

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    For this thread and your hold one, this may help in adding duration to your behaviours.

    Reverse luring:

    [YOUTUBE]w_Muujzamqo[/YOUTUBE]
     
  17. SpaceMutt

    SpaceMutt Member

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    Astro took ages to learn this one. I was trying all kinds of different things, and getting kinda frustrated. I found the more he got to practice leaning forward or jumping into a stand, that was what he did, even if he wasn't getting rewarded for it.

    The only thing that worked (and I don't know if it'll help you because they're entirely different-shaped and different-thinking dogs), was using my arm as an upright brace, so that he never, ever got to tip forward. I held my forearm vertical, treat at the top, and brought it forward so that it was almost pressed against him. Any time he leapt up, I pulled back, and he couldn't lean forward because my arm was in the way.

    He learned to wrap his forelegs around my forearm and nibble at the treat while in the correct position, and I think that helped him build up the abdominal strength to later do it on his own. I faded the "prop arm" to just a luring hand, and then faded that to just a verbal signal. As I faded it I made sure that my hand with the treat was always right over top of him, never too far so that he thought he had to reach for it.

    I wish I had video of the process, but nope :(
     
  18. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    Well we've been working on this most days and I'm giving her my hand to target up higher so she's actually balancing. She just doesn't seem to know what to do without my hand being there. I definitely think we need to approach this in a different method than targetting.

    I decided just to use skateboarding as the video required trick. She picked that up fast.
     

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