Silver Labs

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silverbest

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What dog "deserves" to be bred? :confused:

Colour is one thing.

Just because the AKC (or whatever) says it is wrong, is bull crap.

If they turned around and said - hey - please can we just have HEALTHY dogs irrelevant of "mis marks" or wrong colours it would go a LONG way into BETTERING these poor poor breeds :mad:
Again have to agree!
 

Dizzy

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The gene pool is TINY enough for all these poor dogs - never mind making it SMALLER because foo foo has a black spot out of place, or is silver and not yellow.

Bettering the breed should be just that - making it better. Healthier. IMPROVING and INCREASING the gene pool. Breeding to ensure that the dog can do what it was ORIGINALLY bred for, and is healthy from genetic diseases (etc).

People do not breed "pet quality" dogs. OFTEN "pet quality" means - mismarked.

Ridiculous.

It is the most illogical thing I have ever come across :D
 

MomOf7

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This is basically the stand I am taking. I have read the links, and found some more on my own.
Every three coloured breeder bashes the silver, yet the silver breeders do not seem to do that in return. I find when someone feels the need to knock someone down, then normally it is because they are afraid of change. In some cases change is good.

The dogs are healthy, they are hip tested and guaranteed, so good for you and go for it.

Sorry if I am odd man out but it is the best I can come up with for now with the research I have done.
What your not getting is we arent bashing the color!!! Its the exclusive breeding of that color with no working certificates or show points. What are these dogs being bred for? COLOR! Thats all! Its rediculous!
It would be like me breeding for Fox Reds and ignoring clearances, lineage and talents
 
L

LabBreeder

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Well, since the other thread is closed i suppose i'll have to open a new one. This a response to Labreeder saying we were darn right rude in our e-mails to her, nothing can be further from the truth. If you wish i will post the e-mails that were sent, nothing rude. If you 3 colored breeders honestly think these silver labs look like weims you really have never genuinly seen one, my female is 80 lbs and looks nothing like a weim. Weims faces look to the point of being anorexic and trust me on this my female looks nothing like that. You all talk like
these beautiful creatures should be killed upon birth because it doesn't conform to the "medival" color schemes of the AKC. Look at her picture and tell me she is chocolate. Your higher than though mentality is disgusting. Labreeder you say we are not bettering the looks of the breed, maybe in your opinion, but we are still breeding Labradors to better the health. Does it really matter what color she is?? I will not descriminate based on color because she doesn't conform to your standards, she has the same temperment as my yellow and chocolate, just because she is silver she shouldn't be put out to pasture. On my site i never claimed a rare breed, she is silver and that is what she is. Ironically you all point to labbies.com to discredit the silvers but it seems to be the only site that does amongst perhaps another 1 or 2. The positives for the silvers seem to only come from Silver Lab breeders, so....who is right??? it's up to the customer to decide if he/she wants a silver and does there research. It's up to us to make sure health is as important as color. So maybe in your eyes i'm not bettering the look, but in my opinion it does.
I didn't say YOU were rude in the emails. I said THEY were rude with the response. Get it right!!! If you are "them" then you were rude and disrespectful.
 
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LabBreeder

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Thank you Saje for the words of wisdom. Apparently you can only come on here to bash Silvers and not defend yourself in any shape or form. Labreeder gave false information and i felt the need to correct her, i apologize if that causes you discomfort. I'm not here to cause a rucus but to defend the breed, last time i checked it was an open forum to the public to voice any concerns.
I did not give false information. If you wish to stay "anonymous" then don't send rude emails degrading people. There is no such thing as a silver Lab and you know it. Believe what you want, but since you apparently got the other thread closed down...you must have said something rude....you are still a poor breeder since you don't actually care to stick to breed standards. JMO, whether you like it or not. Doesn't give you the right to be rude.
 
L

LabBreeder

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Interesting in light of this:



These are the Continental Kennel Club standards:
http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/Ads.aspx?BreedNum=149

And the Canadian Kennel Club:
Anyone can register with Cont. Kennel Club apparently and their standards aren't what matter. What matters is the breeds parent club standards (and IMO AKC standards). Canadian K.C. I could care less about, cause I'm not in/from Canada. Either way, AKC and both CKC's say black, yellow and chocolate. Some just have a little more detail.
 

MomOf7

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Still no pedigree. What do you have to loose by posting the pedigrees?
I understand you wanting to be annonymous but you have put yourself out there. All I ask is for more info on your dogs. I could care less about the color.
 
L

LabBreeder

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Mom - Obviously this person's Labs have nothing decent in the pedigrees, probably have no health testing and may even be mixed with a Weimeraner. Otherwise, they should be more than happy to prove their dogs are as good as they say they are. JMO of course. :)
 

iheartsammy

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humm..I didn't read this whole thread, but that first link that was posted kinda bugs me. I mean I have no problem with any dog no matter what it looks like...but people who breed these dogs for no other reason other then "oh silver is a pretty color" isn't the right reason to breed a dog. But I know it has nothing to do with standard, because the dogs in that link where far off standerd it was really annoying... or at least from what I've seen a purebred lab look like... at dogs shows they are always shorter than I think they are! correct me if I'm wrong :p
 

MomOf7

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humm..I didn't read this whole thread, but that first link that was posted kinda bugs me. I mean I have no problem with any dog no matter what it looks like...but people who breed these dogs for no other reason other then "oh silver is a pretty color" isn't the right reason to breed a dog. But I know it has nothing to do with standard, because the dogs in that link where far off standerd it was really annoying... or at least from what I've seen a purebred lab look like... at dogs shows they are always shorter than I think they are! correct me if I'm wrong :p
There are 2 styles of labs. Show/bench and Field bred.
Actually 3 if you include BYBs and the garbage they produce that has a mix of no name dogs to very few distant titled dogs.
Conformation

Field
 

MayasMom

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This is so beyond pointless at this juncture. Go to the website and tell me i can advertise her as chocolate. That would be irresponsible and misleading which i will not do.
How would you be misleading people by advertising them as chocolate if that is the color they fall into according to the standards? It seems misleading to me to call them silver which is not the correct term. When someone goes to register them they will have to register the dog as chocolate. I also see no reason to price them higher because they are this color. Even if they are not being bred for conformation and just for the field or some type of job (which are also valid reasons), being silver does not make them better at it, so therefore what would make them worth more? From what I can tell you are only breeding for color, which is not a valid reason in my opinion.
What also concerns me is that you ship dogs and I see no mention on there of interviewing prospective owners or screening in any way for proper homes. What I do see is a buy now button that takes you directly to paypal. Most breeders that I have seen when researching the breed I want (boxers) have copies of their contract right on their website. It lays out what is expected of both the buyer and the breeder. Many also have a very long questionaire that you must fill out when sending an email to inquire about getting a puppy. Do you require people to return the dogs to you if they cannot keep them, do you have a spay/neuter agreement? Please do not take this as bashing, this is just not what I usually find when researching breeders.
 

Julie

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How would you be misleading people by advertising them as chocolate if that is the color they fall into according to the standards? It seems misleading to me to call them silver which is not the correct term. When someone goes to register them they will have to register the dog as chocolate. I also see no reason to price them higher because they are this color. Even if they are not being bred for conformation and just for the field or some type of job (which are also valid reasons), being silver does not make them better at it, so therefore what would make them worth more? From what I can tell you are only breeding for color, which is not a valid reason in my opinion.
What also concerns me is that you ship dogs and I see no mention on there of interviewing prospective owners or screening in any way for proper homes. What I do see is a buy now button that takes you directly to paypal. Most breeders that I have seen when researching the breed I want (boxers) have copies of their contract right on their website. It lays out what is expected of both the buyer and the breeder. Many also have a very long questionaire that you must fill out when sending an email to inquire about getting a puppy. Do you require people to return the dogs to you if they cannot keep them, do you have a spay/neuter agreement? Please do not take this as bashing, this is just not what I usually find when researching breeders.
But, the problem is they DO NOT fall into the standards.....they are disqualified for AKC events. Breeders should not purposely breed for a color especially a disqualifing color. :)
It is misleading no matter how the average pet owner looks at it.

Oh....... my gosh. Do they actually accept a paypal payment for a pup with no prior knowledge of the future owners? That is the BIGGEST red flag yet.
I didn't look at every page on the site........ but I am glad you pointed that out. Just confirms my "In it for the Money" concept.
 

peetee07

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Perhaps you should look at every page and not be a follower. There is NO PAYPAL anywhere on the site but if ya bothered to look on your own instead of taking joe shmos word for it ya might have noticed that on your own. God you people are unbelievable. Feels like a kiddie fight in grade 4...grow up.
 
L

LabBreeder

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Our little friend has been sending e-mails about how moronic and stupid I (and apparently the rest of us) are for saying silvers are not supposed to be bred. His "stud" Reese is only 9 months old!!! :eek: What does that say? The parent's are not titled and I've no idea about the other generations. I'm going to check and see if the parents were OFA/CERF tested. Sire - elbows: normal, hips: good. Dam - hips: good. No CERF done on either one.

Bear in mind this is from the parents of the 9 month old stud they have. Parents aren't titled, "stud" isn't titled (of course), disqualifying color, no CERF done on parents, "stud" to young for testing and may not even be worthy of breeding.
 

tempura tantrum

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People do not breed "pet quality" dogs. OFTEN "pet quality" means - mismarked.
I'd like to touch on this really quickly.

As far as Shibas go- a LOT more goes into deciding what "pet quality" is beyond just mismarks.

What is "ridiculous" is the assumption that good breeders would look at a SINGLE aesthetic factor as the reason for petting a dog out.

At least in my breed, a LOT more goes into it beyond that.

We're looking at FIRST AND FOREMOST excellent health (OFA, CERF, etc.) and proper temperament. No matter HOW beautiful a dog is, it isn't worth the time of day if it fails the first two requirements. From there proper angulation, good feet, appropriate size, correct tail set and length, lovely headpiece, good coat TEXTURE (more important than color), and yes, coat color itself.

If a dog posesses the most important characteristics I'm willing to overlook some "minor" flaws (after all- all dogs have them!)

For example: There isn't a correctly marked red sesame in this NATION. (We're still trying to convince the Japanese breeders to let us have a great one...but no luck yet...they're basically priceless). Most of the "sesame" dogs you see are in actuality, mismarked reds- but their other qualities are SO outstanding, that they're worthy of breeding. Correct color is important- but not at the EXPENSE of everything else. And we certainly wouldn't cut an outstanding dog from a breeding program because of a smattering of black hairs on his shoulders.

There IS a color we disqualify from the ring completely. White Shibas are no longer accepted. This is partially due to historical reasons (which I won't get into here unless people really want to know), but also because we found that these dogs had considerably more skin/allergy issues (as well as weaker immune systems), than Shibas in the "traditional" colors.

We don't just breed for "pretty."

What everyone here is getting at is that to breed EXCLUSIVELY for ANY ONE trait is to court certain disaster. And THAT is what worries most people about the majority of silver Lab breeders. A lot of them are looking at color as THE ONE factor that decides a dog's suitability for breeding, and this IMO, is a FAR greater crime than simply disqualifying a single color.

One particularly poignant example I'm thinking of involves a local breeder of Malamutes in my area. This breeder made it a point to tout her dogs enormous size. (Over two times the standard- and often these dogs were achieving such weights at 6 months of age). It became apparent that this was her SOLE selling point. Does it surprise anyone to know that the local Malamute rescue has more of HER dogs than anyone else? That to date- she has sold dogs that have KILLED family members?

And this in a breed that is RENOWNED for it's friendly, people-loving temperament.

When you breed for ONE trait to the EXCLUSION of all else you ARE screwing yourself. We do NOT breed in a vacuum. Traits that have seemingly NO connection to one another phenotypically (eg: size and temperament), may in fact be inextricably linked by genes.

(Remember "rage syndrome" in the reddish Cockers a few years back???)

Consider the total package, or do the dog world a favor, and refrain from breeding.
 

MayasMom

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Are you kidding me?? I purchased our yellow for $900 so the price is not that outrageous..hell i've seen labs gouing for $2000. Ya know what though you are right about one thing they are getting something special. If ya think they are not in demand try getting one from silverlabs.com.....i tried there is a 1 year waiting list.
I went to silverlabs.com. I'm sorry what is your website then. This is the only one I saw you mention, so that is where I went. Maybe you should not tell people to look at another website which such irresponsible breeding practices if you are trying to prove your point.
 

MayasMom

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But, the problem is they DO NOT fall into the standards.....they are disqualified for AKC events. Breeders should not purposely breed for a color especially a disqualifing color. :)
It is misleading no matter how the average pet owner looks at it.
QUOTE]

Sorry I only meant that if they registered the dog it would have to be registered as chocolate even though they can't show it. I do realize it is a disqualification. But you're right, either way it is misleading.
 
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