Siberian Husky or Wolf Hybrid?????

[inverness22]

Hello, everyone!

I am new to the forum. On Wednesday, I acquired a new three year old red "Siberian husky." I have serious doubts as to the pureness of this dog despite the AKC papers he has stating that he is a red Siberian. He has the blue eyes and the curled up tail, but other than that I am more inclined to think he is arctic/alaskan wolf in there somewhere. Just FYI, Siberian Huskies are not considered part wolf. They are a pure breed all their own.

This dog is much larger at the withers than what the AKC standard specifies. Rather than 23 1/2 inches max, (roughly two feet) he is more like 2 1/2-3 feet tall. His hair is very coarse but short. The legs are, without a doubt, wolflike. He has no hair fringe on his face to speak of. I am going to try to post pictures of him at the end of this message.

My main concern is the dog's propencity to growl when he sleeps on our bed. It seems he has chosen to dominate the bed and though he curled up next to me with his back in my stomach, he would not tolerate my touching him without a deep, throaty growl and a warning bark. I have a Samoyed and they pretty much split the dominant acts equally. They just exist around on another now except for when one gets too close to the other's foodbowl. FYI, the Siberian has 22 teeth on the bottom row juxtaposet to the 16-20 of "dogs."

The obvious answer to the growling problem, since it only seems to ocur in bed, is to keep him off of the bed. I am concerned with the possibility that he can turn on a dime and bite without warning or with little time between the warning bark and the strike. There are many characteristics he has that are pure Siberian (sleeping like his spine's a slinky) and purely wolf (the way he carries his tail when agitated).

Can anyone tell from my pictures at http://www.angelfire.com/wi3/fluffnuggets/malamutessiberians
whether or not this is possibly a wolf hybrid? The people we got him from gave him up because he was nipping at their newborn like an adult dog does when correcting a puppy. I've only had him a few days and am focusing on assertion (as in pack mentality) to emerge as the alpha.

Thanks-
Jenn

 

[sharpeilover]

have u got any more pictures of him standing up so we can see all of the body.

 

[inverness22]

Re: Siberian or Hybrid? Body Shots Posted on Website

http://www.angelfire.com/wi3/fluffnuggets/malamutessiberians

The dog is not at all "high-strung." I am careful about stereotyping any breed, but there is no hyperactivity in this dog. Keep in mind, he is three years old...he should still have puppy-like energy going on. The dog is silent, watchful, and very calculating. This morning I was playing with my Samoyed (tug-of-rope) and Murphy bolted across the room, hair raised, in attack. I was fortunate to get them apart. The samoyed went into his cage and when the Pom came over to see what the matter was he attacked him. The entire personality of my Samoyed is changing. The PH is off. I truly believe this dog, hybrid or not, is NOT the dog for me or my "litter." I have contacted the people from where he came and am in the process of making arrangments for a better home. I still need opinions in case the original owner takes him back. She has the children in her home. I believe what I saw with the Samoyed is what they saw with their children.

 

[Renee750il]

Inverness, all I get when I follow your link is a page of code. Can you post his photo in the members' galleries?

It might be a good option to contact the breeders the original owners got him from. Whatever he is, he sounds like a dog who definitely needs a very strong owner and to be either the only dog or with dogs that are at least as large and strong as he is, if not more so.

I hope Love4Pits sees this thread; she's a professional musher and very expert with Sibes.

 

[Love4Pits]

hmm tough one. For the most part he resembles a SH with his head and body build (other then size). Yes his legs are wolflike but I have had a few SH's that had those same legs and they were for sure pure breds. SH's also can have a course coat depending on the dog with it being short they can get that as well their coat type can vary not saying it is always accepted by the AKC.

His face is very Husky but is size is a tough one I have yet to have a husky that big. You could try to have your vet evaluate him and your vet may be able to tell you their opinion on his breed. He could be a wolf hybrid when I was a child my father brought home a Siberian Husky/Wolf hybrid named Coyote. He was a bigger dog but really sweet. I doubt his dominence issues are from him being a hybrid IF he is in fact one he could possibly be a large husky but itsits not that common atleast around here. I would'nt let him sleep on the bed if he growls at you and is in with in biting distance until he learns some manners.

Also is he neutered? That may be best for his bad attitude yet i have had a dog in the passed which was neutered thinking it would mellow out his aggressive behaviour but for Willy it did'nt really help out at all.

 

[joce]

He looks more like an alaskan husky. Maybe it is a cross between that and a big sibe. A lot of sibes have dominance issues and I have seen them in many many different sizes and looks. They are so overbred up here that some of them are just plain nutty(I don't blame them thouugh).Can't you ask for dna tests with akc dogs? If you are really worried about it try it. I think what you are explaining is normal husky behavior. Ours was calm indoors the day she hit two. She will all of a sudden go after the other dogs too. Maybe try contacting a sibe rescue that you can get to work with the people you are returning him too. He might be a dog that needs to work.

 

[Love4Pits]

I agree with Joce as well i did'nt think of it before but he could very well be a SH, AH cross. i think a dna test would be the best way to go.

 

[inverness22]

Update on Murphy

First of all, I'm an inept moron with computers when I'm upset. When I built that page w/ the pics I didn't end it in .html....so some browsers couldn't view it. If you axs http://www.angelfire.com/wi3/fluffnuggets/malamutessiberians.html you should not have trouble now.

The Alaskan mix occured to me. The reason I asked about the wolf hybrid is because my husband had a buffalo wolf/samoyed at one point in time and this dog exhibits characteristics very much like that one did. We contacted the breeder from the AKC papers (thank God she didn't move) and the breeder admitted to being a poor breeder and making a lot of mistakes. They only bred two litters, the second one resulted in some kind of milk toxicity problem. The breeder tried to say that is what has caused the greyhound body. I was inclined to think he can't hold weight because wolves systems can't process dog food--it passes through him. Hence, the thinness. Whatever the case, the breeder agreed to take him and get him neutered. She says she is planning to utilize him in mushing. I think with the right facility and time and chemistry, the dog certainly could be a great racer--a lead dog...but that's not here. It is not fair to the samoyed. I love the dog in him but I do not trust the other part...it's like living with a schizophrenic animal.

And so, tomorrow morning I leave for a town 2 hours away to dump off my dog. This crap sucks and I am more than upset. I called the people we got him from to ask their opinion and they basically washed their hands of him. The woman was oh, so concerned at first about him coming here, she e mailed and called all through the first day...so I start taking web pix and sending updates and I get an e mail she meant for her mother insulting my house but complimenting us as people??? I faced her with that on phone and e mail, she backtracked, and now she wants nothing to do with Murphy whatsoever...

Happy f*cking Saturday

 

[bubbatd]

I'm so sorry for you. If this pup is registered I would say it's a poor breeding. What a shame for the pup and people who only want a good dog for them !!

 

[Renee750il]

The good thing is that you know where Murphy is going. He will undoubtedly be much happier with work to do. Some dogs are so intense that they just can't tolerate a life of leisure. You tried, but from your description it's very apparent that he wasn't the right dog for you. It really didn't sound like a safe situation. But you tried, and you aren't "dumping" him. I honestly don't see that you did anything other than make the best possible decision in a rotten situation. ((hugs))

I don't really think he looks like anything more than a rather leggy Sibe out of an inexperienced breeder. And as far as the wolfdogs not being able to digest dog food, well, I find that a hard bit of the wolfdog mythology to swallow. Bimmer thrives on Innova dog food. It's probably got more to do with the lousy quality of most commercial dog foods than anything else.
Do something nice for yourself after your pilgrimage. Get yourself a lovely pint of Godiva chocolate ice cream and don't share it with anyone! And have a good cry while you look at your photos of Murphy.

By the way, it's interesting that you named him Murphy. Ever heard of Bridie Murphy?

 

[inverness22]

Sunday MOANing

Hello everyone & Renee--

Murphy was pretty good last night because we're locking up every other living thing we own for their own safety. He is very, very happy when he is the only thing at my side.

Some musher told me that bit about dog food and wolves. My husband's wolf hybrid also would pass (with a HUGE mess) regular dog food. On the advice of Jack Lynch, the guy who had the last of the classic buffalo wolves out west, he was going out after roadkill, buying hamburger to mix with a very high protein/low grain (Expensive!) food so the dog could eat and pass normally. As time went by the hybrid got on better and had higher tolerances for regular dog food. Maybe it's one of these things you see from time to time that people credit to all hybrids? I don't know. It could change with the percent of wolf that's in the mix.

I just know that right now, whatever Murphy is, he is just not right for us like you said and this morning he is going to a better place. I keep telling myself that to ease the pain and guilt I feel. I know Siberians can be naturally aggressive and possessive and maybe that is just what we have in him along with bad specs from questionable breeding stock. The breeder admitted to getting Murphy's mother from a dog rescue mission and could not give lineage for this dog's mother's side. IF there is wolf in him, I am willing to bet now that his mother was somehow Alaskan and that is where it enters the fray. She was also red, like Murphy, and the breeder said very, very aggressive--a known cat-killer.

Eventually, I will get another Siberian. But I know what questions to ask now that I've had Murphy. I plan to request papers going back four generations, I want to meet the parents and know about the grandparents of the puppy, their temperments, etc. in addition to the normal stuff you expect from breeders.

I really wish the AKC would get off their asses and police what is being registered. It isn't enough to send in a form they approve. My vet hates the AKC because he's seen German Shepherds with Dacshund legs and tail that have AKC papers stating they are full blood German Shepherds. That was a really long rant the afternoon I asked about the importance of registering our animals. He basically said the only good those papers do is to prove you spent a ton of money and to OK your dog for breeding whether it is good stock or not. I was like, woah. I thought they were these wealthy, strict, champion-like people, you know? That's what the Eukanuba dog show would have you believe.

I love all snow dogs and it really irks me to see how the Siberian breed is being desecrated (SP?) for the sake of faster sled dogs or whatever qualities it is they want to mix in. When you go to the races, you still see your Sibes, Mals, and the occasional Sammy, but those Alaskans are becoming more and more common. Whoever said what they are mixing with Sibes is nutty was right--no offense to Alaskan owners out there...but I never plan to run the Iditarod so they just aren't my cup of morning tea. How can you take something as graceful, beautiful, and breath-taking as a Siberian and mix a Greyhound or a Weimareimer (SP!!!!?) in there?!?!

I prefer the traditional.

When I first saw Murphy I thought, THAT is not like ANY Siberian I have ever seen...and despite my gut instinct, I took him in to give him a try. I fell in love with the dog characteristics while I was standing in the owner's kitchen. As he became more acclimated to our home, the other things showed up--in this case, over night. I still love him, Alaskan or not, wolf or not, because for three very short days--1 1/2 of those good-ish days--he was MY dog.

I'm just sorry any of this has ever had to happen to him. He is being displaced so much--first by the two children of the previous owner, then by leaving their home for ours, and now with leaving us for the farm up north. The dog is clingy and this will make him worse--he's going to always expect to be left behind.

Regardless of everything my common sense says about this dog, I feel like I didn't do enough to make him a better animal.

Jen

 

[Love4Pits]

Good for you and Murphy and im glad that you feel for the Siberian Husky breed. Good luck to you and Murphy in the future by looking at him I could see him making a great sled dog. With those legs and size he would make a great wheel or swing dog in my opinion. I seriousely hate the AKC everytime they recognize a dog breed it gets ruined with in a matter of a few years aka unresponsible breeding. I hate what has happened to this breed in the past years. I was born and raised on a Siberian Husky breeding/sled training/ presorvation ranch and have grown up to have one of my own. I live for the protection and betterment of this breed and I think im one of the few out there that don't carelessly breed. Anyways back to you im sure theres a SH out there for you their awsome sweet loving dogs and only one is like having three three year olds running around lol if they don't have anything to do. Good luck once again to you and murphy

 

[inverness22]

A Happy Ending for All

Murphy went home around 11AM today. He remembered the scents and sounds, and when the breeder came in with his mother he remembered mama, as well.

It's comforting that Murphy will be with his mom. I always felt bad for puppies taken from their mother, especially when human beings are such jack*$$es to animals and can't take care of themselves let alone a young pup. Murphy and mom were licking each other's faces and sniffing. It was a happy reunion--Murphy was happier there than he was here or where he was living before here. I am so glad that breeder no longer breeds "Siberians!"

Murphy had his mother's nose....*sniff...*

The dogs and cats in my household have returned to normal. I am washing Murphy's pillow so my Sam and Pom can share it. They share everything--Samoyeds are my favorite breed and will always remain so even if I do indeed get a Siberian puppy.

I thank everyone for their support through this trying and emotional period of time. Animals leave such an impact on our lives..

Renee--I didn't name Murphy, his previous owners did. We were going to rename him Czar Viktor...

Take care,

Jenn

 

[Renee750il]

Jenn, thanks so much for letting us know things turned out so well for Murphy. I hope you stay around on a regular basis and tell us about your other critters!

I'd bet that when you want another Sibe, Love4Pits will be a big help to you with what to look for if you go to a breeder, or if you decide to go with a rescue and a more mature dog.

 

[kellysue]

husky wolf

Hi I just joined and read your post on your husky. I have a husky wolf and yours sounds much like mine. My girl is 24 inches at the withers, norm for a female is 20 inches. She has blue eyes and curly tail but she is very muscular,sensitive stomach, great with my son he is 11 but wants to eat any animal that is smaller and not part of the pack. She is an omega female, they like to intervene when there is a conflict. I have never seen her show agression to people, although you have to talk to her before you touch her when she sleeps. Her favorite thing to do is hunt. She does not like to be locked up or left alone. if we leave her alone my house will be distroyed...lol She is wolf gray in color double coat, white face very pretty. She reconizes my husband as the alpha, she becomes very submissive when he talks to her.
(she pees) that is a sign of submission. She is very possesive of me, follows me to the bathroom, always wants to go bye bye, sleeps outside my bedroom door, no matter where i sit she is right there. She does not bark but talks or howels. If this sounds like your dog you may very well have a husky wolf. But dont be afraid just read up on wolf dogs and enjy yours they are great.
Kellysue

 

[my own dogs]

I cant see a wolf or wolfdog in your dog ?!

I own a reg/pedigree wolfdog and my wolfdog are a big and
beatiful. ( in my country so registred we some wolfdogs in a wolfdog union. )
your dog I think are a breed-cross dog with 2 different spitz dogs.
not a wolfdog !
your dog are very small, low high and short back to. wolfdogs have long back and they are big dogs. my own wolfdog are a big girl, she is
more bigger even a great pyrenees or st.bernhard.
in my country there I live are wolfdogs very big and high
so I think your dog are a ordinary cross breed dog.

 

[oc_spirit]

That does not look like a hybrid to me at all. Siberian HUskies are very dominant dogs and will step up to the plate if they dont believe the humans they live with are very good leaders. To me your dog looks like a racing-line of Siberian Husky. I hope things have worked out for you guys!

 

[Miakoda]

He does seem to be like a SH/AH cross.

Here are some true working Alaskan Huskies.

 

[AnimalLoverCatRescuer]

guys this thread is ancient, the user isn't even around anymore
people gotta start lookin at the dates

 

[oc_spirit]

Miakoda, your pics arent showing for me I'm curious to see those dogs! Whats in them?