Shock (E-collars)

Discussion in 'Dog Training Forum' started by MarieG, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. MarieG

    MarieG THE Dog Class

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    I am looking for some research articles on the use of shock collars in dog training. Not just anecdotal reviews (or "In my opinion), but some scientific studies of the effectiveness versus other methods. Anyone know of any? Thanks.

    Marie
    THEDogClass
     
  2. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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  3. Lolas Dad

    Lolas Dad New Member

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    This is a good find. Thanks for the link.

    From Conclusions and recommendations

    So with the above being painful and fearful to a dog why would anyone want to use one?
     
  4. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Thanks, I should have posted it before, been in my fav's for sometime now. And I print it off and give it to people instead of debating e-collars, let the research prove it :)
     
  5. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    I really like that article (thanks for posting it) just wish it had less bias in the paper. It gives people who want to hang onto their e collars an 'out'.
     
  6. Maura

    Maura New Member

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    Why would anyone want to use one? I always seem to read that one should use a shock collar because nobody has the time to use real training. Sad, don't you think, considering your dog is going to be with your for ten or more years.
     
  7. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    There have been MANY lengthy discussions about the pros and cons of e-collars on this forum.... I hope we can keep this thread on topic and not re-hash all of those discussions again. ;)
     
  8. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    the people that want to "hang" on to their ecollars have an out, because that paper is very biased, it can hardly be called scientific, and a scientific mind can see it accounts for very few variables, and those handlers who had fearful dogs could easily end up with dogs like that without the collars. But i guess that can be ignored when your only bias is to prove how evil ecollars are.

    again, I put my use of the collar on here long ago. And somebody wants to tell me I don't do "real" training with my dogs? I'd love to see yours
     
  9. Tsume'sMom

    Tsume'sMom New Member

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    Very one sided with limited "study" group.

    Yes the collars can be used for horried things, but they can also be used properly to have a happy, stable, well mannored, off lead dog.

    Equipment is not good or bad (IMO) it is the human behind it that makes it so.

    I would be interested to see if anyone can find a "study" that supports the proper use and training with these collars and the end result.
     
  10. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Actually you DO get those results with 'proper' use. Just sit and really watch an e collar trained dog work. They do show lowered ears (compared to when not working) Dogs trained with lots of leash corrections do the same though. Its not the e collar per se, but punishment based training that makes dogs show signs of stress.

    Even people who do use these methods that I know will admit that it does stress the dogs some. They just feel that the stress is worth the 'faster' results.

    I was not against them till I saw them in actual and regular (and yes proper) use.

    This study would be fine if the writing style showed less bias.

    (and yes I would show you mine...RTH)
     
  11. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Agreed it is bias, but then I would love to challenge anyone that is pro e-collar to post a research paper that has been published to counter it. Anyone??
     
  12. Criosphynx

    Criosphynx New Member

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    *crickets*
     
  13. Tsume'sMom

    Tsume'sMom New Member

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    Maybe the people who use them are happy with their dogs and don't feel the need to spend time trying to change the minds of people who will never change their opinions on their choice training method.

    I don't push my chosen training methods on anyone, nor to I feel the need to justify my well mannored four-legged best friend.

    Challenging someone to prove that their training method works for them and their dog is just looking to pick a fight or start a debate that has been beaten to death on every dog fourm on the internet.

    There will never be just one end all say all of animal training, and anyone who thinks so does a great disservice to the animals that land in their care. Use what works best for your dog, because a trained dog will not die unwanted in the shelter.
     
  14. MarieG

    MarieG THE Dog Class

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    Sorry. Wasn't looking to stir up a national debate. Was just looking for research on the topic.
     
  15. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    i've put up video a couple times. that pretty much refutes every claim this "research" paper has made.

    but i am not "pro" ecollar. I just hate it when I see junk paraded as some sort of proof then repeated and repeated and repeated like it's some sort of truth.
     
  16. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    Why does it require proof? How could shocking a dog with electricity of any kind be a kind way to treat an animal? Why is the concept of proof even necessary? It's only natural and logical that a living being would be hurt or down trodden in some way by electric shock. What is wrong with people?

    I couldn't do that to the animals I love. It would break my heart to see them receiving that for the sake of "training." If one can't train an animal with gentleness, then don't train them....don't have them.
     
  17. release the hounds

    release the hounds Active Member

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    How can withholding food be considered training ? or putting a free animal in a cage? or putting a leash and collar around their neck?, or not letting them mate with every other dog they see?, as it is just nature doing it's thing.

    You don't have to use one, or even like it, but jeez, when crap is put up as "proof" and you have people puking up info that is crap as "proof" and there have been examples of animals that don't display any of the dire warnings we're always given, what should we all do? Just fall in, step in line and repeat after you?
     
  18. Doberluv

    Doberluv Active Member

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    YES! Exactly. I think you're finally getting it.:cool:
     
  19. TheGoldenRetriever

    TheGoldenRetriever New Member

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    I couldn't either. As for the choices of others, well it's THEIR dog. It just won't be any of mine.

    I did find an article written by a user and advocate of e-collars. Some highlights of it:

    ** Admits e-collars are ideal for people who can't/don't want to spend more time using other training methods.

    ** Suggests the use of euphemisms to label shock collars anything other than what they are, to both quell objections from others and to "...help you think about it another way."

    ** Admits that most using e-collars use the highest level shock that a dog can tolerate. (To his credit, he uses the very lowest.)

    And one thing I found very disturbing:

    ** Claims e-collars are not just for "hard" tempered dogs, but that the "softest" temperament dogs can be trained with them.
    (Ummm sure ... if the goal is to create submissive urination.)

    Here's a link to the article:
    Dr. P's Dog Training: The Electronic Collar
     
  20. adojrts

    adojrts New Member

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    Pardon me, but all I did was provide what the OP REQUESTED, regardless of whether YOU agree with it or not, regardless of whether someone thinks it is bias. Again, at least give something to counter it, that IS published and leave the personal opinions aside. I am sure that the OP would like to have more than one referance to base an opinion on.
    Personally I am not going to spend my money purchasing articles on it that are published online......... they are out there, just go read the abstracts, but you'll only get a taste or feel of the article and not the conclusions.

    To the OP, not wanting a National Debate? How could you post such as request on a dog forum and not expect it turn into one? When this is such a highly debated and heated topic?

    Tsume'sMom
    I did not challenge the training methods, I challenged anyone to provide a link to an article to refute the one that I posted, since some didn't like it or thought it was bias.

    Unless anyone has missed it, I have not given a personal opinion on any method :D
     

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